I’m currently in the army in a job that I don’t feel any purpose in. I’m currently in AIT within the window of an ELS and I am considering refusing to train to be separated, I’m not suicidal but I’ve been extremely depressed and it’s been getting worse and I would rather be sent home after a months than let my mental state get worse, I’ve already spoken to my commander and BH and they have done nothing to help this is the only way I see myself getting out. I always wanted to fly and if I get out with failure to adapt I would want to pursue flying if it’s still possible for me to pursue when all is said and done.
Can I become a pilot with an ELS failure to adapt discharge or a general discharge
- Thread starter Plashlp
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Think about this. Flying can be very demanding. Some phases are perhaps as demanding, or more so, as AIT.
Paul
CW2 USA Ret.
Paul
CW2 USA Ret.
O
OP.
Guest
I understand there’s a lot of responsibility, I am 100% willing to put myself through if I have a shot at my dream, which would be eventually landing with a major.
O
OP.
Guest
I think that as long as I have a family around to support me that I can handle the stress of becoming a pilot. I will not have that moving forward in the army.
Sac Arrow
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Snorting his way across the USA
^^That. AIT comes and goes quickly. Flight training never ends.
DaleB
Final Approach
Yes, being a junior enlisted soldier in training can really suck. If you can't make it through that amount of suck, the next 40 or 50 years of your life are going to hold some truly rude shocks for you. At this point the purpose of your job is whatever the Army tells you it is. At your age and level of experience and skill, that's really about all you can expect. It may well be that there is no higher purpose to it, and the best you can do is to do what you're being trained and paid to do while the experience slowly builds character.
Can you still have a career flying if you manage to get yourself kicked out of the Army? Probably no legal obstacles, unless some helpful doctor diagnoses you with some disorder that will effectively block you from ever getting a medical certificate. ELS is for two groups - those who simply cannot perform, and those who will not perform. Neither would be an early indicator being successful at much else.
Can you still have a career flying if you manage to get yourself kicked out of the Army? Probably no legal obstacles, unless some helpful doctor diagnoses you with some disorder that will effectively block you from ever getting a medical certificate. ELS is for two groups - those who simply cannot perform, and those who will not perform. Neither would be an early indicator being successful at much else.
All I’ve said is that I’ve been depressed and anxious but I never received any diagnosis or anything of that sort that I know of.
DaleB
Final Approach
That you know of. And you're not out yet. All it would really take is one line in a medical file - something over which you have no control - to raise significant barriers to your ever being able to get a medical certificate. Could be a well meaning doc just trying to help you and your CO get you separated, or a helpful prescription to try to get you better adjusted. Even if that doesn't happen, if you can't tolerate the Army how would you plan to pay for pilot training?
The other option is to power through, complete the term of service for which you signed a contract and swore an oath, collect your pay, save up every dime you can and plan for maximizing government subsidized training after you get out.
O
OP.
Guest
I mean it was more than a few weeks ago and nothing came of it. No medical recommendations and they definitely weren’t going to help me get separated.
RussR
En-Route
You do realize that the post-9/11 GI Bill is about the best flight training "scholarship" you can receive? You need to stay in for 36 months, and meet a few other minor requirements, but then you're 100% eligible for it. If you want to pursue aviation then staying in for at least your initial enlistment is definitely a good way to go.
I'm not going to touch on what others have mentioned about ability to succeed, etc., except to say that ELA is not intended for someone to use to voluntarily get out early. It's a tool for commanders to remove low performers. If you're planning on sabotaging your own career through intentionally substandard performance, well that says a lot right there. If that's not your intent then I apologize for the implication.
I'm not going to touch on what others have mentioned about ability to succeed, etc., except to say that ELA is not intended for someone to use to voluntarily get out early. It's a tool for commanders to remove low performers. If you're planning on sabotaging your own career through intentionally substandard performance, well that says a lot right there. If that's not your intent then I apologize for the implication.
Even if my mos has nothing to do with aviation is it still worth pursuing the gi bill?
Without a doubt.
RussR
En-Route
The post-9/11 GI Bill is all about continuing education. This can be college courses, vocational training, or even flight training, among other things. It is one of the best benefits for military members and veterans.
Mason
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Absolutely. What you use the GI Bill for is totally independent from your MOS.
Flymy47
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Flymy47
LPT: You can change your MOS in the future...
And let me put it this way: the military gave me the experience to obtain my Airframe & Powerplant (A&P) certificates while I was on active duty. After I retired, I used my GI Bill to take a class that led me through the certification in two weeks. I then applied the credits I got for the certificates and took an English class that gave me an associate's degree. I took that to ERAU at the post education center and applied that towards a BS, which I got after 2 years of part-time online classes. I got paid a stipend while I took those classes. Do you think you'd ever like to buy a house? Can't beat a VA loan with no money down if you're a veteran.
Stick it out. I held three MOSs', one of which I was stuck in for three and a half years due to my bad decision-making/MOS choice. I hated it, but I did my job and was an asset to the unit. I learned the system, made it work for me, and got to where I wanted to be (by changing my MOS).
You might be depressed now, but if you dig deep and gut it out, you WILL be better off in the long run. You will expend far more energy trying to get out than if you just keep your eye on the ball. If aviation is where you want to be, use the Army to get there. It's a great big world out there for you to explore.
This old Sarge is pulling for you.
And let me put it this way: the military gave me the experience to obtain my Airframe & Powerplant (A&P) certificates while I was on active duty. After I retired, I used my GI Bill to take a class that led me through the certification in two weeks. I then applied the credits I got for the certificates and took an English class that gave me an associate's degree. I took that to ERAU at the post education center and applied that towards a BS, which I got after 2 years of part-time online classes. I got paid a stipend while I took those classes. Do you think you'd ever like to buy a house? Can't beat a VA loan with no money down if you're a veteran.
Stick it out. I held three MOSs', one of which I was stuck in for three and a half years due to my bad decision-making/MOS choice. I hated it, but I did my job and was an asset to the unit. I learned the system, made it work for me, and got to where I wanted to be (by changing my MOS).
You might be depressed now, but if you dig deep and gut it out, you WILL be better off in the long run. You will expend far more energy trying to get out than if you just keep your eye on the ball. If aviation is where you want to be, use the Army to get there. It's a great big world out there for you to explore.
This old Sarge is pulling for you.
douglas393
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Not sure it is available where you are stationed, but when I was in the air force, non flying position, there was a flying club that offered civilian flight training at a relatively low cost. You very well may be able to start learning to fly while on active duty.
DaleB
Final Approach
MOS? Yeah, they're great, I had three of 'em in one enlistment. It's a short term job, not a life sentence.
Let me give you the old guy perspective. What you're experiencing now is transient. When you're in the middle of it you feel pretty miserable, but it's relatively brief misery. If you stick it out and power through it, you'll be much better equipped to deal with the inevitable suckage you'll encounter later on - and even if you have a job you love, there WILL be suckage. Best to learn to deal with it now, or your life will not be a happy one.
It may not be visible to you right now, but everything you do shapes your future path. When I hire people and see that they have military experience, I don't really care much what their MOS was. What I do care about is that they completed an enlistment and have the discipline and work ethic to show up, do their job, and get results to the best of their ability. I know they're not going to be whiners who will take a week off when they have a hangnail, and I know they'll respond well to training and direction. They have a positive attitude and a "can-do" mindset that makes them valuable.
You're not just learning your MOS right now. You're also learning that things don't always go to plan, you won't always be happy, and you need to be able to deal with it. What you are considering is a drastic solution to a very short term problem. You need to take a long look at the long term and not screw yourself over in a way that will have a negative impact for years to come.
Sac Arrow
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Been there, there were times when I sorely wanted to get out, as in, most of the time, but I don't regret sticking it out and collecting my college benefits at the end. It gets better once you get to your TOD unit.
In my second TOD unit, which was stateside, I ended up getting snagged to work in S3, as an ops sergeant. I worked an E6 slot as an E4, and later as an E5. Learned a lot about battalion level tactics. The operative point being that there can be other assignment options beside a line infantry unit if you keep your nose clean and have a good service record. In either case it gets better as you go. I even did voluntary active duty assignments for the last two years of my inactive reserve status, which gave me a pretty cool summer job during college. That was running a land navigation course at a reserve training center. Super chill assignment, and it beat the hell out of flipping burgers or stocking shelves.
In my second TOD unit, which was stateside, I ended up getting snagged to work in S3, as an ops sergeant. I worked an E6 slot as an E4, and later as an E5. Learned a lot about battalion level tactics. The operative point being that there can be other assignment options beside a line infantry unit if you keep your nose clean and have a good service record. In either case it gets better as you go. I even did voluntary active duty assignments for the last two years of my inactive reserve status, which gave me a pretty cool summer job during college. That was running a land navigation course at a reserve training center. Super chill assignment, and it beat the hell out of flipping burgers or stocking shelves.
Sac Arrow
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I'm guessing you went through the WOCS helicopter flight training program. I would have absolutely love to have done that, but I didn't have the required eyesight. I actually enlisted with the intention of pursuing a direct commission, which was an option available to me at the time since I had two years of college completed, where I could complete the remaining two years on their time.
I didn't pursue that as at some point I decided I didn't want to be a lifer - or at least and infantry lifer. I remember what it was like to be an officer (S3 is very officer heavy) and their lives sucked too. Let's face it, at some point you get to old for that ****.
What would I have changed if I had it to do over again? Not a ******ned thing.
Flymy47
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Actually I didn't. I also had bad eyesight, but the Army gave me PRK, so I applied, but the timing didn't work out and I was not selected. I elected to stay in until retirement as a senior NCO and Non-Rated Crewmember (Flight Engineer/Crew Chief). In the end, it was a blessing, and landed me a great job. Still managed to see the country coast to coast and can't believe i got paid to shoot firearms out of a flying helicopter all those years. I learned to fly before I joined, and I am fortunate the Army didn't ruin flying for me by turning it into a job.