Brit Noise Abatement

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
I talked to a 757 pilot today, he was telling us about how in Heathrow and other GB airports they must do a descent profile that includes never leveling off. Apparently they are so sensitive to noise there that they never want anyone to throttle up, so their stars are a continuous descent onto final (and many pilots have difficulty with understanding or programming it because it is not sop in most countries).
Anyone experience this or have comment?
They also have 'arrivals to arrivals', sounded like a Pre-Star Star.
Maybe someone has some British charts?
 
Single descent approaches are the up and coming thing, it saves the airlines fuel and is typically faster. You can expect them to be more widespread in the US soon. Along with a growth in RNAV RNP approaches.
 
Nice long descent after a long polar flight. Seem to recall taht was a recipe for disaster... once.
 
The ability to use an aircraft's energy to put it exactly at a time and place the pilot wants it to be has always been a display I have enjoyed watching.

Back in the mid 80's I had an experience I still remember because the pilot's skill on that particular night was quite impressive.

I was on a Southwest 737-200 inbound to Houston Hobby. It was close to midnight. The descent was started the usual 20 minutes before touchdown, which was some 50-60 miles out I suppose.

As we let down and he configured the aircraft for landing I kept thinking he was going to add some power, but he had the energy management planned beautifully. It was so memorable because from the moment the pilot pulled back the throttles at the start of the descent he never moved them again until he closed them as we crossed the threshold.

It's not the greatest example of flying I've ever witnessed or anything like that, but it was just cool that the captain had his eighty-some thousand pound glider spot on a profile that ended up in the TDZ with the airspeed and altitude perfect.
 
3393RP said:
The ability to use an aircraft's energy to put it exactly at a time and place the pilot wants it to be has always been a display I have enjoyed watching.

Back in the mid 80's I had an experience I still remember because the pilot's skill on that particular night was quite impressive.

I was on a Southwest 737-200 inbound to Houston Hobby. It was close to midnight. The descent was started the usual 20 minutes before touchdown, which was some 50-60 miles out I suppose.

As we let down and he configured the aircraft for landing I kept thinking he was going to add some power, but he had the energy management planned beautifully. It was so memorable because from the moment the pilot pulled back the throttles at the start of the descent he never moved them again until he closed them as we crossed the threshold.

It's not the greatest example of flying I've ever witnessed or anything like that, but it was just cool that the captain had his eighty-some thousand pound glider spot on a profile that ended up in the TDZ with the airspeed and altitude perfect.
Click to expand...

It's not that hard if ATC allows pilot discretion. 30 miles per 10K to lose and adjust for weight and winds. You can fine tune with ground track.

Letting down from cruise would be 90 to 120 from airport. Closer if landing opposite direction or light. A 737 is in the neighborhood of 160K LBS. And power is absolutely brought up by 1,000 feet AGL. Nobody lands a jet with the power idle on short final. If it is you go around.
 
Yeah, sounds like good technique to me, if the ATC folks are making it happen. Good for the noise abatement crowd, good for fuel consumption and the airlines as well.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I talked to a 757 pilot today, he was telling us about how in Heathrow and other GB airports they must do a descent profile that includes never leveling off. Apparently they are so sensitive to noise there that they never want anyone to throttle up, so their stars are a continuous descent onto final (and many pilots have difficulty with understanding or programming it because it is not sop in most countries).
Anyone experience this or have comment?
They also have 'arrivals to arrivals', sounded like a Pre-Star Star.
Maybe someone has some British charts?
Click to expand...

This goes on at SFO as well. Actually, it's advantageous to the airline as well as it saves a buttload of fuel if you can close down the throttles at 390 and glide all the way to the threshold. The SFO experiment is even one in autonomous, ATC uploaded profile programs to the FMS taking it from altitude to CAT-III landing with the engines at flight idle. Noise means fuel, the less noise you make, the less fuel you use. Big jets down low guzzle fuel.
 
Captain said:
It's not that hard if ATC allows pilot discretion. 30 miles per 10K to lose and adjust for weight and winds. You can fine tune with ground track.

Letting down from cruise would be 90 to 120 from airport. Closer if landing opposite direction or light. A 737 is in the neighborhood of 160K LBS. And power is absolutely brought up by 1,000 feet AGL. Nobody lands a jet with the power idle on short final. If it is you go around.
Click to expand...

You're correct, of course. I exaggerated a bit. When he put out the laundry the throttles had to come up.

I thought the -200s were less than 100K lbs.
 
In other countries descents like that are common. Can't really go with "We'll start down when ATC tells us" you have to ask for it.
 
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