Buy or rent airplane debate redux II

B

Blueangel

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
813
Location
San Diego
Display Name
Display name:
Scott
Hi folks,

So right now I am renting since I just moved to San Diego and there are tons of rentals for good price. BUT, since I plan to get my instrument and commercial ratings this year was wondering if it would be more cost effective to buy a complex trainer like a Cessna 172RG or Piper Arrow and lease back to a club? I am sorry if this question has been asked a million times before or if I might have asked a similar query earlier but moving was stressful and I might have lost track of things. I am also looking at buying a flight sim and lease it back to local club or FBO. I am just trying to structure it out to make the cost pencil out as low cost as possible. Right now I have 250 hours and my PP, complex and high endorsement ratings so ready to move on to instrument and commercial.

Long term I really want to get my multi-engine rating and CFI ratings to teach and charter fly part time for fun and extra spending money. I have no desire to be a full time airline pilot so the ATP would be overkill.
 
Not sure how you will work out with the sim. I have purchased airplanes for the ratings,worked out well. Had a 172 ,then an arrow.after comm and IFR purchased a twin for multi and ATP. Never did a lease back. Think you do better flying the same airplane all the time ,for your ratings.
 
price it out both ways... see which costs you like better.
 
If you do a lease back, do it for business reasons, work the numbers, and see if it could be profitable. Is it a good investment even if you didn't fly? Reality is, with a leaseback, you're just another renter, renting your own airplane. It might be the worst of both worlds, particularily if you're competing against other "good price" rentals.
 
Thanks here is what I am thinking:

1) Get a Piper Arrow or Cessna 172RG for IR and commercial
2) Lease it back after training
3) Buy a cheap twin for MEI and maybe ATP
4) Lease the twin back and buy something else.
 
Don't blow you're money on complex, no one cares that much about complex time.

I bought a plane for my CPL, worked out GREAT, I kept the plane, but if I would have sold her right after my CPL I'd have been all in under 20k for my CPL.
 
Brad Z said:
If you do a lease back, do it for business reasons, work the numbers, and see if it could be profitable. Is it a good investment even if you didn't fly? Reality is, with a leaseback, you're just another renter, renting your own airplane. It might be the worst of both worlds, particularily if you're competing against other "good price" rentals.
Click to expand...

You're just another renter, but with some possible tax benefits. For example, getting a rating or flying another plane (competitive research) could be considered a business expense.

Disclaimer: I'm not a tax attorney and this is not legal advice.

BTW, I've heard 172RG's and PA28R's get pounded pretty hard by CPL trainees. I'm sure others will chime in to corroborate or refute this.
 
In that case, I may just rent to complete my ratings and later on buy something fun like a Baron that can be used for a side air charter business.
 
Blueangel said:
In that case, I may just rent to complete my ratings and later on buy something fun like a Baron that can be used for a side air charter business.
Click to expand...

Side charter biz :rofl:
 
Owning is unlikely to be cheaper, but it will be a hell of a lot more convenient.

If you want to fly it, leaseback is *NOT* the answer. If you want to be in the leaseback business, you have to treat it like a business, which means you come AFTER your potential customers, not before. A plane that the owner books out in big blocks isn't going to get rented. You then will be paying higher maintenance and higher insurance and likely a fee to the club/fbo you're renting it through for no economic advantage.

I've been on both sides of the leaseback biz (both as a flying club leasing planes and as an airplane owner leasing planes to a club).
 
Blueangel said:
Hi folks,

So right now I am renting since I just moved to San Diego and there are tons of rentals for good price. BUT, since I plan to get my instrument and commercial ratings this year was wondering if it would be more cost effective to buy a complex trainer like a Cessna 172RG or Piper Arrow and lease back to a club? I am sorry if this question has been asked a million times before or if I might have asked a similar query earlier but moving was stressful and I might have lost track of things. I am also looking at buying a flight sim and lease it back to local club or FBO. I am just trying to structure it out to make the cost pencil out as low cost as possible. Right now I have 250 hours and my PP, complex and high endorsement ratings so ready to move on to instrument and commercial.

Long term I really want to get my multi-engine rating and CFI ratings to teach and charter fly part time for fun and extra spending money. I have no desire to be a full time airline pilot so the ATP would be overkill.
Click to expand...
If you are in San Diego and able to join/utlize Plus One Flyers, there is really no reason to own an airplane unless you just absolutely don't want to share a plane with others or you want something very specific that is not available in the club's fleet (like a warbird).

It is like buying a single screw driver that would be yours and yours alone when you could join a club and have access to a complete tool box.

San Diego is a very special and unique place for general aviation.

As far as buying your own and leasing it back to the club - a complex trainer there will get a lot of use which means you will be dealing with a lot more maintenance due to that use while having to worry about whether or not you can schedule your own airplane due to the demand.

In short, I think you will do better just to rent within the club and not be an owner/renter.
 
Last edited:
There are a lot of advantages to owning, but it rarely works out cheaper in the long run unless you fly a huge amount.
 
Blueangel said:
Hi folks,

So right now I am renting since I just moved to San Diego and there are tons of rentals for good price. BUT, since I plan to get my instrument and commercial ratings this year was wondering if it would be more cost effective to buy a complex trainer like a Cessna 172RG or Piper Arrow and lease back to a club? I am sorry if this question has been asked a million times before or if I might have asked a similar query earlier but moving was stressful and I might have lost track of things. I am also looking at buying a flight sim and lease it back to local club or FBO. I am just trying to structure it out to make the cost pencil out as low cost as possible. Right now I have 250 hours and my PP, complex and high endorsement ratings so ready to move on to instrument and commercial.

Long term I really want to get my multi-engine rating and CFI ratings to teach and charter fly part time for fun and extra spending money. I have no desire to be a full time airline pilot so the ATP would be overkill.
Click to expand...

If you plan to fly a lot, then it's better to buy, at least at long as your maintenance costs stay relatively low. So when you do buy, it's essentially to get a good pre-buy inspection. When you step up to multi- same thing.

Around where I live, the cost of a rental plane with just "decent" avionics is 130-150 an hour sans CFI. My cost per hour in fuel and oil run about $50/hour. If I break my monthly Payments / insurance costs 10 hours a month, that would add $32/hour + I figure $15/hour for basic maintenance. Total $97/hour but I'll run up to $100. That's 30-50/hour less than the rental plane. The numbers get progressively better the more you fly.

Buy an RG to get your instrument and commercial ratings. Get the annual rolled into the pre-buy, knock out the training during the year, then find the plane you want to keep. If you want, you can add the CFI and CFII using the RG as well. Once you're there, find the plane you want to keep.
 
SbestCFII said:
If you plan to fly a lot, then it's better to buy, at least at long as your maintenance costs stay relatively low. So when you do buy, it's essentially to get a good pre-buy inspection. When you step up to multi- same thing.

Around where I live, the cost of a rental plane with just "decent" avionics is 130-150 an hour sans CFI. My cost per hour in fuel and oil run about $50/hour. If I break my monthly Payments / insurance costs 10 hours a month, that would add $32/hour + I figure $15/hour for basic maintenance. Total $97/hour but I'll run up to $100. That's 30-50/hour less than the rental plane. The numbers get progressively better the more you fly.

Buy an RG to get your instrument and commercial ratings. Get the annual rolled into the pre-buy, knock out the training during the year, then find the plane you want to keep. If you want, you can add the CFI and CFII using the RG as well. Once you're there, find the plane you want to keep.
Click to expand...
Yes, but you are in North Carolina. OP is in San Diego. The club there is cheaper to rent from than what you'll likely find here on the east coast.
 
Agree and I'll rent since Plus One flyers is close to where I'll be living in San Diego. They have some awesome instructors and wide choice of aircraft at decent rates. I usually fly between 40-60 hours a year recreationally.

Scott
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top