Can we start a new ritual?

[Pi1otguy]

Since gas cans may be far and in between, the Clean Water forbids dumping AvGas on the ground and Clean Air allegedly prohibits evaporating it maybe we can start a new tradition that'll rival the cut shirt tail as an oddity in decades to come.

I suggest that when we find water in our samples we pour it into a small metallic container (pie pan) away from the plane, place a small wad of paper towel or newspaper in there, and light it (carefully). As the sacrifice 100LL or Jet-A burns we'll walk circles around the it with our arms out making airplane sounds until the fire dies out. Douse the ashes with a little water and dispose of the soggy ashes (no longer hazmat?) & fly.

Just need one of you guys to do it first so that I don't look too weird.B)
Disclaimer: Unless you believe you know what you're doing I'd advise against this. Take care not to start brush/forest fires as your liability insurance may become maxed out and your wife may leave you. Most engine fuels burn from the vapor form, not liquid. Therefore one should take care when lighting fuel in open air to avoid accidental explosions.

 

[JohnR]

If you do that, is the lead really "gone"?

 

[nddons]

Since gas cans may be far and in between, the Clean Water forbids dumping AvGas on the ground and Clean Air allegedly prohibits evaporating it maybe we can start a new tradition that'll rival the cut shirt tail as an oddity in decades to come.

I suggest that when we find water in our samples we pour it into a small metallic container (pie pan) away from the plane, place a small wad of paper towel or newspaper in there, and light it (carefully). As the sacrifice 100LL or Jet-A burns we'll walk circles around the it with our arms out making airplane sounds until the fire dies out. Douse the ashes with a little water and dispose of the soggy ashes (no longer hazmat?) & fly.

Just need one of you guys to do it first so that I don't look too weird.B)
Disclaimer: Unless you believe you know what you're doing I'd advise against this. Take care not to start brush/forest fires as your liability insurance may become maxed out and your wife may leave you. Most engine fuels burn from the vapor form, not liquid. Therefore one should take care when lighting fuel in open air to avoid accidental explosions.

I like it. Send the idea to Sporty's; I bet they'd be selling an incendiary disposal tin by AirVenture!

 

[Pi1otguy]

What you mean is Sporty's will take a $1 pie pan, write "aviation" on it and sell it for $14.95!

 

[nddons]

What you mean is Sporty's will take a $1 pie pan, write "aviation" on it and sell it for $14.95!

Exactly. Just like this:



Who wouldn't skip using a plastic water bottle when you can use the Little John for $7.95? Walking into the FBO proudly carrying the Little John just tells the world "Yes, this guy is a PILOT!" (Lady J adapter sold separately for $6.95.)

 

[Skip Miller]

Exactly. Just like this:

What caliber is that?

-Skip

 

[bqmassey]

Exactly. Just like this:



Who wouldn't skip using a plastic water bottle when you can use the Little John for $7.95? Walking into the FBO proudly carrying the Little John just tells the world "Yes, this guy is a PILOT!" (Lady J adapter sold separately for $6.95.)

It sure beats version 1:

 

[cjcampbell]

Should we wear our kneeboards during the ritual? Clapping them together rhythmically as we progress around the sacrifice?

 

[Henning]

Every place that sells fuel should be required to provide a water separator and filtration unit for you to dump your contaminated sample in and underneath retrieve your clean useable fuel which you will dump back in your tanks. Lest anyone get their tit in a wringer over cost and yada yada, this would cost less than $40 per unit to fabricate, it is very simple and has no moving parts, and the chamois filter will last a long long time, and the 10 micron filter will depend on how bad your fuel tanks are, but would be cheap and easy to replace.

 

[SkyHog]

FWIW, neither the Clean Air act, or the Clean Water act prohibit dumping of airplane fuel on the ground. I debunked it a while back on one of the forums by posting the entire text of these acts. The hippies do want you to think so though

But I like the idea

 

[ntbjounin]

a friend of mine keeps a plastic gas gallon into which he pours his fuel samples, clean or dirty... then he puts that in his lawn mower or weedwacker. makes sense to me... besides if my lawn mower dies i doubt i'm next!

 

[Pi1otguy]

FWIW, neither the Clean Air act, or the Clean Water act prohibit dumping of airplane fuel on the ground.

Hmm. I kinda remember someone on the red board saying ...

http://forums.aopa.org/showpost.php?p=364822&postcount=16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkout_my_Six
If you throw it high enough in the air.......it will evaporate and not hit the ground.

Congratulations -- you've just avoided violating the Clean Water Act. However, in doing so, you've violated the Clean Air Act.

Can you link to the text?

 

[SkyHog]

Hmm. I kinda remember someone on the red board saying ...

http://forums.aopa.org/showpost.php?p=364822&postcount=16


Can you link to the text?

I'm at work right now, but I will. I love to enlighten this one, especially while standing in front of the signs at all airports that cite the Clean Water Act as a reason to dump fuel into the tank located like 3 miles from the nearest airplane.

BTW - it had to be the red board, but I don' t have access to those forums anymore....anyone wanna search for the thread?

 

[Pi1otguy]

Should we wear our kneeboards during the ritual? Clapping them together rhythmically as we progress around the sacrifice?

Only IR pilots wishing for "cleared as filed" or others wishing away a Sigmet. Just be careful not to scorch you attached plates/maps.

 

[etsisk]

I'm at work right now, but I will. I love to enlighten this one, especially while standing in front of the signs at all airports that cite the Clean Water Act as a reason to dump fuel into the tank located like 3 miles from the nearest airplane.

BTW - it had to be the red board, but I don' t have access to those forums anymore....anyone wanna search for the thread?

Unless you have access to your STATE statutes, you might still be surprised - because a lot of states have laws against it, with pretty sizeable fines. And for good reason.

 

[SkyHog]

Unless you have access to your STATE statutes, you might still be surprised - because a lot of states have laws against it, with pretty sizeable fines. And for good reason.

Of yeah, of course, I usually preface my point with that (forgot this time): Many states do have laws that prohibit it, but there is no federal act that does.

Now, if the airport puts the cannister within a reasonable distance from the flight line, I'll dump the fuel in there, for no reason other than fuel is expensive and I'd rather it be used for something (even if it is to fuel the weed eaters that clean up runway areas), but I'm still not convinced that the 1 ounce of fuel dumped on a large slab of asphalt does anywhere near the amount of damage that the fuel seeping from tank vents or spilled from lineman does (assuming that any damage is done from those activities either).

I once spilled a few gallons of gasoline from a truck I was working on and it destroyed the asphalt under my truck....but only about 1" deep, and the layers underneath were untouched by the fuel. This was GALLONS of fuel and it basically turned the asphalt into mud. I think the smell was worse than the environmental damage caused.

So I remained unconvinced that short of a major fuel spill, <1 ounce of dumped fuel causes any measurable damage to water sources.

 

[Henning]

So I remained unconvinced that short of a major fuel spill, <1 ounce of dumped fuel causes any measurable damage to water sources.

That is where you are incorrect. While the volitiles evaporate, there are plenty of toxic solids left behind. <1oz, no worries. <1oz*3-5 depending on plane * the amount of samples nation wide and world wide per day/per year.... it's not a good thing.

 

[rpadula]

I suggest that when we find water in our samples we pour it into a small metallic container (pie pan) away from the plane, place a small wad of paper towel or newspaper in there, and light it (carefully). As the sacrifice 100LL or Jet-A burns we'll walk circles around the it with our arms out making airplane sounds until the fire dies out.

Sorry, burning stuff contributes to global warming, dontcha know?

 

[alaskaflyer]

Every place that sells fuel should be required to provide a water separator and filtration unit for you to dump your contaminated sample in and underneath retrieve your clean useable fuel which you will dump back in your tanks. Lest anyone get their tit in a wringer over cost and yada yada, this would cost less than $40 per unit to fabricate, it is very simple and has no moving parts, and the chamois filter will last a long long time, and the 10 micron filter will depend on how bad your fuel tanks are, but would be cheap and easy to replace.

You all do realize that has already been invented and is available for retail sale for a reasonable price?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/gatsfueljar.php

 

[alaskaflyer]

From the inTernets:

STATISTICAL CONCLUSION.
Amazingly and unequivocally this one operation of sampling the fuel in an airplane to detect water and debris contamination and then throwing the sample on the ground amounts to 2.3 MILLION GALLONS of fuel being deliberately poured out onto the ground of the United States EACH AND EVERY YEAR. Over the past decade since the activity levels have remained about the same, this amounts to a staggering 23 MILLION GALLONS of fuel contaminating our ground and air with petroleum distillates and highly toxic lead additives.
In terms of wasted resources, consider the barrels of oil that must be refined to render this amount of aviation fuel and the money spent for the wasted fuel.

 

[Henning]

You all do realize that has already been invented and is available for retail sale for a reasonable price?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/gatsfueljar.php

Yeah, but it can be improved on.

 

[Henning]

From the inTernets:

???? I'm having a hard time with that one. If each sample was 2 ounces, that would mean almost 1.5 BILLION fuel samplings.

 

[SkyHog]

That is where you are incorrect. While the volitiles evaporate, there are plenty of toxic solids left behind. <1oz, no worries. <1oz*3-5 depending on plane * the amount of samples nation wide and world wide per day/per year.... it's not a good thing.

From the inTernets:

This is faulty info. Unless there is one water source nationwide that all cities pull from, this is not accurate. Instead, its 1oz x # of planes that dump a day at a SINGLE airport.

An insignificant amount. Probably around 2-5 gallons a day spread out over 5 miles of area.

 

[alaskaflyer]

???? I'm having a hard time with that one. If each sample was 2 ounces, that would mean almost 1.5 BILLION fuel samplings.

Hey, I didn't do the math! But if it is on the Internet, it must be true!!

http://www.reidhillview.com/Lead_4_times_car_fuel.htm

 

[alaskaflyer]

Hey Nick, ever hear of "think globally, act locally" ?

 

[Henning]

This is faulty info. Unless there is one water source nationwide that all cities pull from, this is not accurate. Instead, its 1oz x # of planes that dump a day at a SINGLE airport.

An insignificant amount. Probably around 2-5 gallons a day spread out over 5 miles of area.

Most of our aquafers are multi state as are catchment basins for quite a few water districts. There's nothing false about the polution. Do what you please, I'm no environmental maven, and I have slung my share of fuel on the ramp (mostly before I started paying for it directly), but don't lie to yourself or anyone else that there is no harm done. Is the harm below threshold for health at this point? In most places from this one issue, yes, however remember that these things are cumulative and lots more stuff gets put down on the ground, especially in the name of agriculture. The thing is, recovering the fuel is not only simple, it's economically viable and advantageous.

 

[SkyHog]

Hey Nick, ever hear of "think globally, act locally" ?

sure have! Liberal propaganda.

Actually, in all truthfulness though, I do see a hard time connecting local issue with a nationwide one in this instance.

 

[gprellwitz]

FWIW, I use a GATTS jar and dump the fuel back into the tanks when possible. Unfortunately, with the 210, I'd have to taxi over to the fueling station where there's a ladder (not sound environmental policy) or lug the ladder the 1000' to the plane and back, as if they'd let me take it (physically not a sound idea). So, for THAT PLANE, it goes on the ramp, and I feel guilty every time.

 

[AuntPeggy]

FWIW, I use a GATTS jar and dump the fuel back into the tanks when possible. Unfortunately, with the 210, I'd have to taxi over to the fueling station where there's a ladder (not sound environmental policy) or lug the ladder the 1000' to the plane and back, as if they'd let me take it (physically not a sound idea). So, for THAT PLANE, it goes on the ramp, and I feel guilty every time.

I carry a little portable ladder in the hold.

 

[gprellwitz]

I carry a little portable ladder in the hold.

Oh, we've got a little portable ladder too, but it's nowhere near big enough to get to the fueling port on the 210, even for Chris Jones! The wing height is about 9' 5", and of course the port is set back a ways.