Busted Noise Abatement Curfew

Status
Not open for further replies.
U

Unregistered

Guest
I just started flying out of a new airport and unintentionally busted their weekend noise abatement curfew. I was under the impression that the curfew was from 10pm to 7am for all days but it actually extends until 8am on weekends. I took off around 7:30 on Saturday. I didn't hear anything from anybody on the ground when I got back and the tower cleared me for takeoff. I only realized I had busted the curfew after landing and reading through the A/FD. It was an honest mistake and I'm feeling terrible about it. What do you suggest I do?
 
Not worry about, you could file an ASRS and ask why you could get a clearance at 7:30 from tower with an 8:00 abatement limitation.
 
Nothing. Assuming it isn't a felony:rolleyes:, and if it is they will find you.
 
Don't feel terrible about it. If the city didn't want planes flying, they shouldn't have an airport.
 
Unregistered said:
But it is a part of the city's municipal code, not just a recommended curfew but "prohibited".
Click to expand...

Can the city rules override Federal law?

If this is a towered field, the burden is on the tower - they should not have allowed you to depart, or at least informed you of the curfew. On the other hand, since it's not an FAA reg, they really aren't under any requirement to do so, other than courtesy.

File the ASRS if you like but I'll bet the $2.76 in my wallet no one will say anything - except the residents who have sound meters set up on their roofs and spend all their time harassing the airport.

On the other hand, it shows your concern that you try to be a good neighbor and pilot.

For those of you interested, Boeing has a website that lists curfews, among other things. It's commercial only, but still useful. Here's the US list:
http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/noise/listcountry.page#U

And here's the PDF of US airports
 

Attachments

  • curfews.pdf
    41.5 KB · Views: 248
Last edited:
How much noise are we talking about here? Cessna 172? Beech twin? Citation? F-16?
 
Is the noise abatement restriction listed in the A/FD ?
 
What airport? One of the fields I use has a noise abatement pbelow but it's just on turns below a certain altitude - no takeoff or landing limitations. I'd like to see the A/FD comments.
 
ASRS doesn't seem like it would achieve much here. This is a potential issue between you and the city. You could either sit back and see if anything happens, or you could be proactive and talk to them about it.

The latter could help your case if you have reason to believe they're going to try to find you on their own. Otherwise, you might just be bringing yourself under unnecessary scrutiny.

If it would give you peace of mind, then call 'em. I'd be stunned if anything serious was to come of it given the accidental nature of the infraction and the miniscule amount of noise involved.
 
I would not recommend going to the city, if someone called to complain, you would have been met and cited already. If nobody called to complain, no harm, no foul.
 
Henning said:
I would not recommend going to the city, if someone called to complain, you would have been met and cited already. If nobody called to complain, no harm, no foul.
Click to expand...
Agree. No point in making the do something about it when it otherwise would have been ignored.
 
You keep change in your wallet? :rofl::rofl:

murphey said:
Can the city rules override Federal law?

If this is a towered field, the burden is on the tower - they should not have allowed you to depart, or at least informed you of the curfew. On the other hand, since it's not an FAA reg, they really aren't under any requirement to do so, other than courtesy.

File the ASRS if you like but I'll bet the $2.76 in my wallet no one will say anything - except the residents who have sound meters set up on their roofs and spend all their time harassing the airport.

On the other hand, it shows your concern that you try to be a good neighbor and pilot.

For those of you interested, Boeing has a website that lists curfews, among other things. It's commercial only, but still useful. Here's the US list:
http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/noise/listcountry.page#U

And here's the PDF of US airports
Click to expand...
 
Kelvin said:
You keep change in your wallet? :rofl::rofl:
Click to expand...
Ok, so I counted wrong. I always keep 2-3 quarters in the wallet just in case the cell phone doesn't work, or I need something out of the candy machine.
 
Chances are that the airport has noise monitors & they will track the noise. If a violation is going to be issued, it may take some time. It's more a local issue than an FAA issue, though, meaning that it could take whatever form the city specifies in it's code (anything from a warning to a fine to a ban from the airport). Most likely, and not knowing the airport or local code, it would be a warning or a fine.

Some places are more aggressive than others. I've heard more stories from places in California like SMO or TOA that really would rather the airport go away.
 
OP post your N number and I'll look it up in the cities noise offender database.
 
murphey said:
Ok, so I counted wrong. I always keep 2-3 quarters in the wallet just in case the cell phone doesn't work, or I need something out of the candy machine.
Click to expand...

Wait. There are pay phones still?
 
Tower would normally clear you,figuring you know about the. Procedure. Don't be surprised if you get a bill in the mail with a fine. Tower just forwards the info. Good luck.
 
Your operation here was authorized by an FAA control tower. . . if the local municipality decides to send you a noise ticket, return it, plead not guilty on the grounds they lack jurisdiction to control your operation once approved by the federal government through the agency of the control tower. . . .

This will cost them so much money in lawyers, they'll likely dismiss the ticket with a proper mea culpa . . . or - just tell them it was not you. Make them prove that you were in the aircraft operating it. . . . have fun with it. As long as you don't say anything - they are rather powerless to fine the aircraft itself . .. how do they intend to collect?

The registered owner of the aircraft will get a citation - if they make it illegal to operate at certain times outside certain noise levels - then the crime is the operation - and the aircraft cannot operate itself. Thus, it needs a pilot. And under the 5th Amendment you are not required as an owner or pilot, to incriminate yourself, thus are not required to answer any questions.

Who do they fine? There is no proof you were operating the aircraft if you clam up and refuse to tell them or answer ANY questions under grounds you may incriminate yourself. The court cannot take the silence as proof of a material fact . . . . if you sustain this they'll get squat. .

Most people get in trouble by admitting operation - remember - this is NOT the FAA - they have limited knowledge with how things work aviation wise. . . a mea culpa is NOT called for here with the city - and make sure the correct AGENCY is citing you. If it was a noise violation and the city sends a ticket, is there a city ordnance? Or a noise ordnance from a separate noise agency = hmmm is this why we have lawyers?
 
Last edited:
comanchepilot said:
Your operation here was authorized by an FAA control tower. . . if the local municipality decides to send you a noise ticket, return it, plead not guilty on the grounds they lack jurisdiction to control your operation once approved by the federal government through the agency of the control tower. . . .
Click to expand...

I'm no lawyer but I like the way that sounds.
I definitely wouldn't go the proactive route, opening up a can of worms that may be a non issue. If they do decide to make an issue out of it, let them come to you.
 
redtail said:
I'm no lawyer but I like the way that sounds.
I definitely wouldn't go the proactive route, opening up a can of worms that may be a non issue. If they do decide to make an issue out of it, let them come to you.
Click to expand...

It's amazing how long it took me to learn that there's no point in calling attention to my screw-ups!
 
Palmpilot said:
It's amazing how long it took me to learn that there's no point in calling attention to my screw-ups!
Click to expand...

Yep, me too. We're all taught to be honest and to do the right thing. That's great but sometimes the right thing is to SHUT UP!

Found that out the hard way a few times:mad2::lol:
 
Okay, general consensus seems to be that I should keep my mouth shut and see if they come to me. It will be a bit embarrassing, however, if the FBO I'm renting from calls one day saying I have a noise violation for the second flight I took in one of their airplanes....

Thank you to all of those who commented.
 
Unregistered said:
Okay, general consensus seems to be that I should keep my mouth shut and see if they come to me. It will be a bit embarrassing, however, if the FBO I'm renting from calls one day saying I have a noise violation for the second flight I took in one of their airplanes....

Thank you to all of those who commented.
Click to expand...

You said light sport, any chance it was a Rotax motor? I'd bet that if someone heard it they wouldn't even to think to look up. Quiet engines.
 
Unregistered said:
But it is a part of the city's municipal code, not just a recommended curfew but "prohibited".
Click to expand...

A. It appears you didn't break any FARs with your noisy take off.
B. Muni code, they can come find you if they want, but keep your mouth shut. Just because a plane took off at 07:30, they have to prove it was you at the controls to be guilty. Ownership does not imply operation.
C. WGAF.

<edit. I see a real lawyer spoke up in #29. Better advice than I can give, go with that.>
 
Unregistered said:
Okay, general consensus seems to be that I should keep my mouth shut and see if they come to me. It will be a bit embarrassing, however, if the FBO I'm renting from calls one day saying I have a noise violation for the second flight I took in one of their airplanes....

Thank you to all of those who commented.
Click to expand...

I'd be embarrassed if I did something that compromised safety, such as, busting airspace, runway incursion or running a red light or stop sign. Otherwise, who cares.

I got a ticket for making a right turn on red in Suffolk Co. Long Island. Hey I thought right on red was allowed on the entire Island like it is in Nassau Co. (unlike the 5 boroughs of NYC).

Honest mistake on my part. Embarrassed, no. Maybe a little ****ed but not embarrassed
 
I would tell them to ...you know *^%^^&&^%$%$%#
 
redtail said:
I'd be embarrassed if I did something that compromised safety, such as, busting airspace, runway incursion or running a red light or stop sign. Otherwise, who cares.

I got a ticket for making a right turn on red in Suffolk Co. Long Island. Hey I thought right on red was allowed on the entire Island like it is in Nassau Co. (unlike the 5 boroughs of NYC).

Honest mistake on my part. Embarrassed, no. Maybe a little ****ed but not embarrassed
Click to expand...

I thought right on red was legal everywhere now.
 
Just tell them you were drunk and not thinking properly.

-Rich
 
Henning said:
I thought right on red was legal everywhere now.
Click to expand...

Nope. :nono: As usual, everything is more expensive in the good ol BIG APPLE:mad2:

"Right turns on red are permitted in many regions of North America. Western states have allowed it for more than 50 years; eastern states amended their traffic laws to allow it in the 1970s as a fuel-saving measure in response to motor fuel shortages in 1973 and 1979. All 50 states, the District of Columbia, Guam, and Puerto Rico have allowed right turns on red since 1 January 1980, except where prohibited by a sign or where right turns are controlled by dedicated traffic lights.
The few exceptions include New York City, where right turns on red are prohibited, unless a sign indicates otherwise.

In some states, such as New York and California, a right turn on red is prohibited when a red arrow is displayed."
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top