Busting Canadian airspace

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by David Groat, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. David Groat

    David Groat Filing Flight Plan

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    A flight I often like to do with new passengers is the 'Detroit Loop'. A large circle around Detroit Metro's airspace that takes me right over downtown. I've done it dozens of times, but while flying down the Detroit river I will often 'bust' Canadian airspace by a couple of hundred feet or so. Metro's airspace crowds right up against the Canadian border allowing an extremely narrow corridor at what I would consider a safe altitude.

    Is there a possibility that this activity will attract any unwanted attention? I'm usually on Flight Following with Metro and I'm never flying over Canadian land space (only the river), so I can't see this as being an issue. But an FAA bureaucrat with nothing better to do may think differently.
     
  2. DGlaeser

    DGlaeser Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I've done the same thing lots of times. If you are on flight following with a discreet transponder code, you are 'legal' to cross the border and come back :) I fly across Canada down to Ohio all the time using FF. If you were going to attract attention, you would know very quickly. It isn't the FAA you have to worry about, it is CBP. They monitor the border very closely (air, land and sea).
     
  3. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Detroit TRACON does not care. But, as was 'splained to me by Detroit TRACON, they ain't the only ones watching the radar.
    On the other other hand, I see peeps sliding over the line getting into the pattern at ONZ fairly often. (People other than me, that is.)
    And, if you avoid flight following, it makes it harder for them to figure out who to punish.
    But, having said that, 'cept for keeping it under 2500 over the north half of Grosse Ile, it doesn't strike me as that tight.
     
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  4. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    I fly this at least once a month...I've never found it "tight"...not to mention, there are plenty of landmarks, roads, islands, etc, to keep you on the correct side of the river.
     
  5. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Don't you also need to be on a flight plan?
     
  6. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    For a planned over-flight, yes. If you are directed by ATC, no.
     
  7. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

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    What are the Canadians going to do, send a Sopwith Pup up to shoot you down?
    OK that's going to get my in trouble with my wife's side of the family.
    SOOOOOO worth it.
     
  8. Gerhardt

    Gerhardt En-Route

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    Nah, More likely. "Come back soon, eh?"
     
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  9. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you’re talking and squawking I really wouldn’t worry about it.

    In the nice weather I fly my seaplane low over the water where the border cuts between, often do a few touch and goes, I make very sure not to cross as I’m not talking or squawking and with my flight pattern I’d wager they’d flag me, maybe send a boat out or something to take a peek, if they haven’t already lol

    Also keep in mind even if you’re doing everything 100% right, if you attract the attention of CBP or anger the crown, they still can and will intercept and mess with you, the border to 100 miles inland is a constitution free zone as far as things like the 4th amendment go, ...including cavity search :cheerswine: .
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exceptionhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  10. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Cleared for Takeoff

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    22E15FA1-4FBC-443E-BE7C-A0FE12248179.gif The are going to syrup board ya.
     
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  11. lancie00

    lancie00 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I've overflown Canadian airspace a lot. International Falls MN is right on the border and if you're landing on 31, you're going to be over the river and probably in their airspace. Squawking 1200 I've never had a problem.
     
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  12. DutchRoller

    DutchRoller Ejection Handle Pulled

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    No worries. They’ll probably apologize to you for putting their border so close to your flight path.
     
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  13. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    A Canadian wife?? Does that mean you don't have to say you're sorry? Eh.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  14. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    Hopefully you aren’t on basicmed, I haven’t gotten a straight answer on this yet, but Canada doesn’t recognize basicmed, so if u bust their airspace , technically you aren’t even a legal pilot in that airspace.
     
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  15. Sinistar

    Sinistar Pattern Altitude

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    Death Penalty man...watch that border :)

    Tell them you are flying under MedXPress, everyone will be so confused they'll just make you top off with 100LL at like $15/liter and send you home...that's $15 Canadian :D
     
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  16. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    At that price they better fuel me mid air
     
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  17. Eric Stoltz

    Eric Stoltz Line Up and Wait

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    Back in the good old days, we flew many flights on the United States of texas boarder with Mexico. Many approaches began in Mexico's airspace and not once did anyone care. Always talking to 'ewston center. Sometimes in radar, sometimes sqk 1200.

    Might be tough to do approaches after the building of the big beautiful wall. Maybe if the slots are airplane width....
     
  18. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Cleared for Takeoff

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    Could always quarter roll and knife edge through it. Can have too many gaps.
     
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  19. DutchRoller

    DutchRoller Ejection Handle Pulled

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    But did you ever fly a Caravan across the border?
     
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  20. Ventucky Red

    Ventucky Red Line Up and Wait

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    You bust Kanuckistan airspace... easy, just have a few 6 packs of Labatt's Blue and all will be right in the world... :p

    Or, you may here.... 'cessna ehhh your a little to north are ya.. should you you turn around ehhh"
     
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  21. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

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    What is actually required to cross CA airspace? Not landing, just heading through on way to KOSH. VFR flight plan, squawk and talk?
     
  22. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    Yep, that's it. I do it often flying to Niagara from Michigan, or to Cleveland (but only July / August to Cleveland over lake Erie...brrrrr).

    I write "Canada over flight" in remarks. I ask for flight following adding the words "Canada over flight". Although, I'll probably stop saying that when asking for flight following, as ATC always asks for a repeat.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  23. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  24. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

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  25. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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  26. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    since the tld for Canada is .ca I think it qualifies.
     
  27. DutchRoller

    DutchRoller Ejection Handle Pulled

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  28. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    You're not a real pilot until you've overflown the length of Superior in a piston single in winter? :rolleyes:
     
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  29. DutchRoller

    DutchRoller Ejection Handle Pulled

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    At low altitude.
     
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  30. ircphoenix

    ircphoenix En-Route

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    Inverted.
     
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  31. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

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    with the doors open?
     
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  32. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The big question becomes, if you do bust Canadian air space, how the heck is someone going to fix it?
     
  33. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    It's self healing. Once the Canadian air starts thawing out in the spring it all melts together.