Can I be a pilot with a General Discharge

FezYL

Filing Flight Plan
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Fez
Hey there so about 2 years ago I was discharge from the USAF, I received a general discharge under honorable means. Which is considered an honorable discharge.

While i was in I was irresponsible and hung out with the wrong group of people. And they decided to do drugs, now I never participated but I did see it happen. I was later discharge with the narrative Misconduct(Drug Abuse). I never failed a urinalysis exam and I didn’t participate, but OSI had scared me into a confession and that’s about all they had on me. I keep getting very mixed responses online and we’ll as there being not to much info on this.

So I guess my question is do I have an shot in getting a job at a regional or a major with this on my record. Or should I give up on my dream of becoming an airline pilot?

Thank you in advance for your advice.
 
Yes, you can be an airline pilot with a general under honorable 214. No different than honorable discharge. Nothing to see here.
 
Yes, you can be an airline pilot with a general under honorable 214. No different than honorable discharge. Nothing to see here.
Yes, that is true. As it was explained by my first sergeant and base commander at the time. But my only concern would be the discharge narrative of Misconduct(Drug Abuse). The military will label it that even if it was a one time offense, which in my case I was never drug tested and only out of fear admitted to it. It was a case of wrong place wrong time. And I’m committed to taking full responsibility for my action. But again I’m worried it will be hard to find a job as a pilot at an airline because of the narrative.

thanks.
 
If your DD 214 says drug abuse, it will be assumed that you used while serving. Will be hard for you to justify that you never used . Reach out to an AME to see if you can get a medical.
 
If your DD 214 says drug abuse, it will be assumed that you used while serving. Will be hard for you to justify that you never used . Reach out to an AME to see if you can get a medical.

Yes I already have I was able to get a first class medical as the AME said since I never tested positive for drugs on a drug test, which the military does stores on file then I am good to on that part of it.
 
If your DD 214 says drug abuse, it will be assumed that you used while serving. Will be hard for you to justify that you never used . Reach out to an AME to see if you can get a medical.
Count yourself lucky and start training.
 
That would be my concern as well as any finding or conviction for drug abuse can be a bar.

so to clarify there was no conviction or any official charges against me. Like besides what the DD214 says there is nothing in any form of legal database that contains information about a conviction on me.

there was a conviction, but no arrest due to those but I have already gotten this expunged from my record and is now gone.
 
Yes I already have I was able to get a first class medical as the AME said since I never tested positive for drugs on a drug test, which the military does stores on file then I am good to on that part of it.

If you received NJP before the discharge, especially an A15 for an Article 112 charge, you may want a second opinion from @bbchien as that may fall under the “Administrative Action History”
 
If you received NJP before the discharge, especially an A15 for an Article 112 charge, you may want a second opinion from @bbchien as that may fall under the “Administrative Action History”
I did receive a NJP, no article 112. But I don’t see it asking that anywhere on the Med application on FAA for the first class AME
 
Hey there so about 2 years ago I was discharge from the USAF, I received a general discharge under honorable means. Which is considered an honorable discharge.

While i was in I was irresponsible and hung out with the wrong group of people. And they decided to do drugs, now I never participated but I did see it happen. I was later discharge with the narrative Misconduct(Drug Abuse). I never failed a urinalysis exam and I didn’t participate, but OSI had scared me into a confession and that’s about all they had on me. I keep getting very mixed responses online and we’ll as there being not to much info on this.

So I guess my question is do I have an shot in getting a job at a regional or a major with this on my record. Or should I give up on my dream of becoming an airline pilot?

Thank you in advance for your advice.

Maybe the Airforce is different or maybe things have changed a lot since my day, but your story doesn't make sense. Not to say it didn't happen just the way you say, but that could explain the mixed responses.

If I was hiring, I guess I would want to know exactly what you confessed to, and why a grown man would be frightened into falsely confessing. I would next wonder if it was more likely you lied to wreck your military career, or you are lying to me to get a job. Then again, they might just accept the character of the discharge and not require an explanation.
 
Maybe the Airforce is different or maybe things have changed a lot since my day, but your story doesn't make sense. Not to say it didn't happen just the way you say, but that could explain the mixed responses.

If I was hiring, I guess I would want to know exactly what you confessed to, and why a grown man would be frightened into falsely confessing. I would next wonder if it was more likely you lied to wreck your military career, or you are lying to me to get a job. Then again, they might just accept the character of the discharge and not require an explanation.

I totally understand where you are coming from. I was 19 at the time this happened freshly out of high school. So idk if I’d say a grown man. OSI is known for obtaining false confessions.
 
I totally understand where you are coming from. I was 19 at the time this happened freshly out of high school. So idk if I’d say a grown man. OSI is known for obtaining false confessions.

By the rule of law, you were a grown man. Whether or not you acted like it (sounds like a big no) that is another story
 
I totally understand where you are coming from. I was 19 at the time this happened freshly out of high school. So idk if I’d say a grown man. OSI is known for obtaining false confessions.


You were grown enough to enlist and bear arms in service of the country. You were old enough to vote. Don't expect anyone to cut you any slack because of your youth.

Bottom line - either you lied by confessing, or you're lying now. Either way you've established yourself as a liar. It's up to you to overcome that. It can certainly be done, and you can prove yourself trustworthy, but the ball is in your court. Don't blame it on OSI. Today, the most honest answer would probably be something along the lines of admitting you didn't have the courage to fight the accusation.

This isn't catastrophic. You can get beyond it and have a great career and life. But be brutally honest, starting with being honest with yourself.
 
…OSI is known for obtaining false confessions.
Eh, not so much considering the member has the right to take it to a trial by peers and the JAG really doesn’t like losing and OSI commanders routinely get feedback from line commanders on whether an agent appears to have an integrity problem.

My experience has been OSI presents the command with all the evidence and it’s up to the command to decide what the way ahead is.

Sometimes that’s an LOR, sometimes it’s an A15, sometimes it’s a court martial, sometimes it’s an admin discharge, sometimes it’s a combination of all the above.

My advice still stands that nobody is going to care the type of discharge on your DD-214. The FAA may care about your medical depending on the specific charges and outcomes. They may also care if you are receiving certain VA benefits.
 
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Some people on here are unnecessarily harsh and act like they’re above stupid decisions.

All of us have done dumb things at times in our past. And most of us will again in the future. Get off your high horses and be happy you weren’t caught doing something dumb or caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Being pressured into confessions by those with power over you isn’t exactly unheard of. Especially if it’s hard to prove your way out and the punishment for confessing is minimal.
 
Really TL;DR warning**** You've been warned :D

Rant switch: ON -- light steady

OSI can be a very corrupt animal, at least in my and family's experience. They lean on junior enlisted's inclination to not assert themselves legally due to their stipulated youth and lack of life experience. Miscarriages of justice abound. It's a system without much in the way of power checks, compared to our civilian legal system. In fairness to OSI, it's not just them, but incompetent and petty/overzealous squadron level commanders who have no business in such role.

At any rate, Military (UCMJ) justice is a bit of a kangaroo court. Historically designed not for justice, but for the rather the punitive preservation of command structure and unit order while forward-deployed and in wartime during a time where female membership was negligible. As such, it is not really adept at the day to day drudgery of modern peacetime garrison/shore/homebase life. A Few Good Men is a movie that makes constant dramatized reference to that dichotomy, but the subtext that underpins that narrative is not wrong. The UCMJ is anachronistic for modern co-ed garrison life.

Civilian counsel literate in UCMJ proceedings routinely clean clocks with the I-commissioned-for-the-loan-repayment clowns that mark the plurality of counsel running the JAG/ADC offices. First order of business for anyone when military "justice" comes after you, is to get a civilian lawyer who speaks DOD-crayon-eating lawyer. Problem is most junior enlisted are usually dispensed with by over-reaching NJP thrown about too casually. Often with the intended effect because again, most don't know they're being pincered by a system they barely have enough service time in to spell article 15, let alone digest what is happening to them.

Yes, the DOD deals with a lot of junior enlisted misbehavior and insubordination compared to the rest of the force. But, this is the equivalent of insisting in trying minors as adults for non-violent misdemeanor offenses that the service already stipulated as a sunk cost, when they chose to staff the force with a bunch of 18yos in the first place. Surprise surprise, retention thence sucks, and civilians complain about defense budget waste. Can't have the cake and eat it. Again, UCMJ is imho not an adequate tool for these types of in-garrison, non-combatant personnel management nothingburgers. The constant 3/9 overshoots are a result of that mismatch.

In a prior life, my junior enlisted now-wife was immediately accused by the keystone cops with furnishing the young girl who committed suicide in the adjacent room, (junior enlisted dorms, shared bathroom through contra-facing doors) the container of medication she ended up overdosing on. A complete witch-hunt except my wife, being the closed-fist throwing type of 'girl' she is, pushed back without reverence to authority.

Leadership didn't like her bedside manner when defending herself from a false accusation, color me and my own tone-policing counseling paperwork, shocked. The accusations ultimately fizzled. All cleared on the criminal front, but still got paperwork during her tenure precisely for that assertiveness. Tone-policing abounds in the military...again ask me how I know.

She got plenty of LOCs in her short 3.5 years and had promotions/preferential assignments scuttled over it (which galvanized her resolve to GTFO the military at the first opportunity). Didn't get anything more lasting than that on her 214 because nothing would stick of course. Turns out speaking the truth in life with a verbal inflection or mannerism your supervisors merely dislike, is ultimately NOT a dischargeable offense. Don't tell the thin blue line types that of course.

The environment of junior enlisted usaf life is so schizophrenic, they actually gave her Airman of the Quarter at the Group level award ( a very public ceremony, complete with a shadowbox and eagle brass trophy) in the same quarter she's getting slapped with a letter of counseling. Same quarter. You can't make this stuff up. Zero credibility left as a so-called justice dispensing legal system.

I've seen plenty of serious criminal complaints in military life lobbed at the officer level to know this isn't just about "enlisted being enlisted" either. Funds embezzlement, uncorroborated sexual assault, fraternization (and I'm on the record stating I don't think it should be a crime as presently so-broadly defined), adultery (another one that's long overdue for removal), even attempted murder/assault with a deadly weapon. Psychiatric adjudications concocted out of trumped up charges, undue command influence (UCI) in NJPs and actual court martials (CM). Latter two later overturned (with aid of competent civilian lawyers) on appeal at the HAF level! A treasure trove of incompetent jurisprudence. This stuff makes Russian/Chinese courts look high-minded.

In closing, you want to take the clowns behind that rank oxymoronic adjudicative behavior at their word? Knock yourself out. But I can tell you if I was airline HR, homeboy's DD214 wouldn't raise a single hair on my eyebrow. I'd be more skeptical of the marathon-running just-retired O-5 with 100pct VA rating for "SA" and all-body arthritic range of motion, walking in with his AFG turkey shoot AM-saturated 214; if we're going to be casting aspersions at people's character and Honor, from the cheap seats.

Like I said in the first post. OP has a class I already. OP has a honorable discharge equivalent in his 214. IOW: OP has 99 hurdles to get to a major airline right seat, but his 214 ain't one of them. There's nothing to see here.

One last data node: That hack Kelly Flinn got an actual insubordination discharge in lieu of court martial, all the way direct from SECAF level (due to the media hype that ensued) on her way out of the Buff. Then wrote that self-serving ghastly book, changed her name while at ASA (now long defunct), and ended up with a multi-million dollar career at UPS. Hers was a general discharge as well. Different spanks for different ranks? Not on my watch.

And I happen to agree with Flinn on the anachronism behind adultery and frat charges in the UCMJ, much as it pains me to agree with that opportunist of a woman on anything. But spade is a spade: this DD-214 is not going to be an issue for the OP. To suggest otherwise is targeted misinformation.
 
Really TL;DR warning**** You've been warned :D

Rant switch: ON -- light steady

OSI can be a very corrupt animal, at least in my and family's experience. They lean on junior enlisted's inclination to not assert themselves legally due to their stipulated youth and lack of life experience. Miscarriages of justice abound. It's a system without much in the way of power checks, compared to our civilian legal system. In fairness to OSI, it's not just them, but incompetent and petty/overzealous squadron level commanders who have no business in such role.

At any rate, Military (UCMJ) justice is a bit of a kangaroo court. Historically designed not for justice, but for the rather the punitive preservation of command structure and unit order while forward-deployed and in wartime during a time where female membership was negligible. As such, it is not really adept at the day to day drudgery of modern peacetime garrison/shore/homebase life. A Few Good Men is a movie that makes constant dramatized reference to that dichotomy, but the subtext that underpins that narrative is not wrong. The UCMJ is anachronistic for modern co-ed garrison life.

Civilian counsel literate in UCMJ proceedings routinely clean clocks with the I-commissioned-for-the-loan-repayment clowns that mark the plurality of counsel running the JAG/ADC offices. First order of business for anyone when military "justice" comes after you, is to get a civilian lawyer who speaks DOD-crayon-eating lawyer. Problem is most junior enlisted are usually dispensed with by over-reaching NJP thrown about too casually. Often with the intended effect because again, most don't know they're being pincered by a system they barely have enough service time in to spell article 15, let alone digest what is happening to them.

Yes, the DOD deals with a lot of junior enlisted misbehavior and insubordination compared to the rest of the force. But, this is the equivalent of insisting in trying minors as adults for non-violent misdemeanor offenses that the service already stipulated as a sunk cost, when they chose to staff the force with a bunch of 18yos in the first place. Surprise surprise, retention thence sucks, and civilians complain about defense budget waste. Can't have the cake and eat it. Again, UCMJ is imho not an adequate tool for these types of in-garrison, non-combatant personnel management nothingburgers. The constant 3/9 overshoots are a result of that mismatch.

In a prior life, my junior enlisted now-wife was immediately accused by the keystone cops with furnishing the young girl who committed suicide in the adjacent room, (junior enlisted dorms, shared bathroom through contra-facing doors) the container of medication she ended up overdosing on. A complete witch-hunt except my wife, being the closed-fist throwing type of 'girl' she is, pushed back without reverence to authority.

Leadership didn't like her bedside manner when defending herself from a false accusation, color me and my own tone-policing counseling paperwork, shocked. The accusations ultimately fizzled. All cleared on the criminal front, but still got paperwork during her tenure precisely for that assertiveness. Tone-policing abounds in the military...again ask me how I know.

She got plenty of LOCs in her short 3.5 years and had promotions/preferential assignments scuttled over it (which galvanized her resolve to GTFO the military at the first opportunity). Didn't get anything more lasting than that on her 214 because nothing would stick of course. Turns out speaking the truth in life with a verbal inflection or mannerism your supervisors merely dislike, is ultimately NOT a dischargeable offense. Don't tell the thin blue line types that of course.

The environment of junior enlisted usaf life is so schizophrenic, they actually gave her Airman of the Quarter at the Group level award ( a very public ceremony, complete with a shadowbox and eagle brass trophy) in the same quarter she's getting slapped with a letter of counseling. Same quarter. You can't make this stuff up. Zero credibility left as a so-called justice dispensing legal system.

I've seen plenty of serious criminal complaints in military life lobbed at the officer level to know this isn't just about "enlisted being enlisted" either. Funds embezzlement, uncorroborated sexual assault, fraternization (and I'm on the record stating I don't think it should be a crime as presently so-broadly defined), adultery (another one that's long overdue for removal), even attempted murder/assault with a deadly weapon. Psychiatric adjudications concocted out of trumped up charges, undue command influence (UCI) in NJPs and actual court martials (CM). Latter two later overturned (with aid of competent civilian lawyers) on appeal at the HAF level! A treasure trove of incompetent jurisprudence. This stuff makes Russian/Chinese courts look high-minded.

In closing, you want to take the clowns behind that rank oxymoronic adjudicative behavior at their word? Knock yourself out. But I can tell you if I was airline HR, homeboy's DD214 wouldn't raise a single hair on my eyebrow. I'd be more skeptical of the marathon-running just-retired O-5 with 100pct VA rating for "SA" and all-body arthritic range of motion, walking in with his AFG turkey shoot AM-saturated 214; if we're going to be casting aspersions at people's character and Honor, from the cheap seats.

Like I said in the first post. OP has a class I already. OP has a honorable discharge equivalent in his 214. IOW: OP has 99 hurdles to get to a major airline right seat, but his 214 ain't one of them. There's nothing to see here.

One last data node: That hack Kelly Flinn got an actual insubordination discharge in lieu of court martial, all the way direct from SECAF level (due to the media hype that ensued) on her way out of the Buff. Then wrote that self-serving ghastly book, changed her name while at ASA (now long defunct), and ended up with a multi-million dollar career at UPS. Hers was a general discharge as well. Different spanks for different ranks? Not on my watch.

And I happen to agree with Flinn on the anachronism behind adultery and frat charges in the UCMJ, much as it pains me to agree with that opportunist of a woman on anything. But spade is a spade: this DD-214 is not going to be an issue for the OP. To suggest otherwise is targeted misinformation.

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel. :D I read Flynn’s book when I was hanging out in Kosovo. Entertaining for sure. A victim of all work and no play makes one decide to sleep with a married man because you don’t understand the birds and the bees. :eek:
 
Hey there so about 2 years ago I was discharge from the USAF, I received a general discharge under honorable means. Which is considered an honorable discharge.

While i was in I was irresponsible and hung out with the wrong group of people. And they decided to do drugs, now I never participated but I did see it happen. I was later discharge with the narrative Misconduct(Drug Abuse). I never failed a urinalysis exam and I didn’t participate, but OSI had scared me into a confession and that’s about all they had on me. I keep getting very mixed responses online and we’ll as there being not to much info on this.

So I guess my question is do I have an shot in getting a job at a regional or a major with this on my record. Or should I give up on my dream of becoming an airline pilot?

Thank you in advance for your advice.
Might be a long shot since this is an old post but, any updates on how this turned out for you?
I’m going through a similar situation and will soon get a general discharge with the same narrative, I’m a CFI and I want to start building my hours for the airlines, what are the chances I can get hired ?
 
Might be a long shot since this is an old post but, any updates on how this turned out for you?
I’m going through a similar situation and will soon get a general discharge with the same narrative, I’m a CFI and I want to start building my hours for the airlines, what are the chances I can get hired ?
Looks like it's been over a year since he or she logged in here.
 
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