Buying a Plane Pre-Lessons

[braceletwinner]

I’m about to start my Private Pilot lessons. I noticed that renting a 172 from the flight school will end up costing me around $5000-$6000, depending on how long I take to complete. I’m in a good position financially, so I thought buying a plane would be better than essentially “wasting” $5000+, plus I’d still have a plane to fly when I got my license. I’ve noticed several planes in the $25,000 range that I can just pay cash for, so I don’t think finding an inexpensive trainer will be an issue. (I’ve read enough about what to look for when buying a plane, and I have several friends that are pilots, so I’m not very concerned about buying something that’s wrong for me.)

My question is, what do I do once I’ve picked out the plane I want to buy, assuming it’s not local? I’m sure that I would need to hire someone to check out the plane’s condition and logs. Is there a good way to find someone to do that? Also, what is the standard procedure on payment if it’s an individual seller and not a broker? A deposit until I can get to the plane to give the seller a check? Is there a standard contract for buying a plane out-of-state? I know I’d need to negotiate most things directly with the seller, I just wanted to know if there’s a usual way to handle these types of transactions.

What’s a typical delivery charge if I can’t negotiate pick-up/delivery with the seller? Just an hourly rate to the pilot plus return travel expenses? What is a decent hourly rate for that? Or is it much more involved than that?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

[tonycondon]

most ferry pilots charge a daily rate plus expenses.

as far as finidng someone to do a pre-buy, posting on forums like this is a good way to get local non biased mechanic recommendations.

for a cheap trainer though i'd try to find something local. Cessna built 20,000+ 172's, its not like they are rare.

 

[JHW]

buying a plane to learn in can be a great advantage, or it can be a nightmare. The difference is finding a mentor to walk you through the decisions that need to be made. Who do you know locally who owns a plane and can help you?

Don't be turned off by people saying it's a bad idea. Most of the people who will say renting is better, don't know any differently because they've never owned anything. But you do need help in-person, not on the internet.

btw where are you located ?

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

AOPA has some purchase agreement templates. (I assume they still have the free 6 month membership).

The rest is pretty much whatever you and the owner can agree on. Just like buying a used car.

 

[flhrci]

I have never owned before but it sounds like it would be nice and give you more flexibility to take lessons because of aircraft availability.

From a CFI point of view however, make sure wherever you go for instruction will allow you to use your own plane. Secondly, make sure your CFI is covered by either his or your insurance. I would not think it would ever be a problem but making sure is just protection for your plane.

David

 

[alfadog]

I am two years into my first owned airplane so feel a bit qualified to tell you it is a bad idea. LOL.

That was a bit of a joke but seriously, this is what I think I have learned on that front. I think it ties a bit to "buy your last airplane first". I.e., do not buy an airplane to train in if that airplane does not meet your longer term mission. Not forever mission, just for the next few years.

Why? Because there are a lot of costs involved in airplane ownership and they can seriously add up in the first year or two as you bring your "new-to-you" airplane up to snuff. And a lot of that is money you will not get back. What is the cost of renting that bird at the FBO for your PPL. You need to figure dry because you will pay fuel in any event. Say the dry cost is $75/hr (and that is high as my club C172's go for $40/hour dry; $75/hr is based on normal FBO rates of $125/hr or so wet) and you use it 50 hours for your PPL. That is less than $4k. You will spend a lot more than that on insurance, tiedown, engine reserve, maintenance, first annual, etc. over the course of the PPL in your "new" airplane. And that is OK if the airplane fits your longer mission and you will own it for a few years. If you are just buying it to train in and it does not meet your longer-term mission then it is a bad idea.

Oh, and I am happy with my airplane as the one that will suit my needs for the foreseeable future.

ps, I apologize for addressing some of the other thoughts in the thread so far and not actually addressing your questions. I bought my airplane locally and asked around the field for a recommended mechanic to do a pre-buy so cannot speak to many of your questions directly. I will stress that you need to pay for a complete and competent pre-buy and be prepared to "lose" that money if the airplane is not in right condition. Not how I did it but I think you can save quite a bit by having the pre-buy mechanic do a log and AD review first and if that looks good, then tear into the airplane. Do not let your desire to own lead you to a bad decision. There are lots of fish in that sea!

 

[rbridges]

Like John said above, a 172 will burn 9 gallons/hr give or take. Fuel is 5.30/gallon at my airport, so lets say $50/hr is going towards fuel. If you own the plane, you have to pay storage (hangar or tie down), insurance (not super cheap since you have no license and very little time) and any maintenance that occurs--oil changes, annuals, any unforseen issues.

IIRC, a friend let me use his cherokee 180 if I paid costs to maintain it. The insurance was around $1000k for the year based on a 50K hull value.

I've seen people unloading their 150 or 152 after getting a PPL, and that may not be a bad idea, but it does burden you with buying a plane and then selling it later.

 

[John221us]

I bought a plane after about 10 hours of training (a Cherokee 140). I don't regret it, but it will probably not save you any money. I hired an independent A&P, who was recommended to me (and cheap) to do the pre-buy and he did a terrible job, so I ended up with $10,000+ in work after my first annual. Also, there were quite a few clues in the log books, that I didn't really know how to read into at the time. I wish I had bought a little more plane, because the panel is not adequate for IR training and will cost me North of $10K to get it there, which probably isn't worth it on a Cherokee (though I will probably do it anyway), so think ahead a little, as mentioned. It is easy to say trade up, but I listed the plane last year and didn't get any calls in about a 6 week period. I do love the freedom and peace of mind of owning, though, so like I said, I don't regret it, I just regret not doing my due dilligence on the purchase.

 

[steingar]

I bought my own plane and trained in it. My suggestions, based on my own experience are to buy something you think will match what you want to do. If you don't know, keep renting, it'll be cheaper in the long run.

Try and find an example locally, purchasing one at a distance adds an extra level of complexity you just don't need. Not that it can't be done, but it is more difficult.

Check around your home airport and think about where you're going to keep your aircraft. Can you get a hangar? What do they cost? If you have to tie it down, what are your options for pre-heat if you live in a cold climate?

Is there a repair station on your home airport? If so, you'll want the mechanic there to look over your intended purchase. Most here will say an annual is in order, and while I don't disagree I've had pre buy inspections serve me well. They're cheaper and more easily arranged as well.

It is a genuine crapshoot whether your aircraft will enhance or degrade your training experience. Bad mechanical troubles cost money and sideline your airplane. Also, they can be difficult to unload, especially if you want to recoup all your expended funds. But you do have tremendous flexibility and can use it whenever you want. I doubt too many CFIs will have a problem with it.

And, you'll have an airplane to fly always available after you get your PPL. And you'll learn a great deal about airplane ownership that no CFI will teach you.

 

[alfadog]

I bought a plane after about 10 hours of training (a Cherokee 140). I don't regret it, but it will probably not save you any money. I hired an independent A&P, who was recommended to me (and cheap) to do the pre-buy and he did a terrible job, so I ended up with $10,000+ in work after my first annual. Also, there were quite a few clues in the log books, that I didn't really know how to read into at the time. I wish I had bought a little more plane, because the panel is not adequate for IR training and will cost me North of $10K to get it there, which probably isn't worth it on a Cherokee (though I will probably do it anyway), so think ahead a little, as mentioned. It is easy to say trade up, but I listed the plane last year and didn't get any calls in about a 6 week period. I do love the freedom and peace of mind of owning, though, so like I said, I don't regret it, I just regret not doing my due dilligence on the purchase.

I feel ya. I was also totally ignorant of airplane ownership and went with a recommended mechanic. He also did a half-assed job and, among other things, missed that the airplane had prior hurricane damage (it was in the log) which I think came back to haunt my insurance company to the tune of $8k. That said, I do like the airplane but might have been better off looking a bit harder and longer.

 

[Gerhardt]

Having been both an owner and a renter, I wouldn't buy before starting training for a few reasons. First, many students don't complete their training. Over the years I've seen two students buy planes to train in and then had a hard time selling them when they quit their lessons.

More important, while you're taking lessons you can look at and fly different planes. Why commit to a 172 only to discover later that you like the feel of a Cherokee?

Don't feel like you're throwing away five grand on rental. There's a steep price for ownership including the up-front cost, inspections, maintenance and don't think that insurance will be inexpensive. Not a single person who has ever owned and rented will tell you that it's cheaper to own. It's not. It's just that by owning you have more control over how you fly, when you fly, and then there's the pride of ownership thing.

Just as you don't want to rush through your lessons, don't rush into buying a plane. Take your time and enjoy it. It's fun to browse at aircraft for sale. Kick a few tires and enjoy the window shopping. Eventually you'll find one that you just can't live without.

 

[steingar]

I hired an independent A&P, who was recommended to me (and cheap) to do the pre-buy and he did a terrible job, so I ended up with $10,000+ in work after my first annual.

The one thing I did right was have the same mechanic do the pre-buy as the next annual. Had he given me a big bill I could have yelled at him fro a lousy pre-buy. Indeed it all worked out pretty well.

Not saying it couldn't have gone the other way.

 

[alfadog]

And, you'll have an airplane to fly always available after you get your PPL. And you'll learn a great deal about airplane ownership that no CFI will teach you.

I think this is a good point. It sounds like the OP can afford the ownership. Just do your due diligence to do as much as possible to make sure you get a good one. Nothing is guaranteed but 172's are sturdy birds. You will likely spend considerably more on your airplane over the first 100 hours than if you had rented but so what? It is your airplane and you are getting a fairly cheap first lesson in airplane ownership.

 

[John221us]

The one thing I did right was have the same mechanic do the pre-buy as the next annual. Had he given me a big bill I could have yelled at him fro a lousy pre-buy. Indeed it all worked out pretty well.

Not saying it couldn't have gone the other way.

Well... that was my intention, but I lost confidence in the guy after a bit more work and changed to the shop that was on the field. I have spent a lot of money, but at least now, I feel like the plane is well maintained. I went with a recommendation that didn't work out. There were some clues, like I asked about his checklist for the pre-buy and he didn't really have one. You live and learn. I am just trying to share my experience, which may not be typical. Clearly I could have done better.

 

[steingar]

Well... that was my intention, but I lost confidence in the guy after a bit more work and changed to the shop that was on the field. I have spent a lot of money, but at least now, I feel like the plane is well maintained. I went with a recommendation that didn't work out. There were some clues, like I asked about his checklist for the pre-buy and he didn't really have one. You live and learn. I am just trying to share my experience, which may not be typical. Clearly I could have done better.

You did what you did. Didn't mean to denigrate your choices, just illustrate a counter example. Odds are you did fine. You always pay. My airplane was completely restored with all new instruments and I've still have some nasty annuals. You always pay sooner or later. Unless you're a mechanic. Then you always work sooner or later.

 

[braceletwinner]

I appreciate all of the fast responses and the warnings about cost of ownership. I have considered that as well, and my goal was to buy a plane that I’d be happy flying for a while after getting my license. I’m prepared to put more money into the plane than just the purchase price and I realize that it may not actually save me money, but it will be my plane and I’ll be able to fly it when I want to. And in the worst case, if I get hit with a random $10,000 expense a month or two into owning the plane, I just won’t fly until I can fix it. I’m not using the mortgage money for this, and it is a hobby, so it’s not the end of the world if the plane is out of commission for a month or two. I know there is risk in everything, but well-maintained planes shouldn’t cost me 100% of the purchase price every year.

What I want is something like a Cherokee 140 (possibly a 172 at the right price), not a 150/152, so that it’s suitable for short/medium trips with a friend or two. I’d like the plane to be IFR so that I can get that rating in my plane. In fact there is a listing in the Classified forum of this site that looks good, even though it’s less than 500 hours from overhaul. I doubt I’d hit that TBO in less than two years, so it’s something I can plan for.

I live in Atlanta, and will be flying out of LZU for my lessons. PDK is closer, but it’s in Class B, and I’d rather train somewhere less congested. I’d be interested in a club, but I don’t know of any at that airport, and again, I’d be renting rather than buying and fighting the schedule. I haven’t found anything local, and I looked on controller.com and aso.com. Is there a better resource for finding used planes, especially local planes?

I do have some in-person help – a friend who purchased a plane years ago. But his experience is a sample size of one, so I thought it would be good to see what other owners had to say so that I could ask the right questions.

 

[docmirror]

OK, back in the bad old 70s I did almost exactly as you've described. I wanted to get my fixed wing, and I didn't like the idea of renting. So, out came the Trade-a-plane(what did we do to live before the internet?). And after a few trips I found the plane I wanted two states away. We wrote a bill of sale, the protected everyone, I got the FAA background on the plane to make sure it was the owner's plane to sell, and I found a CFI who would go with me to pick it up.

To answer your questions:
What’s a typical delivery charge if I can’t negotiate pick-up/delivery with the seller? Everything in the delivery business is negotiable as well. Some low time pilots will deliver for gas, and a comm ticket with a few meals thrown in. Others will charge up to $200/day, plus meals, hotel, comm ticket out. I would say a competent pilot, with a comm rating would be about $100/day plus a modest expense schedule.

Just an hourly rate to the pilot plus return travel expenses? See above.

What is a decent hourly rate for that? If the pilot only wants hourly for the trip, then it depends on where the plane is. Most will do fixed, but if you want to pay by the hour like a CFI, that's completely negotiable as well. I would say $25-50/hour depending on skills needed.

Or is it much more involved than that? Here's what I would(and did) do. I didn't waste those cross country hours in MY new plane. I went with the CFI(make sure he's a CFI), we checked out the plane in person, and he gave 8.6 hours of lessons all the way from the start of engine, through stuffing it in my hanger back home. It was the best way of getting a real world feel for the plane, and know it's limitations, while expanding your own. The cost was a little higher than to just send the pilot, but the value was very high.

 

[rbridges]

I appreciate all of the fast responses and the warnings about cost of ownership. I have considered that as well, and my goal was to buy a plane that I’d be happy flying for a while after getting my license. I’m prepared to put more money into the plane than just the purchase price and I realize that it may not actually save me money, but it will be my plane and I’ll be able to fly it when I want to. And in the worst case, if I get hit with a random $10,000 expense a month or two into owning the plane, I just won’t fly until I can fix it. I’m not using the mortgage money for this, and it is a hobby, so it’s not the end of the world if the plane is out of commission for a month or two. I know there is risk in everything, but well-maintained planes shouldn’t cost me 100% of the purchase price every year.

What I want is something like a Cherokee 140 (possibly a 172 at the right price), not a 150/152, so that it’s suitable for short/medium trips with a friend or two. I’d like the plane to be IFR so that I can get that rating in my plane. In fact there is a listing in the Classified forum of this site that looks good, even though it’s less than 500 hours from overhaul. I doubt I’d hit that TBO in less than two years, so it’s something I can plan for.

I live in Atlanta, and will be flying out of LZU for my lessons. PDK is closer, but it’s in Class B, and I’d rather train somewhere less congested. I’d be interested in a club, but I don’t know of any at that airport, and again, I’d be renting rather than buying and fighting the schedule. I haven’t found anything local, and I looked on controller.com and aso.com. Is there a better resource for finding used planes, especially local planes?

I do have some in-person help – a friend who purchased a plane years ago. But his experience is a sample size of one, so I thought it would be good to see what other owners had to say so that I could ask the right questions.

try barnstormers, too. It sounds like you may have a good attitude towards the purchase, but one last caveat. I flew a 172 and then a 180 for a while. After a year or so, I really wanted something faster. I fly a mooney now. That was the first plane I actually purchased. I'm glad I got to fly a few different planes earlier.

BTW, I'm just a little south of you in Perry, GA (KPXE). You're in a great area for aviation. PDK is a very busy airport and a great place to get some tower experience.

 

[John221us]

I appreciate all of the fast responses and the warnings about cost of ownership. I have considered that as well, and my goal was to buy a plane that I’d be happy flying for a while after getting my license. I’m prepared to put more money into the plane than just the purchase price and I realize that it may not actually save me money, but it will be my plane and I’ll be able to fly it when I want to. And in the worst case, if I get hit with a random $10,000 expense a month or two into owning the plane, I just won’t fly until I can fix it. I’m not using the mortgage money for this, and it is a hobby, so it’s not the end of the world if the plane is out of commission for a month or two. I know there is risk in everything, but well-maintained planes shouldn’t cost me 100% of the purchase price every year.

What I want is something like a Cherokee 140 (possibly a 172 at the right price), not a 150/152, so that it’s suitable for short/medium trips with a friend or two. I’d like the plane to be IFR so that I can get that rating in my plane. In fact there is a listing in the Classified forum of this site that looks good, even though it’s less than 500 hours from overhaul. I doubt I’d hit that TBO in less than two years, so it’s something I can plan for.

I live in Atlanta, and will be flying out of LZU for my lessons. PDK is closer, but it’s in Class B, and I’d rather train somewhere less congested. I’d be interested in a club, but I don’t know of any at that airport, and again, I’d be renting rather than buying and fighting the schedule. I haven’t found anything local, and I looked on controller.com and aso.com. Is there a better resource for finding used planes, especially local planes?

I do have some in-person help – a friend who purchased a plane years ago. But his experience is a sample size of one, so I thought it would be good to see what other owners had to say so that I could ask the right questions.

The Cherokee 140 is probably the best bargain out there and has a great useful load. The back seat is pretty uncomfortable for adults, though. For two people and a fair amount of luggage, it is great. You can stuff a third person back there on a $100 hamburger run, but you probably won't even be able to carry full fuel with three people (and they won't be particularly large people). Mine has a useful load of 860 lbs and carries 50 gallons, which uses up about 300 lbs of that.

 

[steingar]

The Cherokee 140 is probably the best bargain out there and has a great useful load. The back seat is pretty uncomfortable for adults, though. For two people and a fair amount of luggage, it is great. You can stuff a third person back there on a $100 hamburger run, but you probably won't even be able to carry full fuel with three people (and they won't be particularly large people). Mine has a useful load of 860 lbs and carries 50 gallons, which uses up about 300 lbs of that.

All true. The one good thing about the Cherokee is I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I really needed those back seats, though.

 

[docmirror]

Another vote for the Cher 140. I have very little time in them, but I wrote a treatise on the value proposition here recently. Either buy a falling apart, craptastic plane, at bargain basement price, and enrichen an A&P to get it up to your standards, or buy a top of the line plane at top prices, and fly the legs off it.

 

[dukeblue219]

I live in Atlanta, and will be flying out of LZU for my lessons. PDK is closer, but it’s in Class B, and I’d rather train somewhere less congested.

Have you looked into hangar or tie-down availability? I suspect LZU is far enough out that you can at least get a tie-down, but there may be a waiting list for hangars. There definitely was a shortage at all the close-in airports when I was living the ATL area a few years ago.

 

[John221us]

All true. The one good thing about the Cherokee is I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I really needed those back seats, though.

I probably put someone back there about four or five times a year. I just make it work (less fuel, etc.)

 

[steingar]

I probably put someone back there about four or five times a year. I just make it work (less fuel, etc.)

I've had big people back there, it really isn't that hard. But yeah, you do have to watch the fuel pretty carefully. Then again, among the GA fleet there are few aircraft in which you can fill both the seats and the tanks. Skylane is the only one that quickly comes to mind.

 

[QuiQuog]

He also did a half-assed job and, among other things, missed that the airplane had prior hurricane damage (it was in the log) which I think came back to haunt my insurance company to the tune of $8k.

How does previous damage affect the insurance? I'm looking at a plane that had some firewall forward damage and was wondering what effect it would have on the value of the plane, given that it was repaired. Do I also need to wonder about insurance?

 

[alfadog]

How does previous damage affect the insurance? I'm looking at a plane that had some firewall forward damage and was wondering what effect it would have on the value of the plane, given that it was repaired. Do I also need to wonder about insurance?

I do not know the answer to your question but as regards my situation: The plane broke shortly after purchase. I attributed it to a hard landing and maybe that was it but I suspect being bashed around by a hurricane just a few years earlier (and flown little since) may have played a part also.

 

[Henning]

Buy your last plane first and train in it from day one.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

10 years ago when I was in your boat, I noticed all these guys spending $1000 or $2000 each time they went cross country to see a plane or each time they paid a mechanic locally to inspect a plane. It also was not uncommon for these guys to do this with at least two or three planes having $4500 in just shopping costs.... it was not uncommon to spend a fair share of your aviation budget just on this sort of stuff.

So I told my self If I want a plentiful basic trainer.... 150/152 or 172 or Cherokee they are so plentiful that I need not fly to Ohio or California not Florida find one, I tend to trust Midwest people a little more but not much anyway..... So on that premise I opened myself up to buying any brand Cessna/Beech/Piper plane that would carry my weight +300 lbs and another up to 300 lbs passenger or instructor. I put a big emphasis on 2+2 seater as I could see bringing a 3rd person or couple of kids later down the road.

So then I looked at every Cherokee, 172, Beech Sport, Musketeer in the area. On weekends I would have little weekend jaunts for fun and search to airports up to 100-200 miles away that I could drive. But for me this wasn't a cost but part of my learning and enjoyment as well as part of the purchase...as I put the girlfriend in a nice holiday inn with pool and we made it a nice weekend and she rewarded me commensurately. I looked at all planes on all airports I had access too and started to develop a feel or like of a plane and what my personal range of acceptability is above and beyond Airworthy of some IA i did not know.

The first 20-30 planes was purely learning on my part, read a book how to buy and airplane, talked to hundreds of guys on POA like you are now. I would call just about everyone in TAP and talk to them about their plane and compare it to other planes and have them explain the differences and values and liabilities. This process took about 1-2 months. Realizing I was only going to risk about $20k I didn't want to suffer from paralysis of analysis but at the same time didn't want to end up with a hog. It turned out of all the airports in the area, the one I first preferred to hangar my plane had a Cherokee come up for sale and the owner was having it Annual-ed on the field. The Mechanic told me about it and he also gave me a full detailed analysis of the plane and what it could ost to own. So I bought it that day. At that time the Vref was $26900 and I offered about 40% off of $16k and he countered with $20k and that was it. He had some ad's like a Piper service and parts manuals he had purchased and a hand held GPS. But with fresh annual I figured I already saved about $1000 or maybe $1400 as I would h ave spent $400 for prebuy and then likely had to do an annual soon anyway for another $1000.

There was one $12k Cherokee in NE and the broker was in Minn and I tried to look at it but the broker was very cagy unless I gave him $3500. I searched the local BBB of his home town and he had not returned a deposit so I ruled him out and that was that....So I would say stick close to home for a hole bunch of reasons. Not the least of which if you buy from some SOB who really knowingly screws you it would be nice to put poop burning trash bags on his front door occasionally or other nasty tricks until you felt karma has been achieved or if it turned into a legal matter of him hiding a defect that was material you could resolve it in local court.

I’m about to start my Private Pilot lessons. I noticed that renting a 172 from the flight school will end up costing me around $5000-$6000, depending on how long I take to complete. I’m in a good position financially, so I thought buying a plane would be better than essentially “wasting” $5000+, plus I’d still have a plane to fly when I got my license. I’ve noticed several planes in the $25,000 range that I can just pay cash for, so I don’t think finding an inexpensive trainer will be an issue. (I’ve read enough about what to look for when buying a plane, and I have several friends that are pilots, so I’m not very concerned about buying something that’s wrong for me.)

My question is, what do I do once I’ve picked out the plane I want to buy, assuming it’s not local? I’m sure that I would need to hire someone to check out the plane’s condition and logs. Is there a good way to find someone to do that? Also, what is the standard procedure on payment if it’s an individual seller and not a broker? A deposit until I can get to the plane to give the seller a check? Is there a standard contract for buying a plane out-of-state? I know I’d need to negotiate most things directly with the seller, I just wanted to know if there’s a usual way to handle these types of transactions.

What’s a typical delivery charge if I can’t negotiate pick-up/delivery with the seller? Just an hourly rate to the pilot plus return travel expenses? What is a decent hourly rate for that? Or is it much more involved than that?

I would buy locally and treat it like a car purchase. I wouldn't give much of a deposit as these days there are not hundred of buyers waiting to steal the plane out from under you unless it is a steal and there are not many of those even for those of us who look constantly.



Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

I have never owned before but it sounds like it would be nice and give you more flexibility to take lessons because of aircraft availability.

From a CFI point of view however, make sure wherever you go for instruction will allow you to use your own plane. Secondly, make sure your CFI is covered by either his or your insurance. I would not think it would ever be a problem but making sure is just protection for your plane.

David

I wouldn't give two thoughts about a CFI as you can run a craigslist ad and get about 20 applications. CFI is going to be your contract employee. Easy to find.

I had no insurance and refused to buy insurance and none of the CFI's that wanted to work for me bitched about it. If you own your own plane it does not make sense to go pay $30-50 per hour to hire a school to train you. Flight training is very standardized just follow the course guides for the PPL...I thin I paid $8 per hour for my CFI and gave him trade out to fly the plane so I ended up not paying him cash anyway.

 

[Badger]

OP: does your user name mean you have won a WSOP bracelet?

 

[weilke]

What is your anticipated usage after you get the certificate ?

Rather than purchasing an aircraft pretty well limited to training (like a 140 or 172), consider to buy the plane that is one step further down the line. An IFR and autopilot equipped 182 will still allow you to do your primary training, but it will be quite useful after that. As it is fixed gear, you should be able to get insurance for reasonable money even as a student pilot. The budget for this kind of plane will probably exceed your current 'play-money', but even if you have to borrow a couple of $$, if it allows you to avoid a buy-sell cycle, you are going to come out ahead on a 2-3 year timeframe.

 

[braceletwinner]

OP: does your user name mean you have won a WSOP bracelet?

No, I won a bracelet in a smaller tournament about ten years ago. At the time I had plans to win a WSOP bracelet (I'm not good enough now), so I started using that as my user-name.

Thanks again to everyone who responded. I am now seriously considering just getting my PPL and then start looking for a deal on a Piper 180 or similar. I really hate having any sort of debt (paid cash for everything for 11 years now), but it may be worth taking out a loan to get a plane that will last me longer than a year or two.

 

[steingar]

No, I won a bracelet in a smaller tournament about ten years ago. At the time I had plans to win a WSOP bracelet (I'm not good enough now), so I started using that as my user-name.

Thanks again to everyone who responded. I am now seriously considering just getting my PPL and then start looking for a deal on a Piper 180 or similar. I really hate having any sort of debt (paid cash for everything for 11 years now), but it may be worth taking out a loan to get a plane that will last me longer than a year or two.

Never go into debt for a toy. I honestly think the waiting idea is a good one. Hard to know what your mission is until you start flying. Henning is right though, get your last airplane first.