Brain Test to Diagnose A.D.H.D. Approved

[RJM62]

Not approved by the FAA, but by the FDA. Here's the NYT article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/16/health/brain-test-to-diagnose-adhd-is-approved.html

I'm not a doctor, a neuropsychologist, nor even a particularly smart individual, but I've taken enough coursework in psychology and neuropsychology to at least have some questions and mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, I wonder whether the test's theoretical underpinnings are valid. The fact that certain "atypical" brain wave patterns seem more prevalent in kids diagnosed with ADHD doesn't convince me that they necessarily represent a "disorder." I suspect that Einstein probably had "atypical" brain wave patterns, too.

On the other hand, if the test is in fact valid, it could be very valuable in helping to stem the rampant abuse of the diagnosis that's been going on for decades. Existing tests are pretty accurate when performed properly by qualified clinicians, but they also are very expensive. A less-expensive, objective test could help reduce the number of kids whose futures we're needlessly medicating away.

Finally, if the test is valid, eventually gains some credibility, and is accepted by FAA, it may help simplify the process for aspiring airmen who need to debunk decades-old ADD / ADHD "diagnoses" by school counselors, social workers, and other unqualified individuals.

-Rich

 

[bbchien]

More NYT mentality. I have no idea how such a tool can give insight into the neurocog quirks of an individual.....

This is more thinking along the lines of "a pill to make things right".
What really needs do happen is that the title 9 extra funding incentive for school districts to have a pilled kid, has to go away....

sigh.

 

[jnmeade]

I can't wait for businesses and insurance companies to get ahold of this or any such test. "You won't mind taking this short test, of course. We'll retain the results in case you reapply or NSA wants a copy. And there is no 'failure' but it may be that we would determine that your risk factors exceed our corporate parameters. Good luck."

 

[steingar]

I'll bet money the research underlying this is utter BS. The diagnosis is completely subjective, there isn't a biological marker of any kind. And ask an MD to find something and they will. Only way to do it properly is double blind and cold, and I bet money they didn't.

Maybe I'm wrong, I've seen none of the research going into this. But I'm always very suspicious of these kinds of findings.

 

[X3 Skier]

Wonder what "approval" means?

An experiment with 275 subjects means nothing unless it can be replicated independently by others multiple times.

Cheers

 

[RJM62]

More NYT mentality. I have no idea how such a tool can give insight into the neurocog quirks of an individual.....

This is more thinking along the lines of "a pill to make things right".
What really needs do happen is that the title 9 extra funding incentive for school districts to have a pilled kid, has to go away....

sigh.

Amen to that. I can't even count how many times people in my family and among my friends have been pressured into allowing their perfectly normal, happy, exuberant kids to be medicated.

I'm also sure I would have been one of those pilled kids if this diagnosis and the accompanying subsidy had been around when I was growing up. I was the quintessential class clown. Anything to break up the boredom was fair game.

And yeah, my attention wandered. That's because school was about as exciting as watching grass grow. They taught by repetition back then, and for kids who tended to pick things up right away, it was excruciatingly boring. Half the class was zoning out while the other half was reciting, "THREE TIME SEVEN EQUALS TWENTY-ONE" for the hundred and seventh time that day.

I'm disappointed that you believe the test is nonsense, however. I had hoped that some sort of objective measure that could be inexpensively administered would help stem the tide of bogus diagnoses. But alas, I was wrong.

-Rich

 

[bbchien]

Amen to that. I can't even count how many times people in my family and among my friends have been pressured into allowing their perfectly normal, happy, exuberant kids to be medicated.

I'm also sure I would have been one of those pilled kids if this diagnosis and the accompanying subsidy had been around when I was growing up. I was the quintessential class clown. Anything to break up the boredom was fair game.

And yeah, my attention wandered. That's because school was about as exciting as watching grass grow. They taught by repetition back then, and for kids who tended to pick things up right away, it was excruciatingly boring. Half the class was zoning out while the other half was reciting, "THREE TIME SEVEN EQUALS TWENTY-ONE" for the hundred and seventh time that day.

I'm disappointed that you believe the test is nonsense, however. I had hoped that some sort of objective measure that could be inexpensively administered would help stem the tide of bogus diagnoses. But alas, I was wrong.

-Rich

Prof. Steingar has nailed it.

 

[docmirror]

Some interesting snippets from the article:

"to help diagnose"

"tend to be more prevalent"

"The results showed that the device helped doctors make a more accurate diagnosis"

"it did not release the study’s data"

"the device would help health care providers more accurately determine"

I guess this is all settled then. The FDA is behind it, so that means it's all good. Makes me wonder how much NEBA paid the FDA guys for this result.

What a complete crock of equine feces.

 

[wsuffa]

Some interesting snippets from the article:

"to help diagnose"

"tend to be more prevalent"

"The results showed that the device helped doctors make a more accurate diagnosis"

"it did not release the study’s data"

"the device would help health care providers more accurately determine"

I guess this is all settled then. The FDA is behind it, so that means it's all good. Makes me wonder how much NEBA paid the FDA guys for this result.

What a complete crock of equine feces.

I predict we'll see more of this kind of thing as Obamacare kicks in - gotta find ways to cut costs.

 

[docmirror]

Well, I don't see this as any kind of cost savings anywhere. It looks to me like a Rube Goldberg flashing lights, bells and whistle method of determining behavior by measuring two, and only two brain waves. They might as well measure pubic hair length or ear lobe droop.

It looks like an enrichment scheme to me that now has the rubber stamp of the FDA, which means it will prolly qualify for fed funds, thus depleting the health care budget in yet one more creative way without providing any actual heath benefit.

Edit: No offense meant to the Jews(I'm one of them) with my Rube comment, now that this is the new full PC POA.

 

[steingar]

Well, I don't see this as any kind of cost savings anywhere. It looks to me like a Rube Goldberg flashing lights, bells and whistle method of determining behavior by measuring two, and only two brain waves. They might as well measure pubic hair length or ear lobe droop.

It looks like an enrichment scheme to me that now has the rubber stamp of the FDA, which means it will prolly qualify for fed funds, thus depleting the health care budget in yet one more creative way without providing any actual heath benefit.

Edit: No offense meant to the Jews(I'm one of them) with my Rube comment, now that this is the new full PC POA.

They've uncovered what appears to be a correlation. Given the subject matter and means of determination I would like to see things way tighter than I have thus far. Heck, even with a quantitative biomarker I like to see tighter correlation unless there is a convincing biological mechanism. And I'd really like to see the science involved. I'm quite concerned that those carrying it out perhaps have some connection to the device in question. It has happened before.

 

[RJM62]

They've uncovered what appears to be a correlation. Given the subject matter and means of determination I would like to see things way tighter than I have thus far. Heck, even with a quantitative biomarker I like to see tighter correlation unless there is a convincing biological mechanism. And I'd really like to see the science involved. I'm quite concerned that those carrying it out perhaps have some connection to the device in question. It has happened before.

I'd also like to know how accurately the members of the group with whose diagnoses the test correlated were diagnosed. Did they undergo the full battery of tests; or were they rubber-stamped on the advice of a school guidance counselor, like most of these kids are?

Of all the kids I know who have been "diagnosed" with ADD/ADHD, only two or three actually underwent the neurocog evals -- and that was only because their parents fought the diagnosis. The rest were just handed scrips and pills as if they were jelly beans.

-Rich

 

[Headspace]

I'll bet money the research underlying this is utter BS. The diagnosis is completely subjective, there isn't a biological marker of any kind. And ask an MD to find something and they will. Only way to do it properly is double blind and cold, and I bet money they didn't.

Maybe I'm wrong, I've seen none of the research going into this. But I'm always very suspicious of these kinds of findings.

Not a medical expert here, but I noted awhile back that the New York Times is not a peer-reviewed journal.

 

[X3 Skier]

Not a medical expert here, but I noted awhile back that the New York Times is not a peer-reviewed journal.

Au Contraire! It is peer reviewed by MSNBC, The Washington Post, Mother Jones, The Nation and The New Republic.

Cheers

 

[NineThreeKilo]

Not approved by the FAA, but by the FDA. Here's the NYT article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/16/health/brain-test-to-diagnose-adhd-is-approved.html

I'm not a doctor, a neuropsychologist, nor even a particularly smart individual, but I've taken enough coursework in psychology and neuropsychology to at least have some questions and mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, I wonder whether the test's theoretical underpinnings are valid. The fact that certain "atypical" brain wave patterns seem more prevalent in kids diagnosed with ADHD doesn't convince me that they necessarily represent a "disorder." I suspect that Einstein probably had "atypical" brain wave patterns, too.

On the other hand, if the test is in fact valid, it could be very valuable in helping to stem the rampant abuse of the diagnosis that's been going on for decades. Existing tests are pretty accurate when performed properly by qualified clinicians, but they also are very expensive. A less-expensive, objective test could help reduce the number of kids whose futures we're needlessly medicating away.

Finally, if the test is valid, eventually gains some credibility, and is accepted by FAA, it may help simplify the process for aspiring airmen who need to debunk decades-old ADD / ADHD "diagnoses" by school counselors, social workers, and other unqualified individuals.

-Rich

Sounds like someone is trying to bring back the riddlin craze of the 90s!

More pill$ you $ell the better!!

 

[douglas393]

ADHD is a behavioral diagnosis and the powers that be want it that way so they can control the masses. EEG's are not that simple to read, and the number of neurologists that can read EEG's well are far outnumbered by the ones that cannot. So do the math. This is not designed to make the diagnosis more accurate, this is designed to make the diagnosis more!

 

[docmirror]

If I were a tin-foil hat kinda guy, I would have real problems with this kind of stuff. I'm not that conspiracy minded, so I don't see the large hand of fascism at work, much more the work of some creative ways of bilking the treasury, aided and abetted by the FDA.

 

[ClimbnSink]

And the war on masculinity continues.