Buy my own plane?

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cyrus

Filing Flight Plan
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Cyrus
Hello all!
I am going to be getting my Instrument and Commercial from a university flight program which charges about $200 an hour to rent a fairly new 172. With that in mind, I was wondering if owning my own plane would be more efficient in the long run. I've found some 152s online that are IFR certified that are around $25,000, and compared to the $35,000 I would spend on the commercial license alone at the University, it seems like a steal. I would have friends of mine instruct me, so instructor costs would not be an issue. I would either be majoring in Professional Aviation or Aviation Management, the latter requiring nothing I haven't already achieved flying wise, but allowing me to use the FRASCA sim we have and the fleet of complex 172s and the Duchess to earn a multi engine cert. If I were to major in Professional Aviation, I would be required to earn through a CFI using the University's planes and I have no interest in doing that. Any input on this issue would be welcome!
 
Buying and selling airplanes is never a cost win situation unless you fly them a lot. And I mean well after training. Also bear in mind that you don't want to buy a retract (complex) airplane for your primary training, but you will need one for your commercial.

The only time it makes sense is if you live in a place where you can't rent an airplane for training.
 
Well I'd be getting my Commercial and Instrument in it and after I'm done with the training I'd probably resell it. I'd be able to use the university's complex 172s for that part of training. Would it be unadvisable to do part of your commercial in a complex and part in a 152? Or does all of the training for commercial require a complex?
 
Bottom line is that as a rule of thumb, if you fly less than 150 hours per year (I hope you can get your PPL and some of the commercial well under that) you are economically better off renting.
 
Your plan will work. but be sure you don't buy a maintenance night mare.
 
cyrus said:
Well I'd be getting my Commercial and Instrument in it and after I'm done with the training I'd probably resell it. I'd be able to use the university's complex 172s for that part of training. Would it be unadvisable to do part of your commercial in a complex and part in a 152? Or does all of the training for commercial require a complex?
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Not all the training, but if you're going to fly 200 hours in that 152, you're going to spend a lot of money on fuel, insurance, tiedown/hangar, maintenance, etc, as well as 10-20 hours of time in a complex airplane you'll have to rent, and somewhere around the typical 50 hours of instructor time logged for instrument and commercial training. In addition, when you go to sell it, you may or may not find anyone interested in buying it, and you may or may not get something close to what you have invested in it from the buyer. There's also the issue of the costs of buying and selling a plane, including prepurchase inspection, travel costs, advertising, etc. Finally, there's the question of how a prospective employer will view training done on your own with some instructor they've never heard of versus an accredited university flight training program. Put it all together, and I'd recommend against the idea.
 
cyrus said:
Well I'd be getting my Commercial and Instrument in it and after I'm done with the training I'd probably resell it. I'd be able to use the university's complex 172s for that part of training. Would it be unadvisable to do part of your commercial in a complex and part in a 152? Or does all of the training for commercial require a complex?
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Just go ahead and get a twin. You'll be able to sell 2 seats of loggable while you take one.
 
I'd check with the University that they will allow it, just saying. They're all about money these days.
 
P.S. You won't be doing all of your Commercial in a non-Complex aircraft. And the Uni may not want you to play the split aircraft game for the checkride or their curriculum.

Not trying to be a killjoy. I like the way you think. Just make sure the Uni is in agreement that you can utilize your own aircraft.

Also if they're doing "dispatch" type stuff where they have their "dispatchers" release you for flights and all their aircraft are on a ramp, where you going to keep yours?

Additionally you may find their instructors don't like your insurance setup and/or will be reluctant to fly in your aircraft because it's not involved in the Uni's maintenance program, etc.
 
Ron Levy said:
You forgot to add the sarcasm smiley, Henning.
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Not completely sarcasm though, that's how All ATPs and those guys make money selling 3 seats of time at a time. Your basic Seminole, Dutchess or Travelair is going to operate for <$300hr, you sell the front seats at $150hr each and instruct the guy in the right seat from the back logging the time. If you're mechanical enough to handle most of your own squawks and are at a school with a major aviation program around, it'll suffice for a school job as well. I could make money with my Travelair with just one guy paying for it.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Buying and selling airplanes is never a cost win situation unless you fly them a lot. And I mean well after training. Also bear in mind that you don't want to buy a retract (complex) airplane for your primary training, but you will need one for your commercial.

The only time it makes sense is if you live in a place where you can't rent an airplane for training.
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The only good thing about a 150/2 is that they are so cheap that you don't loose much on them.

However I don't think that a univercity will agree to use someone else's plane for the IFR, and comercial in a FG? Forget about it.

I'm assuming this univercity is a part 141 school (if not choose a new one:wink2: ) to do instruction in your plane under 141 you will have to put your plane on the ticket. Think they'll buy that? Want to have to get the plane up to a 141 FAA conformity check?
 
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Skylane81E said:
The only good thing about a 150/2 is that they are so cheap that you don't loose much on them.

However I don't think that a univercity will agree to use someone else's plane for the IFR, and comercial in a FG? Forget about it.

I'm assuming this univercity is a part 141 school (if not choose a new one:wink2: ) to do instruction in your plain under 141 you will have to put your plane on the ticket. Think they'll buy that? Want to have to get the plane up to a 141 FAA conformity check?
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Exactly, that's why I say a cheap twin, that's where the demand will lie with people needing to build multi time. Multi time in University programs is typically outrageously expensive and you aren't really competing with their bread and butter business.
 
Henning said:
Exactly, that's why I say a cheap twin, that's where the demand will lie with people needing to build multi time. Multi time in University programs is typically outrageously expensive and you aren't really competing with their bread and butter business.
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If you can capture the market and don't get blackballed for "stealing" time from the school this can work with the right plane.
 
Skylane81E said:
If you can capture the market and don't get blackballed for "stealing" time from the school this can work with the right plane.
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It's working great for a kid I discussed this with him and Dad a few years back. The trick is getting a good airplane and keeping up on the little things.
 
cyrus said:
Hello all!
I am going to be getting my Instrument and Commercial from a university flight program which charges about $200 an hour to rent a fairly new 172. With that in mind, I was wondering if owning my own plane would be more efficient in the long run. I've found some 152s online that are IFR certified that are around $25,000, and compared to the $35,000 I would spend on the commercial license alone at the University, it seems like a steal. I would have friends of mine instruct me, so instructor costs would not be an issue. I would either be majoring in Professional Aviation or Aviation Management, the latter requiring nothing I haven't already achieved flying wise, but allowing me to use the FRASCA sim we have and the fleet of complex 172s and the Duchess to earn a multi engine cert. If I were to major in Professional Aviation, I would be required to earn through a CFI using the University's planes and I have no interest in doing that. Any input on this issue would be welcome!
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Sounds like you have a lot going on. I would just rent and be done with it. Owning and managing an aircraft takes a lot of time and money. More than anyone ever thinks it will.
 
denverpilot said:
Aww come on. They also spin really well. ;)
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.??? Not really well, you have to hold spin inputs into it or it recovers by itself. I kinda though it made a poor spin trainer for that reason, there's no question as to recovering. A 152 Aerobat will even recover itself from an inverted spin.
 
Show me any Certified aircraft that you can fly cheaper than a C-150.

They were designed to be a trainer or a single person commuter and they do that better than any aircraft you can mention.
 
I though maybe I could get the IR through the University program, which I should get for free since my position entitled me to tuition free instruction. Doesn't quite work that way for the flight program, and it really wasn't going to work any cheaper than using my aircraft and flying with an instructor. I'll take their IFR wx classes if the time should ever come.
 
Tom-D said:
Show me any Certified aircraft that you can fly cheaper than a C-150.

They were designed to be a trainer or a single person commuter and they do that better than any aircraft you can mention.
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You can't really, however they really are only worth owning if you have one of the two jobs you listed for it. As a trainer it's high value and as a short commuter it's high value. Once you leave those rolls though, the plane has much lower value. If you want a plane to finish up your PP & IR then sell and move onto a plane with more capability, then a 150 while still being the best choice of the genre is still a poor choice in the overall. For those people I still say buying your last plane first will be the cheapest in the long run.
 
As much as I love airplanes, I can't recommend owning one except for extreme circumstances. They can rapidly suck up large amounts of your time to maintain with things you don't really think about at first (they need to be washed periodically, etc). If you fly a *lot*, it can make economic sense, but you're already committed to a lot of time at that point. If you can't find one to fly, that's another reason to buy (some areas of the country, there just are not *any* of certain types around for rent). I can't recommend it for any student. Your time is best spent flying and studying. Also, you're going to be hopping from a single into a twin pretty quick and everything I said above goes triple for a twin... If you think buying a twin makes *logical* sense, then you've got a math error somewhere that you just haven't found yet. :)
 
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