buying your first plane

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Whiskey

Filing Flight Plan
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Whiskey
I'm the kind of person to look ahead and plan things out as best as I can.
I was wondering what everyones thoughts are on what a newly certified pilot should buy for his/her first plane.

Guide Lines:
*nothing too expensive: < 35k (Newbie)
*practical for beginners: easy to operate and maintain
*be nice to have a decent range: traveling
*at least a two seater

Thanks everyone :D

*I might be a little unrealistic with the price but if I am just tell me based on my guide-lines how much a plane with those capabilities/attributes would really be*
 
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Decent old straight tail 172s can be had for less than that.
Half that will get an ok 150, but if you're in FLG, Williams, or INW you'd be spending a lot of time in ground effect.
 
Cherokees can be had for that easily. Two seats, with two back seats in case you want to take you good midget couples with you. Four to five hundred nautical mile range for traveling, and nothing is easier to fly and land. You might even find one with sufficient doo-dads to do your IFR.

And they're a few knots faster than skyhawks too.
 
Figure out your mission. Then find the aircraft that meet it. Now look at those aircraft and pick the one that "speaks" to you that you love to look at and fly.

There are so many different types of airplanes capable of very similar missions.
 
And don't forget the resale market as well. You won't be owning that plane forever. You might want to upgrade, downgrade, or get out of aviation altogether.
 
Whiskey said:
I'm the kind of person to look ahead and plan things out as best as I can.
I was wondering what everyones thoughts are on what a newly certified pilot should buy for his/her first plane.

Guide Lines:
*nothing too expensive: < 35k (Newbie)
*practical for beginners: easy to operate and maintain
*be nice to have a decent range: traveling
*at least a two seater

Thanks everyone :D

*I might be a little unrealistic with the price but if I am just tell me based on my guide-lines how much a plane with those capabilities/attributes would really be*
Click to expand...

My first plane (what I owned myself)

* ~$20K Check.
* Rag and tube homebuilt. Double check.
* Range / speed - not so good. But I needed LSA qualified.
* Seats. Two. Check
* Easy to fly. Check (It does have a tailwheel and likes to bounce. But part of that may be the ham fist on the stick - no wait, it's my progressive bifocals - that's why it bounces. Yea, blame the glasses)
 
Whiskey said:
I'm the kind of person to look ahead and plan things out as best as I can.
I was wondering what everyones thoughts are on what a newly certified pilot should buy for his/her first plane.

Guide Lines:
*nothing too expensive: < 35k (Newbie)
*practical for beginners: easy to operate and maintain
*be nice to have a decent range: traveling
*at least a two seater

Thanks everyone :D

*I might be a little unrealistic with the price but if I am just tell me based on my guide-lines how much a plane with those capabilities/attributes would really be*
Click to expand...


This is kind of a Ford/Chevy question in that everyone will have their own opinion. As Jesse says, figure your mission and find what suits it. It looks like you are already thinking that way since you listed a few parameters.

For me, I had to have low fuel burn rate and grass strip capabilities, so a two place tail dragger was all that would work for me.

If you don't mind 10 gallons/hour and a sort of cramped four place, a Cherokee 180 might work for you. A 150 would work if your two back seaters are small children. Get one with 50 gallon long range tanks and you'll have an easy to fly, statistically safe and reliable plane for your first.

A Cherokee was my choice until I threw in the grass strip part of my mission. A 172 of course, would fill the bill as well. Cherokee vs. 172 is probably that emotional, Ford/Chevy element of the decision.

Good luck and keep us posted as your thought process moves along.

Doc
 
Buy it run out (and make it how you want it)

or

Buy it pimped out (turn key, low times, just how you want it)

They stuff in between has for more potential to surprise you in a way you wont like.
 
taters said:
Buy it run out (and make it how you want it)

or

Buy it pimped out (turn key, low times, just how you want it)

They stuff in between has for more potential to surprise you in a way you wont like.
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A problem with buying it "pimped out" is that you really can't be sure all those goodies will last longer the flight back to your home base.
 
taters said:
Buy it run out (and make it how you want it)

or

Buy it pimped out (turn key, low times, just how you want it)

They stuff in between has for more potential to surprise you in a way you wont like.
Click to expand...

And the problem with buying it run out is you'll never get back what you have into it.

I bought my Cherokee 140 for $17K, spent $19K on the engine and sold it for $20K.
 
MBDiagMan said:
A Cherokee was my choice until I threw in the grass strip part of my mission.

Doc
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I didn't know Cherokees can't operate on grass. Lynn, Nick, Jesse, Steingar, Kevin, Dad....do your Cherokees not operate on grass? I know mine worked fine for 400ish hours with a lot of grass strip time.
 
EdFred said:
I didn't know Cherokees can't operate on grass. Lynn, Nick, Jesse, Steingar, Kevin, Dad....do your Cherokees not operate on grass? I know mine worked fine for 400ish hours with a lot of grass strip time.
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On a rough 1,500 feet strip on a hot Texas day?
 
Bob Noel said:
A problem with buying it "pimped out" is that you really can't be sure all those goodies will last longer the flight back to your home base.
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fair point..some goodies could do what ever they want at any time on any flight...but it is the mid-time engines that have the most grief to offer IMO. How does one know exactly how long something has sat around etc? I have been involved in quite a few purchases, the folks that got that 0 SMOH plane with a nice stack haven't regretted it, the folks that found an old C140 air-frame in a barn and gave it new life haven't regretted it, they knew what they were starting with.

I have bought 2 mid-time planes that bit me in the ass, now they are as nice as I though they were, after wheelbarrows of cash of course.
 
I joined a club and am thinking about building a Vans RV-9A, so I have access to 4 planes now while building my own plane that will be cheap to run, and cheap to maintain. Also, it lands like a Cherokee and cruises like a Corvalis (while using as much fuel as the Cherokee). So if you like to think ahead that may be an option for you.
 
Bobcat1 said:
Decent old straight tail 172s can be had for less than that.
Half that will get an ok 150, but if you're in FLG, Williams, or INW you'd be spending a lot of time in ground effect.
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That's why I'm getting a C-182P. KFLG has a 7000 feet field elevation, serious density altitude in summer, I wanna carry full grown humans, and would like to fly a few hours without refueling. :wink2:

Oh yeah, and my inner bush pilot would like to someday venture onto grass and other such strips in the great SW USA.

There are some older C-182s that could fit the budget if you are OK with a vintage model that is still flyable/safe. I was recently offered a 1/3 share of a 1963(??) C-182 for ~$18K. It was a reliable flyer that has taken it's owners LOTS of places. :thumbsup:
 
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EdFred said:
I didn't know Cherokees can't operate on grass. Lynn, Nick, Jesse, Steingar, Kevin, Dad....do your Cherokees not operate on grass? I know mine worked fine for 400ish hours with a lot of grass strip time.
Click to expand...

They can't, but those fools do it.
 
You'll get more for your money with a Cherokee. They run about 20-25% less than comparable Cessnas because people learn in Cessnas and don't want to change.
$35k will get you a Cherokee 180, IFR, with a enroute/terminal IFR GPS.

I don't think the Cherokee or 172 is inherently better than the other, they are dead comparable. But there's a significant difference in purchase price that you can take advantage of.
 
Also planes aren't like cars or motorcycles - don't buy something little with the intent of getting something bigger. They are expensive to buy and more expensive to sell. If you think you need a six seater retract, wait a while, rent, save up and then get it. Don't get a 150 and fly it for a year then sell it to get a 182 or a Bonanza.
 
eMKay said:
I joined a club and am thinking about building a Vans RV-9A, so I have access to 4 planes now while building my own plane that will be cheap to run, and cheap to maintain. Also, it lands like a Cherokee and cruises like a Corvalis (while using as much fuel as the Cherokee). So if you like to think ahead that may be an option for you.
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Which that? The delusion or the hallucination you wrote above? None of what you said except for joining a club and things related thereto is accurate. You may believe that, but it is not true, and the reality is there is about a .5% chance you will build a 9A. I wouldn't have a RV anything A, but I wouldn't mind an 8 all too much, or a Harmon Rocket, I could build an ubercool and sleak set of floats for it.

You do not fly Experimental AB to save money. You fly Ex-AB to fly planes that aren't otherwise available.

If you want to actually build an Ex-AB aircraft to fly, pick a model that has a "Build at the Factory" program. They have all the tools, they know all the tricks. You're flying in 2 months.
 
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Some people say to buy your last plane first... figure out what you want and need for the mission, and buy it. Otherwise you may spend a lot of money fixing up a lesser plane, only to sell it a year or two later at a loss. There is some validity to this. It's not that difficult to transition to a higher performance plane, although the insurance may sting the first year!

Personally I bought a Cherokee 140 as my first plane. Four years later I sold it and bought my first Bonanza. Plane prices were rising, so I actually sold the Cherokee for more than I paid for it - which is unlikely to happen now.

Don't assume that the high performance plane with higher hourly fuel consumption will use more gas on a trip. In many cases they will use the same or less gas, as they are cleaner (such as a retract). This may not matter for those who will be doing local flights only though.

Warning: the dramatic difference in climb rate between a low powered trainer and a higher performance plane can be addictive.
 
dmac5356 said:
Some people say to buy your last plane first .
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If only money was free...but I agree 100% I have no problem saving my a$$ off for my dream bonanza...but I may only live to fly it for a day.
 
taters said:
If only money was free...but I agree 100% I have no problem saving my a$$ off for my dream bonanza...but I may only live to fly it for a day.
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+1...
 
jesse said:
Now look at those aircraft and pick the one that "speaks" to you that you love to look at and fly.
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There is some truth there ... after over 7 years ownership, I still practically giggle when I see my girl in the hanger. The fact that she's a joy to fly and will carry 1,000lbs 600NMs in style keeps her "useful" but the fact that I LOVE flying her and looking at her keeps the relationship fresh. :)
 
PilotAlan said:
You'll get more for your money with a Cherokee. They run about 20-25% less than comparable Cessnas because people learn in Cessnas and don't want to change.
$35k will get you a Cherokee 180, IFR, with a enroute/terminal IFR GPS.

I don't think the Cherokee or 172 is inherently better than the other, they are dead comparable. But there's a significant difference in purchase price that you can take advantage of.
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I think that this is very well put. The only small change I would put in this mix would be that STATISTICALLY, the Cherokee has a slightly better safety record making insurance a little less. It still is very much a wash between the two except for the initial cost.

My $0.02,
Doc
 
taters said:
If only money was free...but I agree 100% I have no problem saving my a$$ off for my dream bonanza...but I may only live to fly it for a day.
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I wasn't smart enough to plan ahead and do it right, but I was LUCKY enough to do it right.

To the OP, I'd suggest looking around for a good partnership. I bought into a really nice 172N for ... $15k, I think. Hourly costs were <$50 wet and the plane was always available. Flew it everywhere and the kids seemed to have grown up in the back seat. After a few years, I purchased my own plane. She may not be the last I ever own, but I have a hard time imagining a place in time where I would sell her because I'm moving up to something bigger / better.

If you can find a good partnership;
1) it is easier to get into / out of than sole ownership,
2) you get more plane for your money (the 172N had enroute IFR GPS, RNAV and Strikefinder),
3) ongoing costs are much lower than sole ownership,
4) you can ease into the ownership process by picking up more responsibility with the partnership over time,
5) you can get to a point in life where your desires for more plane, your financial ability and your real knowledge of what you NEED truly match.

Best of luck with it.
 
6) you get to fight with your partner(s) over who gets the plane what weekend.
 
iflyforfun said:
There is some truth there ... after over 7 years ownership, I still practically giggle when I see my girl in the hanger. The fact that she's a joy to fly and will carry 1,000lbs 600NMs in style keeps her "useful" but the fact that I LOVE flying her and looking at her keeps the relationship fresh. :)
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What are you flying, how fast does it go, how much fuel does it drink?
 
taters said:
If only money was free...but I agree 100% I have no problem saving my a$$ off for my dream bonanza...but I may only live to fly it for a day.
Click to expand...

With plane prices falling you can find nice complex aircraft at trainer prices. You do need to "learn how to own" it though. If you toss the keys and a credit card to a shop, there is no limit to the magnitude of the bills!

Insurance prices have come down too... I just received my bill, down to $900/yr.
 
Jaybird180 said:
What are you flying, how fast does it go, how much fuel does it drink?
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Velocity (small body, gull wing doors, short wing)
145kts - ish (no wheel pants & gross, down low - 135kts, wheel pants, light and up high - 152kts)
10gph
 
EdFred said:
6) you get to fight with your partner(s) over who gets the plane what weekend.
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With the right partnership, this doesn't have to be an issue. In two years, the plane was not available to me when I wanted it a grand total of two times. Having a total of 2-4 partners is ideal in that it substantially reduces cost without effectively impacting availability. We had rotating "priority" weeks when the priority pilot could fly anytime and as much as he/she wanted. Everyone else just had to check with the "priority" pilot to see if the plane was available or booked. Given that many pilots only log 50 or so hours a year, availability just isn't a problem with a small group - but cutting your hanger and annual expense in half or to a quarter of total really impacts the fixed cost of flying. Also, we had the ability to trade priority weeks, so we could schedule trips out in advance and even had the plane available for 2 week blocks if you REALLY wanted it that way ... don't think we ever did.

The trick, as with everything in life, is to avoid the idiots as much as possible and learn to be a bit flexible. If you are compulsive and controlling and have plenty of free cash, buy your own plane. If you can play in the sand box with the other kids and find others that play well too, a partnership can offer some real advantages.
 
Look around your local airport and see what's available for sale. Insofar as MX is concerned, the advice to "select your mechanic before you select your airplane" has proven to be an excellent strategy.

Stated differently, the pre-buy inspection should be performed by the mechanic who will maintain the airplane for you. If you skip that step, you can expect the "dumber than a box of rocks" award to soon arrive on your doorstep.
 
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