Can the U.S. President or any VIP fly in their own TFR?

N918KT

N918KT

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Hey guys, here is an interesting question. Suppose the U.S. President or any other VIP wants to learn to fly or if they are a private pilot. Is it possible that they can fly in their own TFR? If the President or other VIP is a walking TFR, would it be legal for them to fly in a small plane everywhere they go or would they be in trouble for flying in their own TFR?
 
Yes. It is called a recursive TFR.
They are very hard to get out of.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Yes. It is called a recursive TFR.
They are very hard to get out of.
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:lol: :lol:

On another note, how bad ass would it be to fly a C172 with the call sign Air Force One! If I were pres that would be on my first 100 days agenda. :D

Would it be better for POTUS to fly straight-in or do the pattern?

...and can he always log PIC since he commands the FAA? hmmm
 
petrolero said:
:lol: :lol:

On another note, how bad ass would it be to fly a C172 with the call sign Air Force One! If I were pres that would be on my first 100 days agenda. :D

Would it be better for POTUS to fly straight-in or do the pattern?

...and can he always log PIC since he commands the FAA? hmmm
Click to expand...

If he uses the call sign Air Force One does that mean he is travelling for business? Does he have his commercial?
 
Actually Air Force One is not always used for government business. They ride it on vacations too. And it seems they get to keep the planes and limos when they leave office? Just look at the Reagan library for proof.

I'd hoped to get a grass roots effort to elect Henning so he could fly in his own TFR. Perhaps we can tap R&W instead.
 
JB1842 said:
If he uses the call sign Air Force One does that mean he is travelling for business? Does he have his commercial?
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Is he hauling Sercret Service Dudes? Are they sharing expenses?

I suppose he could appoint his own FAA General Counsel to give a special ruling.

Cheers
 
petrolero said:
On another note, how bad ass would it be to fly a C172 with the call sign Air Force One!
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Don't think the AF has any 172's anymore. They still have a few 182's I think. My friend said he started his AF career flying B-52's and ended up on the 182 (he was CAP liaison right before he retired).
 
JB1842 said:
If he uses the call sign Air Force One does that mean he is travelling for business? Does he have his commercial?
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AF1 has to be an Air Force plane. The military doesn't give a hoot if you have a civilian commercial certificate or not.
 
rolivi said:
Actually Air Force One is not always used for government business. They ride it on vacations too. And it seems they get to keep the planes and limos when they leave office? Just look at the Reagan library for proof.
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That airplane was retired when they got the 747. Almost all the other ones are at the USAF Museum on WPAFB near Dayton OH.

Anytime the President is aboard a flying machine it's One. Air Force One, Marine One (Helo) and I suppose when Pres Bush trapped aboard the carrier in an S-3, it was Navy One. Rest of the time the USAF Call sign is SAM XXXX for Special Air Mission (S/N) and operated by the 89th Airlift Wing out of Andrews.

Cheers
 
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On a serious note, there would be no way the Secret Service would allow a sitting President to pilot his own plane, rendering the question moot.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
On a serious note, there would be no way the Secret Service would allow a sitting President to pilot his own plane, rendering the question moot.
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Dunno about that. Were I POTUS they'd have a hard time keeping me from doing it. POTUS is in charge of the SS, not the other way around.

That said, I recall a memoir about one of the SS agents who guarded Reagan at his California ranch. Apparently he was the only one who could ride a horse, so he spent a lot of tie with the Big Gipper. He said the President liked to jump his horse, and he (the SS agent) asked him not to, "for the good of the American people". Reagan did actually comply with that one, and stopped shooting his guns there as well.
 
steingar said:
Dunno about that. Were I POTUS they'd have a hard time keeping me from doing it. POTUS is in charge of the SS, not the other way around.

That said, I recall a memoir about one of the SS agents who guarded Reagan at his California ranch. Apparently he was the only one who could ride a horse, so he spent a lot of tie with the Big Gipper. He said the President liked to jump his horse, and he (the SS agent) asked him not to, "for the good of the American people". Reagan did actually comply with that one, and stopped shooting his guns there as well.
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The horse was no doubt called Democrat One while he was aboard. :D
 
Norman said:
Just the rear end of the horse. :D
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Kemo%2B2.jpg
 
Greg Bockelman said:
On a serious note, there would be no way the Secret Service would allow a sitting President to pilot his own plane, rendering the question moot.
Click to expand...

They tried to stop LBJ from driving. I said they tried, but LBJ still drove his Lincolns across the fields at high speed and only stopped long enough to get the secret service guys to refill his glass with whiskey....then off across the fields again...:lol:
 
Greg Bockelman said:
On a serious note, there would be no way the Secret Service would allow a sitting President to pilot his own plane, rendering the question moot.
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Single engine aircraft are out for the POTUS.

If I recall correctly, Bush I was the last president to fly in a SE aircraft...
 
Ive been told that Ike flew his shrike...
 
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steingar said:
That said, I recall a memoir about one of the SS agents who guarded Reagan at his California ranch. Apparently he was the only one who could ride a horse, so he spent a lot of tie with the Big Gipper. He said the President liked to jump his horse, and he (the SS agent) asked him not to, "for the good of the American people". Reagan did actually comply with that one, and stopped shooting his guns there as well.
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According to a recent snippet published on CNN, the SS got VERY concerned when Reagan fired his gun. The retired agent describes one time where that happened. Frantic calls came over the radio, and the agent just responded with what happened: "Rawhide (Reagan's code name) shot."

Of course, there are two ways to interpret that....

Ron Wanttaja
 
N918KT said:
Hey guys, here is an interesting question. Suppose the U.S. President or any other VIP wants to learn to fly or if they are a private pilot. Is it possible that they can fly in their own TFR? If the President or other VIP is a walking TFR, would it be legal for them to fly in a small plane everywhere they go or would they be in trouble for flying in their own TFR?
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It's a flight restriction, not a flight ban. You can fly in a TFR if you find out what the rules are and/or call an ARTCC and ask under what conditions you can fly.

And commercial flights are not banned for presidential TFRs.

For example. When Obama was in Vegas a few months ago, GA was allowed to fly as long as a flight plan was filed. No one was allowed to go up and fly a pattern or a small loop unless a flight plan was filed.
 
d5by5 said:
It's a flight restriction, not a flight ban. You can fly in a TFR if you find out what the rules are and/or call an ARTCC and ask under what conditions you can fly.

And commercial flights are not banned for presidential TFRs.

For example. When Obama was in Vegas a few months ago, GA was allowed to fly as long as a flight plan was filed. No one was allowed to go up and fly a pattern or a small loop unless a flight plan was filed.
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The outer ring, sure... but the inner ring?
 
rolivi said:
Actually Air Force One is not always used for government business. They ride it on vacations too. And it seems they get to keep the planes and limos when they leave office? Just look at the Reagan library for proof.
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Nope. The 707 at the air force museum was used by JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Regan, Bush1 and Clinton during it's time in service, though in the later years it was a backup for a newer 707, which I assume is the plane at the Regan library. Pretty sure the current 747 has been used by both Obama and Dubya at least.
 
mkosmo said:
The outer ring, sure... but the inner ring?
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Inner ring can be entered by commercial traffic, and private flights that have been screened at the designated airport outside the ring. There are some other hoops, but it can be done.
 
According to the USAF Museum this is the smallest Air Force One.
 

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If the POTUS is flying his TWIN engine bugsmasher on his required long distance cross country in the middle of his recursive TFR are any other aircraft he passes in violation of the TFR? :confused::confused:

This is fun!
 
StinkBug said:
Inner ring can be entered by commercial traffic, and private flights that have been screened at the designated airport outside the ring. There are some other hoops, but it can be done.
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And DOD, law enforcement and air ambulance. We fly thru with no flight plan whatsoever. Prior coordination though depending on whether its POTUS or VPOTUS.
 
Air Force 1 is when he is on an air force plane
Marine 1 is when he is on the helo

Army 1 or Navy 1 would be as appropriate - when W made the ill advised trip to Lincoln with the Mission Accomplished banner - it was Navy 1.

If he is in a Non-CAP C172 he would be 'Executive 1"
 
X3 Skier said:
Is he hauling Sercret Service Dudes? Are they sharing expenses?

I suppose he could appoint his own FAA General Counsel to give a special ruling.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Executive Order is the way to go these days.
 
StinkBug said:
Nope. The 707 at the air force museum was used by JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Regan, Bush1 and Clinton during it's time in service, though in the later years it was a backup for a newer 707, which I assume is the plane at the Regan library. Pretty sure the current 747 has been used by both Obama and Dubya at least.
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The current 747 fleet replaced the 707 fleet around 1990 or so. I believe Bush 41 got to ride on it towards the very end of his presidency.

EDIT: There are several of the 707's and 747's that comprise the "Air Force One" fleet. IIRC, there are actually 3 or 4 747's and 2 or 3 of the 707's. The "Air Force One" fleet also includes 10-15 757's, 25-30 737's, and many Gulfstreams. Obama often takes the 757 aircraft as "Air Force One". Diplomats, cabinet members, and who knows who else takes the smaller planes on their trips on our dime.

There are currently a new fleet of "Air Force One's" being built by Boeing. I believe they are also based on the 747 and will feature the new Boeing swept up wings.
 
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petrolero said:
:lol: :lol:

On another note, how bad ass would it be to fly a C172 with the call sign Air Force One! If I were pres that would be on my first 100 days agenda. :D

Would it be better for POTUS to fly straight-in or do the pattern?

...and can he always log PIC since he commands the FAA? hmmm
Click to expand...

If the Air Force doesn't own the plane, its not Air Force One.
 
If the president wanted them to have a 172 for him to fly I'm pretty sure the air force could afford it. Hell, they probably spend more in fuel for the 747 on most of his trips. Not that it would ever happen, for a litany of reasons, but the plane itself isn't much of one.
 
StinkBug said:
If the president wanted them to have a 172 for him to fly I'm pretty sure the air force could afford it. Hell, they probably spend more in fuel for the 747 on most of his trips. Not that it would ever happen, for a litany of reasons, but the plane itself isn't much of one.
Click to expand...

Everyone knows if the President wanted to fly GA he would fly a Cirrus for the chute.
 
StinkBug said:
If the president wanted them to have a 172 for him to fly I'm pretty sure the air force could afford it. Hell, they probably spend more in fuel for the 747 on most of his trips. Not that it would ever happen, for a litany of reasons, but the plane itself isn't much of one.
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We need a president with a pilot's certificate, then instead of playing golf on the weekends he could just go to Andrews and work on his flying. Eventually he could work up to the 747 and just fly Air Force One as the co-pilot.

Given that the FAA is part of the executive branch he could probably just write an executive order to say it was cool if he flew a 747 with just his PPL. No need to bother with all those pesky check rides. :rofl:
 
If there's a rule, there's a waiver or exception.

waivers.faa.gov
 
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