Can a girl handle a line services position?

Regina said:
I got some conflicting info that made me doubt my abilities. Apparently, there is a difference between working line services and being a refueler? A few guys I talked to insisted that the manager would take one look at me and decide that I want able to handle it physically and that I would end up in the office. Another guy said they would hire me for "political reasons" ( not sure what that means...) and that I would shuffle to lift an 80 pound hose until I finally "broke my body" or quit.

My old CFI told me they were full of it and that he FBO would just have me refuel GA aircraft and not commercial. I didn't realize there was a difference in responsibilities between line services and refuelers.

Should I just assume that they were trying to discourage me from even applying? Or is there any truth to it? Also, while I'm thinking of applying because I love airplanes.. They told me that CSRs make more $$ than line service even though line guys ( and gals) are exposed to cancerous fumes.

Is there any truth to that?
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I did both GA and airline. The biggest thing I've fueled is a C130 I think. They seem bigger than a 737 or Airbus A320. The smallest.... a powered glider? An RV? I dunno.
 
douglas393 said:
True, but the exposure is much more. You do not fill up your car 10 or 20 times a day(though I do not know how many planes get fueled a day, but I would assume it is more often then most of us fuel up our cars), and most cars are full after 10 or 20 gallons, whereas most planes need more than that.

However, my bet is that it is not too high of a risk or we would see someone sueing an FBO or the fuel companies because they got cancer from aviation fuel.
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The problem Geico was alluding to has nothing to do with fuel being a carcinogenic. AV Gas contains lead (unlike Mogas). Lead is known to cause birth defects, hence, the concern about women of child bearing age handling it on a regular basis. This is not a sexist statement at all.
 
Lifting stuff like fuel hoses is as much about technique as strength. Learning to use your legs, keeping the weight in close to maintain balance, proper placement of the ladder, positioning of the hose, mat and filler cap, lots of stuff that should be part of your training.
 
John221us said:
The problem Geico was alluding to has nothing to do with fuel being a carcinogenic. AV Gas contains lead (unlike Mogas). Lead is known to cause birth defects, hence, the concern about women of child bearing age handling it on a regular basis. This is not a sexist statement at all.
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Was not commenting on Geico's statement which is very true as well, but in fact lead can cause all sorts of problems in both men and women including permanent brain damage, and kidney damage. Though apparently absorbtion through the skin is not as much an issue as inhalation or ingestion. Also it is a concern for men who intend to do their part in the childmaking process. See:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3238426
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=10031&p_table=STANDARDS
Not sure where I said I thought it was sexist.
I was actually commenting
Originally Posted by N801BH
You get cancerous fumes every time you fill up your car...

Geez.... You have to think logically..Ma'am
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where he is talking about the cancerous effects of fuel.
 
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Sac Arrow said:
(start Internet bot search tool = find user_new)
(username = Regina)
(Search IP compare=find matching)
(endresult=Henning)
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Impossible. Regina couldn't have gone 5 posts without saying "follow the money" if she was really Henning. :rofl:
 
I would argue that Line Service/Refuelers are exposed to a lot more "cancerous" fumes than many of the posts here seem to let on. I've been fueling airplane for nearly three years now and I am convinced that the Line Service position has negative health effects. Yes you are "exposed" to these fumes when refueling your car. However not nearly to the degree that you are when fueling airplanes. For one you often refuel a lot more airplanes in own day than you refuel your car in a year. I've had days where I've fueled 50+ avgas aircraft and/or 20+ jet aircraft. Secondly, the exposure is a lot higher because there is a much greater opening and you are physically closure to the fuel. I personally have been trying for the past few months to find a CSR at a local FBO. I've worked both and definitely prefer the CSR position. The only negative thing there is that I suppose they make less in tips and have to occasionally deal with cranky customers - however Line Service has to deal with them also. However it is incredibly frustrating to work line and get paid the same or less than a customer service representative because you see that you end up doing a much greater amount of work when all is said and done.

As for your original question I think you can certainly do it and I don't have any discouragement for you being a girl.

I would turn people away from that line of work for the negative health affects. At the FBO I currently work at all the guys complain of constantly smelling like Jet Fuel - as the smell sticks with you long after you've fueled. If it's a busy day of Jet Fuel and we get a lot of nozzle fueling where we are exposed to the fuel you will find yourself home, having showered, and in bed smelling the fuel on your hands still. Another thing that seems to happen often is you get fuel on you. Often times its AVGAS because you're fuel a plane with a tank tab, or a screen mesh and if you spray the fuel at certain angels it'll splash back. This doesn't happen to me much often because I am usually pretty slow about it and avoid it. But it has happened. Also the climbing up and down ladders with the fuel hose starts to take it's toll. I have figured out that I have to alternate shoulder if I am fueling high wings otherwise I start to get really bad shoulder pains. Climbing into and out of the trucks ends up hurting your legs because you end up doing it very often. Deicing fluid can get on you sometimes. This isn't common but it happens.

Also the fact that you're towing planes all day starts to take it's toll on your body. For example: plane pulls onto the ramp, you have to chock it, then hook up the towbar, then the tug, then unchock, tow, rechock, and you're done. Due that 15 times a day you really start to hurt your knees and back.

This just seems like grandpa ranting but I'm only 20 years old and I've been doing this since I turned 18. Don't get me wrong, I'm still doing it after nearly 3 years. If I had the option I would do CSR work at an FBO. Since it's my only in to stay in the industry I am whiling to put up with the troubles.

P.S. I don't mean to be rude or sexiest but the website FBOHotties.com lists a bunch of LST females through out the country if you are looking for physical proof of a women fueling.:dunno:
 
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douglas393 said:
Was not commenting on Geico's statement which is very true as well, but in fact lead can cause all sorts of problems in both men and women including permanent brain damage, and kidney damage. Though apparently absorbtion through the skin is not as much an issue as inhalation or ingestion. Also it is a concern for men who intend to do their part in the childmaking process. See:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3238426
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=10031&p_table=STANDARDS
Not sure where I said I thought it was sexist.
I was actually commenting

where he is talking about the cancerous effects of fuel.
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I am sorry, it wasn't specifically directed at you, just the general direction of the conversation. When I read Geico's comment, it seemed to me to specifically allude to the issue of birth defects, though you do make a good point, that even that is not gender specific.
 
Regina said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa!! TIPS?!!

How does that work?
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Just like it does anywhere else. Most self respecting pilots are going to throw you a tip for good service! It's the right thing to do IMHO
 
John221us said:
I am sorry, it wasn't specifically directed at you, just the general direction of the conversation. When I read Geico's comment, it seemed to me to specifically allude to the issue of birth defects, though you do make a good point, that even that is not gender specific.
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No apology necessary. However it really does show that this fuel stuff is much more dangerous than I think most of us realized. I was sort of surprise how much of my organic and biochemistry I forgot when I thought about this. Did many years of organometallic, and biochemical research before setting my sights in a different direction.
 
LifeInverted said:
Just like it does anywhere else. Most self respecting pilots are going to throw you a tip for good service! It's the right thing to do IMHO
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And we always appreciate it! Even if its a couple bucks for driving you to the terminal we really really appreciate it!
douglas393 said:
No apology necessary. However it really does show that this fuel stuff is much more dangerous than I think most of us realized. I was sort of surprise how much of my organic and biochemistry I forgot when I thought about this. Did many years of organometallic, and biochemical research before setting my sights in a different direction.
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Guys have worked at my job 30 plus years. Refueling.

Though yes, jet fuel sticks with you. It's kersosene based, it doesn't dry like av gas does. I imagine this job is harder if you're older, but I'm in my 20s so I have no problem chalking, towing, fueling anything.
 
Anybody remember Flower Aviation in Pueblo back in the late seventies?
 
One of my favorite line persons (politically correct term) at our home FBO was a young lady, early 20's I guess. She worked hard, always had a smile on her face and I think enjoyed her job. She worked there a couple years and I think the gossip and politics got to her. It's all GA, but she fueled everything, drove the tugs etc, nothing about the job says male only. She also got to do the dirty stuff as well, cleaning lavs, etc.
 
garyb said:
I guess that depends on whether you have a fun, flirtatious attitude, or a skanky Hillary Clinton women-are the-same-as-men attitude. I hope it's the former, because nobody likes to be served by a skank. :nonod:

If you doubt you physical ability, go to the gym and lift that weight over your head. If you can't do that, stay in the gym till you can. :yesnod:

Put you hair in a ponytail. If your hair is short, grow it long and put it in a ponytail. :yes:

Stay clean. Nobody likes a sweaty, greasy girl. :nono: Except for maybe a little smudge on your cheekbone.

Fumes? I love the smell of Jet A blowing across the ramp on a hot afternoon. :)
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Hmm...who woulda thunk that people still domicile within the features of Karst topograhy in Coeur d'Alene...
 
Go for it girl. Unless you are particularly weak, which you don't seem to think you are, I bet you'd do great. As others have mentioned, put on a smile and display a good attitude, but get the job done too. It's always a bummer when you get a grumpy line person/refueler. I like to see women involved in aviation, whether they are pilots or line gals or desk workers. GA is dominated by ugly old farts, at least in my area, so it's always refreshing to have a woman in the mix. Not for sexist reasons, but just for the sake of variety. However, my sexist side says it's nice to see a pretty gal on the field from time to time too.
 
If you think you can you are probably right.

I find the work easy, if a bit dull. One former coworker (male) could barely climb a ladder with out complaining.

Granted he got caught hiding behind the fuel truck smoking too...
 
Skylane81E said:
If you think you can you are probably right.

I find the work easy, if a bit dull. One former coworker (male) could barely climb a ladder with out complaining.

Granted he got caught hiding behind the fuel truck smoking too...
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A Darwin Award candidate I see. :rolleyes2:
 
I applied for that kind of job locally and was turned down --- but their excuse was that I was too old
 
OkieFlyer said:
However, my sexist side says it's nice to see a pretty gal on the field from time to time too.
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As long as you're not engaging in inappropriate behavior, I don't see anything sexist about appreciating people whom you find attractive.
 
Palmpilot said:
As long as you're not engaging in inappropriate behavior, I don't see anything sexist about appreciating people whom you find attractive.
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Perfectly valid reply, however, I was trying to say politely that I love to see hot chicks at the airport! That may have been construed as sexist. :D
 
OkieFlyer said:
Perfectly valid reply, however, I was trying to say politely that I love to see hot chicks at the airport! That may have been construed as sexist. :D
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Jfc. That is not sexist, that is human.
 
Regina said:
A few guys I talked to insisted that the manager would take one look at me and decide that I want able to handle it physically and that I would end up in the office. Another guy said they would hire me for "political reasons" ( not sure what that means...) and that I would shuffle to lift an 80 pound hose until I finally "broke my body" or quit.
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Sounds rather insecure to me.

It looks like the question is not so much whether you can put up with the work but rather whether you can put up with some of the idiots working there.

Take the job if you can get in, see if it is for you. Dont allow anyone to reduce your opportunities to just being a pretty face at the desk.

As for the supposed dangers of dealing with fuels:
- Dont drink the Avgas 100LL. Any traces you may inhale will not be enough to give you any significant lead or toluene exposure.
- Use the personal protective equipment (PPE) provided. Goggles, gloves etc.
- Wash your hands before you eat, dont eat or smoke on the fuel truck, dont carry any food in your pockets.

Make sure you get proper training. You dont want to get yelled at for imploding the tanks on some bizjet or causing a 1mil fine for a fuel-spill.

It'll be work. But its work that allows you to hang around an airport.
 
Thank you everyone. I am definitely going to go for it!

Any recommendations of companies that are pretty decent to their crew?
I'm in the L.A area and was thinking of applying to signature, clay lacy, Atlantic , million aire or landmark .

Any of those stand out more than the others?
 
Ok, it looks none of those companies are hiring.
Are there any other FBOs I should try? I'm in the Burbank area but I'm willing to drive to long beach, van nuys , Santa Monica or even John Wayne if I have to.
 
I think there is a fair amount of turnover in most line service positions so if you are interested maybe you should go talk to them or submit a resume.
 
Regina said:
Ok, it looks none of those companies are hiring.
Are there any other FBOs I should try? I'm in the Burbank area but I'm willing to drive to long beach, van nuys , Santa Monica or even John Wayne if I have to.
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All of them
 
Regina said:
Thank you everyone. I am definitely going to go for it!

Any recommendations of companies that are pretty decent to their crew?
I'm in the L.A area and was thinking of applying to signature, clay lacy, Atlantic , million aire or landmark .

Any of those stand out more than the others?
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Be sure to update us when you get the job! :thumbsup:
 
Regina said:
Ok, it looks none of those companies are hiring.
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How did you assess that ? By looking at their websites ?

Come up with a resume, make the rounds, track down the managers, show your face, express an interest. These are not career jobs, people come and go, something will open up.
 
weilke said:
How did you assess that ? By looking at their websites ?

Come up with a resume, make the rounds, track down the managers, show your face, express an interest. These are not career jobs, people come and go, something will open up.
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I second that.

You need to make it know to the management that you are ready to go to work. If you can get to the boss, let him know you would love a position. Don't leave it to the clerk to pass it on.
 
Regina said:
Several of my buddies work at FBO's and I'd really love to get a job on the service line. I've checked out a few places online, and I think I can probably handle it.
The only thing that is kind of questionable is lifting the hoses over my head ( which, now that I think of it is... 90% of the job. :goofy:)

I'm pretty tough and 've always been a tomboy.
I won't get weird and prissy about emptying the lav but I'm not really sure if I can physically handle the lifting requirements.

I thought that as long as I can use the leverage of the hose over my shoulder I should be .. ok.. right?

Does anyone work on the line, can you give me an idea of what an average day is like and maybe any other things I should know before I apply?

Thanks!
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Just keep the hose off the wing - some owners are meticulous about hose smudges and rash.. use a mat. And thats good advice no matter what the gender.

No reason you cant do the job unless you are just physically unable.
 
OkieFlyer said:
I second that.

You need to make it know to the management that you are ready to go to work. If you can get to the boss, let him know you would love a position. Don't leave it to the clerk to pass it on.
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Agreed.....
 
Any Idea what the position would pay at a larger airport? I've looked on a few websites, and they do not list pay.
 
Regina said:
Thank you everyone. I am definitely going to go for it!

Any recommendations of companies that are pretty decent to their crew?
I'm in the L.A area and was thinking of applying to signature, clay lacy, Atlantic , million aire or landmark .

Any of those stand out more than the others?
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All of them.
Everskyward said:
I think there is a fair amount of turnover in most line service positions so if you are interested maybe you should go talk to them or submit a resume.
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I sent a resume into Cutter without a job opening listed. I was offered a job (I couldn't take it as it was overnights and I was looking for part-time work). I also walked into an FBO at KFLG and told the owner I wanted a job "When can you start?"
rrmkru said:
Any Idea what the position would pay at a larger airport? I've looked on a few websites, and they do not list pay.
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I'd say at a large place like Signature, Cutter, Atlantic, MillionAir etc to expect $12/13hr starting and a raise after 90 days. It costs a lot to train someone between the drug tests, background screenings and badges so they're making an investment in you.
 
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