Call briefer before every flight?

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yachtjim

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jim
In my training I was taught/required to call the briefer before every flight. I've since become so comfortable with my routine of checking wx, tfr's and notams that it's just a repeat of what I already know when I call the briefer. So I a, wondering how many of you call the briefer before every flight, or some flights, or never?
 
Almost never call a briefer, but always get a legal briefing.
 
Only for a final check of Notams (celebrity, political) after use of DUATS. For the rest of FSS they are so wordy and cumbersome I just can't stand it anymore.

Even when I call Flight Watch in the air, they just read you the script. It's like asking 20 questions to get what you need. As in yesterday, 2P2 to 3MY....

"Is there any convection south of MSN?
"It is the line along your route of flight".
"I can tell that. Is there any convection south of MSN?"
"yes, there is"
"Is there any convection between MSN and JVL?"
"Yes, along your route."
"Allright, is there any convection between JBL and RFD?"
"No, there is not".
"Thank you, good day."

Since I can see almot to JVL, the solution is to go under, in VMC.

They don't understand that he stromscope and the mark one eyeball combined are going to dictate- am I stopping right here? Am I able to see enought to go under, in VMC?

So, NO, I rarely call FSS anymore. And I'm just about ready to say, "good riddance".
 
An abbreviated briefing for TFRs aerodrome and runway closures takes maybe 2 minutes to obtain. I dont need someone to read the area forecast to me but to have someone state that there are no TFRs along my route of flight is something useful to have.
 
yachtjim said:
In my training I was taught/required to call the briefer before every flight. I've since become so comfortable with my routine of checking wx, tfr's and notams that it's just a repeat of what I already know when I call the briefer. So I a, wondering how many of you call the briefer before every flight, or some flights, or never?
Click to expand...

For VFR I don't use them for anything. My Dad is retired FSS and when he did it they were actually a valuable resource. Now a days you can do everything online. I get a better wx picture by looking at it myself. I have easy access to NOTAMs and TFRs. I don't use them to file VFR because 90 % of the time ATC is giving me flight following. So no, I don't use them for anything.
 
For local flights, not normally. When I go cross country, or near larger airports, like Orlando or Tampa, I'll get a brief to check the notams. Here is Florida the weather changes so fast it's almost a mute point get a weather briefing.
 
If I need a briefing I call, If I need to file I call, I just don't like using a computer for those things unless I'm just looking at the radar pic before jumping to the Bahamas or something. I still preferred it when I could just walk into the on field FSS and have a cup of their coffee and sit down and go over it with them. I still remember several times when the briefer, typically a AF trained meteorologist, would be going ove it with me and say, "yeah, this isn't right, that's not what's gonna happen, what you want to do is go down here and use this pass because by the time you get to that one the winds are gonna be terrible coming off that range..." I really miss that level of service. Now the guy I'm talking to I generally just looking at the same web based info I can look at, but quite often I'll get a 'hang on and let me look at something, something's not right here...' and they find something they remembered in the NOTAMs from yesterday that got missed on today's, not to mention they can whip through the relevant FDC NOTAMS and filter what I need and not a heck of a lot faster than I can. I just still prefer human interaction, what can I say.
 
Recently I filed via telephone because an RCO was OTS and it was painful. The guy kept asking a question, putting me on hold to call ZDV, and then back for another question, then hold, three or four times.

A pop-up (it was night VMC) would have been smarter and easier, considering there were almost no aircraft in the sector or anywhere for that matter.

I mostly did it just for the practice. Probably won't do it again voluntarily. ;)
 
Only for longer flights to areas with which I'm not as familiar as my local area. It's not hard to miss relevant NOTAMs (yes, I have done so, and FSS picked it out) for a long route, when wading through all the gibberish online. And it's reassuring to have, "No TFRs along your route of flight" on tape. Unless I have a specific question though, I just request an abbreviated briefing for NOTAMs and TFRs rather than fall asleep listening to 15 minutes of unhelpful script-reading.

But for local/familiar flights, it's ForeFlight/DUATS and my favorite weather site(s) of the day. And yes, I DO check those sources for EVERY flight.
 
Anytime I'm going someplace unfamiliar, I'll use the briefer. They will have a much better idea about local weather behaviors than DUATS, and they are much more responsive to questions.

For local or more routine flights, I'll use them about half the time, and the rest using DUATS or the AOPA Flight Planner (which is itself DUATS).

DUATS has some serious interface issues that make it not sufficient by itself. In particular, the graphical AIRMET product in ADDS (or something like it) really is essential. It also gives massive amounts of extraneous data to wade through.
 
I havent called a briefer in several years. There are much better and easier ways to get a legal briefing.
 
MAKG1 said:
They will have a much better idea about local weather behaviors than DUATS
Click to expand...

Hardly. Since Lockheed took the contract and moved everyone to a centralized location, there are no longer experts on local weather at our disposal.
 
I rely on online DUATS, ForeFlight Wx information, and TFR.gov.

What I hate is calling flight watch for an update enroute, you begged off of ATC freq to do it and then they start the 20 questions and mandatory statements before they get to what you need. Sorry, don't have the time, gotta go.
 
I only call a briefer for filing a flight plan. I get the weather via Internet access through a computer but mostly through my iPhone and XM\WX. I found weather through the Internet\XM gives you a more complete picture than what the briefer can tell me. When filing I just tell the briefer that I got the WX from the NOAA website and they are happy with it.

José
 
CMTowner said:
For local flights, not normally. When I go cross country, or near larger airports, like Orlando or Tampa, I'll get a brief to check the notams. Here is Florida the weather changes so fast it's almost a mute point get a weather briefing.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. In the afternoon you could see the cumulus growing in front of you. I found WX\XM to be more helpful and accurate than what the briefer told you half hour ago.

José
 
I like the FltPlan QICP briefing with my smartphone internet, it's legal, logged and quick.






FltPlan.com said:
FltPlan.com is an FAA approved source of aviation weather.
FltPlan.com is certified by the FAA as a QICP (Qualified Internet Communications Provider) for weather and notams. Part 135 and Part 121 operators may list FltPlan.com (FltPlan LLC) as an FAA approved QICP for weather and notams in their OpSpecs.


FltPlan's Quality of Service (QOS) Agreement to QICP users
FltPlan's QICP weather will meet these standards: Reliabilty: No outages lasting longer than 10 minutes, and no more than 30 minutes of total outages in a continuous 3-month period.
Accessibility: FltPlan will initiate transmission of requested data during transactions with 100% of our users within 2 minutes.
Security: FltPlan will maintain Internet site authentication and maintain data integrity.
Retrievable Archive: FltPlan will maintain a retrievable archive of data received and provided in each transaction for a period of no less than 15 days after the date of the transaction.

FAA Disclaimer This Qualified Internet Communications Provider's (QICP) servers and communication interfaces are approved by the FAA as secure, reliable and accessible in accordance with AC00-62.
This QICP approval does not ensure the quality and currency of the information transmitted to you. The user assumes the entire risk related to the information and its use.
User Complaints and Comments FltPlan will acknowledge and address user QOS complaints within 14 calendar days of receipt.
Complaints and Comments can be sent to Support@FltPlan.com
Click to expand...
 
Never. I always just check aviationweather.gov
 
Well let's see. Last time I got a briefing from FSS, they neglected to mention that my destination airport was closed. So yeah... haven't called them back (except for checking status of TFRs where, as I understand it, I'm off the hook if they give me bad info).

I prefer getting a briefing online. It's not ideal, cause there's still a ton of info I don't care about, but I feel i can skim through the stuff I don't need at least as fast as the briefer can read it to me.

I do the online briefing even if i've looked at weather and notams elsewhere.
 
I check for NOTAMS and TFRs before any flight, unless it is just around the pattern. I just call, while driving to the airport.
 
I call every time before a flight. What's the big deal? It seems like the more information you can get from every source possible, the better off you'll be.
 
bbchien said:
Only for a final check of Notams (celebrity, political) after use of DUATS. For the rest of FSS they are so wordy and cumbersome I just can't stand it anymore.

Even when I call Flight Watch in the air, they just read you the script. It's like asking 20 questions to get what you need. As in yesterday, 2P2 to 3MY....

"Is there any convection south of MSN?
"It is the line along your route of flight".
"I can tell that. Is there any convection south of MSN?"
"yes, there is"
"Is there any convection between MSN and JVL?"
"Yes, along your route."
"Allright, is there any convection between JBL and RFD?"
"No, there is not".
"Thank you, good day."

Since I can see almot to JVL, the solution is to go under, in VMC.

They don't understand that he stromscope and the mark one eyeball combined are going to dictate- am I stopping right here? Am I able to see enought to go under, in VMC?

So, NO, I rarely call FSS anymore. And I'm just about ready to say, "good riddance".
Click to expand...

The biggest problem I have with FSS briefers is that they're typically in Phoenix or Florida without much real world Montana weather experience. In MT there are always "Mountain Obscurations". If I cancelled a flight every time I heard or read "Mountain Obscurations" I'd never fly. They get extra excited about Mountain Obscurations... and go into CMA mode to the point that it's annyoying. My reply is "If I maintain VFR there is little chance I'll fly into a mountain without being able to see it" I'm more interested in ceilings and the weather systems that are headed this way but they ALWAYS want to discuss Mountain Obscurations... It's getting to be like the little boy who cried wolf, we just ignore anything they say about MTN OBSC. On a side note NOAA/NWS is on the field at MSO, I took some ground school with the guy who types in the METARs and TAFs, you can call them up directly, they'll give a blurb about not being official but give you a MUCH better briefing than FSS, they actually speak like humans.
 
So what are the alternative "legal" ways to get a briefing?

I normally start with a weather site, then use fltplan.com, then may check some other resources if there is anything adverse like garmin pilot on my iPad or aopa flight planner. Then finally I have xm wx in the plane. So I am fairly certain I cover all of the bases, but at no point do I think I am getting a legal brief. So how do you get a legal brief without calling the briefer?
 
If it's a big flight, I'll get a briefing with a real person. If I'm just noodling around the pattern, I'll probably just look at DUATS. I've never had bad experiences with FSS. One time, I had the slowest briefer in the world. He was agonizingly slow.
 
yachtjim said:
So what are the alternative "legal" ways to get a briefing?

I normally start with a weather site, then use fltplan.com, then may check some other resources if there is anything adverse like garmin pilot on my iPad or aopa flight planner. Then finally I have xm wx in the plane. So I am fairly certain I cover all of the bases, but at no point do I think I am getting a legal brief. So how do you get a legal brief without calling the briefer?
Click to expand...

DUAT(S) log in.
 
I get a weather briefing through Foreflight and my DUATS account is registered in Foreflight. Does this mean that DUATS has a record that I checked weather?
 
MBDiagMan said:
I get a weather briefing through Foreflight and my DUATS account is registered in Foreflight. Does this mean that DUATS has a record that I checked weather?
Click to expand...

Yes, In Foreflight you log into DUATS with your user name and password just like you do when you're on a PC
 
MBDiagMan said:
I get a weather briefing through Foreflight and my DUATS account is registered in Foreflight. Does this mean that DUATS has a record that I checked weather?
Click to expand...

I think many of the third party programs run through DUAT(S) for the briefing so yeah, it's all good.
 
yachtjim said:
So what are the alternative "legal" ways to get a briefing?

I normally start with a weather site, then use fltplan.com, then may check some other resources if there is anything adverse like garmin pilot on my iPad or aopa flight planner. Then finally I have xm wx in the plane. So I am fairly certain I cover all of the bases, but at no point do I think I am getting a legal brief. So how do you get a legal brief without calling the briefer?
Click to expand...

ForeFlight's briefing function also serves as a legal briefing. They have QICP approval like FltPlan and others: http://blog.foreflight.com/2012/07/18/foreflight-earns-faas-qicp-certification/
 
Inverted said:
Hardly. Since Lockheed took the contract and moved everyone to a centralized location, there are no longer experts on local weather at our disposal.
Click to expand...

This. You may very well get routed to a briefer hundreds of miles from you that has no clue. Even worse for us in the DC area, the briefer may have no clue how to file an SFRA flight plan (VFR). I've had two times now where they had to transfer me to someone else (additional delay), and one time where they said "shouldn't you be calling the special number for Leesburg?" (that's only required for an FRZ flight plan).

Even worse, sometimes flight plans filed with FSS don't make it into the system. I was left holding at Brooke (BRV) one day headed back into the SFRA when the briefer either filed the wrong type of flight plan or it didn't make it into the system.

Mike I said:
ForeFlight's briefing function also serves as a legal briefing. They have QICP approval like FltPlan and others: http://blog.foreflight.com/2012/07/18/foreflight-earns-faas-qicp-certification/
Click to expand...

It is, but I've noted on any number of occasions that it either screws up the order of multi-part NOTAMS or drops some parts altogether. That appears to be an issue in the parsing of the briefing. Noted multiple times with the DC area TFR/SFRA NOTAMS. I've also recently started getting "Route not found (NULL)" errors when trying to bring up a route I just used - end up recreating the route. FF is good, but it's far from perfect.

Being in the SFRA, I do use briefers more often than some. Usually when I'm out at the hangar & decide to "go" but don't have/can't pull up an internet connection on the spot. I'll already have the briefing, just need the flight plan filed. Yeah, I can set up a hotspot with a cellphone, but sometimes have spotty signal meaning it can take longer than a call. A call saves some time on a final TFR check.
 
bartmc said:
The biggest problem I have with FSS briefers is that they're typically in Phoenix or Florida without much real world Montana weather experience. In MT there are always "Mountain Obscurations". If I cancelled a flight every time I heard or read "Mountain Obscurations" I'd never fly. They get extra excited about Mountain Obscurations... and go into CMA mode to the point that it's annyoying. My reply is "If I maintain VFR there is little chance I'll fly into a mountain without being able to see it" I'm more interested in ceilings and the weather systems that are headed this way but they ALWAYS want to discuss Mountain Obscurations... It's getting to be like the little boy who cried wolf, we just ignore anything they say about MTN OBSC. On a side note NOAA/NWS is on the field at MSO, I took some ground school with the guy who types in the METARs and TAFs, you can call them up directly, they'll give a blurb about not being official but give you a MUCH better briefing than FSS, they actually speak like humans.
Click to expand...

+1........

I LOVE living in the mountains... I HATE the term "mountain obscuration"..

Like Bart said, when you tell the briefer you are VFR then that alone should negate the MTN OBSC preaching..:yesnod:
 
My home airport is 100 mile drive. So, I do not mind calling and getting a standard briefing every time I drive. Helps me pass the time.
 
I used to, but Foreflight gives me everything the briefer will tell me and more - and right on the map. Now that Foreflight serves as a "legal brief" that's even one less reason to call FSS.
 
Almost always - to get the "No TFRs along your route of flight" on the tape.
Otherwise; I use online services for my wx needs.
 
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I call before every flight during my drive to the airport. I still do my own briefing online and check radar,etc to visualize what they will bring up during briefing.
 
So is fltplan.com a legal brief? It uses my DUATS info. So does garmin Pilot.
 
"Legal briefing" is a confusing term in the context of Part 91. 91.103 doesn't specify sources. AIM 7-1-3 explicitly states that QICP requirements only apply to 121 / 135.

"Official" and "recorded" yes (for DUAT/DUATS/AFSS), but calling those the "legal" sources suggests there is something less-than-legal involved in using others, which isn't the case for Part 91. Is it? :eek:

Oh, FWIW, I call for the TFRs/NOTAMs as a CYA precaution too.
 
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