Can you Tow using the Tiedown?

JCranford

JCranford

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Another thread was discussing different towbars etc. Someone mentioned using an electric boat winch with a wireless remote to pull the plane into the hanger using the tail tiedown.

I would assume the tiedown on the tail (of a 182 if it's relevant) is strong enough to be used to tow the plane backwards 30 ft.

Is it??
 
JCranford said:
Another thread was discussing different towbars etc. Someone mentioned using an electric boat winch with a wireless remote to pull the plane into the hanger using the tail tiedown.

I would assume the tiedown on the tail (of a 182 if it's relevant) is strong enough to be used to tow the plane backwards 30 ft.

Is it??
Click to expand...

Yes..
 
JCranford said:
Another thread was discussing different towbars etc. Someone mentioned using an electric boat winch with a wireless remote to pull the plane into the hanger using the tail tiedown.

I would assume the tiedown on the tail (of a 182 if it's relevant) is strong enough to be used to tow the plane backwards 30 ft.

Is it??
Click to expand...

Nice flat ramp or one with an unfortunate incline? That makes a real difference.
 
Never done it, I would probably feel uncomfortable doing so.

Last year a 182 popped a front tire on the runway after landing and I couldn't figure out how to move it without ruining his wheel pants. Eventually got some guys to help out with a forklift and a pallet luckily. After the fact, one of the mechanics here suggested tying the tail tiedown to the tug to lift the nose off the ground and tow backwards off the runway.

Seems like a good idea in theory but I don't think it was designed for that in practice, sounds like a pinch move.
 
If a tiedown is not strong enough to roll an airplane across nearly flat ground, will it be strong enough to hold the airplane in place when it's tied down?
 
overdrive148 said:
Never done it, I would probably feel uncomfortable doing so.

Last year a 182 popped a front tire on the runway after landing and I couldn't figure out how to move it without ruining his wheel pants. Eventually got some guys to help out with a forklift and a pallet luckily. After the fact, one of the mechanics here suggested tying the tail tiedown to the tug to lift the nose off the ground and tow backwards off the runway.

Seems like a good idea in theory but I don't think it was designed for that in practice, sounds like a pinch move.
Click to expand...

The tail tie down is meant to hold it down in a storm.
 
Eye bolts are designed for tension loads, not shear. I have no idea what the airframe attachment looks like but I'd find out before I used it as a tow point.
 
The safest place I think it'd be to pull on is the gear, especially the mains if you're pulling backwards. Pushing aircraft over hangar door rails can be very bumpy and from the looks of it, put a lot of stress on towing point. If you jarred the aircraft while the wheels were going over the rails and it was on the tail tiedown you might tear it off. Completely speculatory though. The mains are at least built for that kind of abuse.
 
JCranford said:
Another thread was discussing different towbars etc. Someone mentioned using an electric boat winch with a wireless remote to pull the plane into the hanger using the tail tiedown.

I would assume the tiedown on the tail (of a 182 if it's relevant) is strong enough to be used to tow the plane backwards 30 ft.

Is it??
Click to expand...

I've done it hundreds of time with no ill effects.
 
Stewartb said:
Eye bolts are designed for tension loads, not shear.
Click to expand...
:yes:

I just can imagine the "pop" and explicit words that come after.



I wouldn't do it.

I've used the stinger of my 185, used the cleats on the floats, towed from the nose gear of a 150,AA1,206,207,208,PA28 etc, but a tie down ring...

Why not just use a tow bar, or attach to the landing gear somehow?
 
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The POH for my Bonanza says no. It doesn't explain why, it just says don't do it. I suspect it is due to the shear load on the airframe rather than the strength of the eye. But the Bonanza is a heavy bird. Maybe with lighter airplanes it would be ok.
 
JOhnH said:
The POH for my Bonanza says no. It doesn't explain why, it just says don't do it. I suspect it is due to the shear load on the airframe rather than the strength of the eye. But the Bonanza is a heavy bird. Maybe with lighter airplanes it would be ok.
Click to expand...

Maybe the Bo is built with mag sheet, and it cracks easily.
 
If I had a nickel for every time this topic came up for debate, I'd be rich.
lol

The best one is: "Is it safe to pull the plane out by pulling on the prop, nearest the spinner?"
;-)
 
Jay Honeck said:
If I had a nickel for every time this topic came up for debate, I'd be rich.
lol

The best one is: "Is it safe to pull the plane out by pulling on the prop, nearest the spinner?"
;-)
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Meh, that's a little diffrent.
 
Something to consider is that the tail tiedown isn't the only thing holding the plane on the ramp. It's load sharing with two other points.
 
Done it many times with a 182. It was the only way I could get the airplane back in the hangar in the winter if there was ice on the ground.
 
The biggest problem I can see is getting the nosewheel to track straight and/or steer. Unless you plan on steering it yourself with the tow bar.
 
If you put a towhook between the eyebolt and fuselage you can apply 1200 lbs of shear. I think you'll be fine.
 
tonycondon said:
If you put a towhook between the eyebolt and fuselage you can apply 1200 lbs of shear. I think you'll be fine.
Click to expand...

But that towhook is connected under the base of the eyebolt, not at the aftmost part of the eye itself, which is about an inch below the fuselage surface. And towhooks often use further attachments ahead of the eyebolt as well. The tow rope itself has a breakable link that lets go at 200 pounds, so a 1200-pound load is never there.

On level smooth ground the eye will take it. That eyebolt is intended to hold the airplane down more or less vertically, and the design of the bolt and the bulkhead it's attached to will attest to that. Pulling hard on it on a steeper slope or on rough ground could place enough bending strain on it to distort the bolt itself within the bukhead, and sometimes the bulkhead will crack. Tailstrikes will do that same sort of thing just by dragging back on the eye. Sometimes the anchor nut in the bulkhead pops loose, and they are absolutely no fun to replace unless you take the fin and stab off, and that's a job, too.
 
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Just to clarify, Im not going to tow the plane across a cornfield behind my 4X4. Im going to pull it backwards 30 ft into the hanger across smooth 2* sloped concrete...

Because its Texas, in the summer, and any undue exertion this time of year sucks

:D
 
Tow rope weak links do not let go at 200 lbs. In the US weak link strength is based on glider gross weight (80-200%) or whatever the flight manual says.

Cessna drawing attaches only through the eyebolt and has a max tension allowed of 1200lbs.
 
You have those nice tough spring steel mains on that C182, why don't you go buy a flat tow strap from Wally World, two carabiners and attach that strap to the mains by wrapping the strap around and carabinering it to itself, one end of the strap to the right, one end of the left, attach your winch line to that strap, simple, fast and super strong.
 
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James331 said:
You have those nice tough spring steel mains on that C182, why don't you go buy a flat tow strap from Wally World, two carabiners and attach that strap to the mains by wrapping the strap around and carabinering it to itself, one end of the strap to the right, one end of the left, attach your winch line to that strap, simple, fast and super strong.
Click to expand...

Thats actually Plan B!
 
What Tony says, Cessna's generally are certified to install a Tow hook rated for 1200lbs. These just screw into the the tail tiedown on every one I have seen. (tri-gear)

Brian
 
Sac Arrow said:
The biggest problem I can see is getting the nosewheel to track straight and/or steer. Unless you plan on steering it yourself with the tow bar.
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Yeah you must steer it. thus the RC or a long wired switch.
 
Tom-D said:
Yeah you must steer it. thus the RC or a long wired switch.
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Ya, for sure. Our hanger is a little tight anyway. No way would I try to just winch it in there. Plan was for wireless remote and steer with the tow bar.
 
JCranford said:
Ya, for sure. Our hanger is a little tight anyway. No way would I try to just winch it in there. Plan was for wireless remote and steer with the tow bar.
Click to expand...

That's the best, however make sure your wireless system defaults to 'off' on loss of signal.
 
In the many thousands of threads here and on several other chat groups, never have I seen 'I towed my plane and broke the tiedown/damaged the fuselage'.

Just an incomplete review of past opinions; not proof. But perhaps additional useful information.

And when someone finds such a post, we must then consider the circumstances of the provided info...and also how it looks against the background of years of no such posts.
 
When I was in a club with a TB200, it was winched in by it's tail tie down.
 
James331 said:
:yes:

I just can imagine the "pop" and explicit words that come after.



I wouldn't do it.

I've used the stinger of my 185, used the cleats on the floats, towed from the nose gear of a 150,AA1,206,207,208,PA28 etc, but a tie down ring...

Why not just use a tow bar, or attach to the landing gear somehow?
Click to expand...

I love it!!
 
I would not tow via the tail tie down eyelet. Get some friends to help or a powered device from the nosewheel.
 
A friend based at our airport damaged his 182 doing exactly what you are talking about doing. Its not some anecdote, I saw the damage myself. The tail had to be disassembled and rebuilt, not cheap. The tie down and the portion of the airframe are not designed to have force applied at a 90 degree shear angle to the tail, but more of a downward, tension, angle when tied down. The winch can apply enough force without warning to bend things.

But hey someone else did it and didn't break anything, so what do I know.
 
Necro thread but I’ll play anyway.

Unless explicitly approved by the manufacturer, towing by the tail tiedown is a bad idea. As long as the towing force vector is perfectly aligned with the centerline of the plane you’re probably okay, but as soon as you get a bit misaligned or make a turn the vector goes across the fuselage. When there’s enough force (think about stopping, or going over a bump) there’s a chance of distorting the airframe if you don’t rip off the tiedown first.

Bad juju. Don’t do it.
 
n2230b said:
I love it!!
Click to expand...
I appreciate that this was the post to revive the necro and make it past the "I understand this thread is hundreds of years old, but my contribution warrants revival" gatecheck

Lazarus be proud.
 
That tiedown ring is an eyebolt. The "head" of the bolt is of small diameter, and lateral forces in any direction can bend the bolt and drive that now-bent head into the metalwork, and it can bend or break the flange of the aluminum bulkhead that it runs through. Tailstrikes on the runway do the same thing, bending the bolt back or sideways.

This is the tail bulkhead for a 172, similar to a 182's:

upload_2022-7-15_16-54-43.jpeg

You're looking aft at the inside of it. Bottom is on the right. The eyebolt goes through the larger hole there, between the two rivet holes. Strong enough, but jamming that eyebolt head into its underside does it no good.

Towing on a level, smooth surface shouldn't be a problem, but any obstructions could result in a little too much bending force. Airplanes that tow banners or gliders have a reinforcing structure in the tail, and the tow hook is built for lots of lateral pull.
 
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