Botched takeoff -- tips before next lesson?

[AndRotate]

I just got back home from a flight lesson. We did power on/off stalls and steep turns both without and with trim. I momentarily got out of standards with an altitude gain of about +150 ft on the right-hand steep turn with trim, but otherwise was within standards for all maneuvers. Where I struggled, and I mean really struggled, was with my takeoff. My CFI had to jump in to correct so we didn't have an excursion or LOC.

Here's the setup. We were lined up and waiting on the runway, heading 280. Winds 240 at 5. Full aileron crosswind correction applied. We were cleared for takeoff and I put heels to the floor and accelerated to full power, albeit a little slower than I should have. Maintaining the centerline went very well with rudder control. Airspeed came alive, oil was green/green. I began to decrease crosswind correction as the airspeed came alive. Then at rotation speed, I did not apply enough backpressure. We continued accelerating and eventually came off the ground, but just barely. Immediately, the airplane nosed to the left and we were off the centerline. I wasn't sure if I was overcorrecting on the crosswind or if I was not putting in enough right rudder. I am not entirely sure which correction I applied in which order. I definitely had my attention more on the visual reference of my heading than on my attitude on the horizon and whatever I was doing was not correcting the situation. My CFI jumped in and we made it to a climb successfully. After the brief correction he made, I took over the flight controls again. I had way too much right rudder in now, probably because I just went way off to the left and it was fresh in my head that that is what I might have done wrong. He pointed this out and I looked at the slip indicator and backed my rudder pressure off and looked out the side window to see if I was better. Doing this, I again lost track of my attitude and we gained speed well above Vy. Again, he pointed it out and I started to correct for that. Eventually, I got coordinated, climbed out, and then had an otherwise very successful lesson.

Basically, it was just a massive slop of a takeoff, and unfortunately, that's par for the course for me so far. My takeoffs are scary. I feel like I am doing really well for my low hours once in flight, but the takeoff is way behind my maneuvers in terms of my skill as a student pilot. Besides for the obvious (practicing as much as possible with my CFI), what tips do you guys have? If any of you were really bad at takeoffs initially, what tips/tricks worked for you to make them smooth and not sloppy/dangerous?

 

[Zeldman]

3 things.

Practice, practice, practice.

Flying is not a normal part of human life. It will take a few tries before getting the feel down.

Full crosswind deflection might have been too much for such a light wind. Plus not letting off the crosswind deflection as quickly as the speed built up. If in a high wing trainer, the high wing is little more sensitive to crosswinds than a low wing plane.

Maybe let your instructor demonstrate a few take offs with your hands lightly on the controls to try to get the feel.

Not one of us here on PoA did it right the first time, just relax and listen to your instructor.

 

[WannFly]

That’s not the first time you would mess something up. That’s why you have the ballast on the right seat. There are many times I tried to unsuccessfully kill myself and the CFI and ruin the rental.

 

[bflynn]

Overall, don't worry about making a mistake or even several. It's part of the learning process. I'm sure your instructor appreciates the opportunity to raise his heart rate, it's like free cardio.

Taking off 280 with winds from 240 was crosswind from the left, but at 4 kts, it really wasn't a lot. That's a 40 degree angle, so the crosswind component was like 2 kts, hardly anything. I suspect that by the time you were at flying speed, you probably needed just a little roll and you had too much. That's just feel and judgment, it will come.

Regardless, it's a balancing act and you'll eventually get it. There's two tasks going on at the same time and it just takes time to do them without thinking. Task #1 is to manage the crosswind correction with roll without moving left or right. This is going to increase in force as you get faster. Task #2 is the use the rudder to keep the airplane pointed straight down the runway, the two together are called a slip and will keep you flying straight down the runway. Ok, there's also task #3, which is to rotate at Vr.

You should lift off nose wheel first, then downwind main gear will come up first because of the crosswind correction, but the time difference between the two main gear coming up will probably be less than a second. Don't try to force it, just let it happen. Once off the ground and climbing, roll flat and use the rudder to crab so you're tracking the runway heading. Until you crab, you're still in that slip. There's a lot happening at once, but in a few weeks, it will be second nature.

There is a maneuver (dutch rolls?) you can ask to do at altitude to get the feel of the airplane. You'll do the same thing as #1 and #2, roll one way but use the rudder to track straight. Then smoothly roll the other way and switch your rudder. With practice, you'll be able to switch back and forth without turning, say 2-3 seconds to switch left to right. I found this to be the best way for me to feel how the airplane flies.

 

[GRG55]

As Zeldman said, work with your instructor. It just takes practice. You will improve.

As for this particular take off, you may have been too concerned about the crosswind at the expense of the more important elements of airspeed and pitch attitude to climb.

The 5 knot wind was 40 degrees off your runway heading, which means the actual crosswind component was only about 3 knots. That's not enough to require full crosswind correction before you start your takeoff roll, and even after you are airborne a 3 knot crosswind is not going to move the airplane off the centreline very quickly.

Good job with the rudders to maintain centreline on the takeoff roll. Concentrate on getting the airplane off the ground first, and then once you confirm you are climbing if you are getting slowly drifted off the centreline make a gentle coordinated turn into the wind to crab the airplane. Remember, your forward groundspeed will be much higher than the 3 knot crosswind, so you only need a very small correction angle in this situation. As you gain experience doing that in light crosswinds your instructor will introduce to higher crosswinds.

 

[Daleandee]

One of my friends at the airport that flys with me now and again is taking lessons. Before he was learning to fly I'd take him up and let him fly mine a little. My plane is quite light on the controls so it's not a very good trainer for a newbie pilot. My friend would often say, "If something were to happen to you I could land the airplane." I told him that landing wasn't a hard thing to do but until he had learned the skills required that in my tailwheel airplane he would likely get badly injured or even killed trying to land it without learning to do so. Now that he's taking lessons he better understands.

My point it that flying an airplane really isn't a difficult thing to do but the skills to fly one must be learned. In the book, "Stick & Rudder" Wolfgang Langewiesche begins by pointing out that everything a person thinks to do in a airplane is wrong as far as flying it is concerned. For instance a wing drop in a stall is almost always followed by opposite aileron by the untrained. That is something that a person must be trained not to do unless spins are on the agenda for the day.

My old instructor told me that one of the hardest things to do was look at the ground rushing towards you and push the stick forward. But if it's stalled the only way to break that stall is to lower the angle of attack of the wing. The normal reaction is to try and pull the stick backwards out of the floor and force the nose up ... but that will get you killed.

Don't worry over doing it wrong while you are learning to fly a plane. Hopefully once you are the PIC you will have acquired the necessary skills to keep you and your passengers safe.

 

[TommyG]

Use that rudder on the runway to maintain centerline, as soon as you lift off, only use enough rudder to keep the ball centered. If there is a x-wind let the plane crab naturally into the wind. You want your course to track the extended centerline on climb out, your heading will be off due to the crab into the wind.

 

[Will Kumley]

Out of curiosity, how tight were you holding the yoke/stick? Sounds like you may have had a death grip on the control which caused a few issues for you. Most of the trainers at my local airport will practically climb right at Vy naturally once off the ground if trimmed for takeoff. I say most because some of the Cessna's like to climb closer to Vx when trimmed for takeoff. A death grip on the control can cause unintended rolls, nose down, or nose up without you realizing you are doing them especially while looking around. When I was training and had a death grip I would always drift left in the downwind anytime I looked at the runway to ensure I had my spacing correct and that I was flying parallel with the runway. I never noticed it until the CFI told me I was rolling the aircraft when looking left.

 

[chemgeek]

Most light aircraft will require rotation to lift off cleanly at the appropriate takeoff speed. You can find recommendations in the POH. Briefly, when you reach the appropriate speed, you should raise the nose to the appropriate angle, and the airplane will smartly lift of and start climbing. Hold this attitude until reaching the appropriate climb speed, say Vy. With practice, you should be able to do this without difficulty. Once in the air, maintaining alignment of the nose to the runway is not required, and counterproductive. (Maintaining nose alignment with the runway in a crosswind will result in a slip, which will degrade climb performance.) Crab the airplane into a crosswind in a level attitude to maintain track and maximum climb rate.

Cessna 150/152s are not great trainers in this regard, as they will fly themselves off the runway without intervention. When I started flying little Grummans, I had to learn how to do takeoffs more properly. An AA-5X will pretty much run off the end of the runway unless it is rotated to 7.5-10 degrees nose up at 60 mph. If you do that, it will jump off the runway and accelerate to Vy quickly in ground effect.

 

[Lndwarrior]

Early in training the problem is knowing where to look, at what time. If you're not focusing on the right information at the right time, it leads to incorrect responses.

For example,
- what instruments or visual cues should I be looking at to start the take off roll?
- once rolling, what should I be focusing on during acceleration?
- at rotation speed, where should my focus be?

Each instructor will have slightly different ways of teaching the above. Consider breaking down each segment of the take off and discussing with your instructor.

It comes with time but none of this is intuitive!

 

[AndRotate]

I just want to thank everyone for their input. I ran through a bunch of scenarios in FS2020 based on the comments above to re-create what happened. The pitch/bank/speed all seemed to happen about the exact same as in air when I massively overcorrected for the crosswind with ailerons and then applied overcorrection to right rudder pressure when I started going left. So I think it's spot on that because the focus on the ground maneuvers was crosswind corrections. I overly focused on that aspect during the takeoff at the expense of the more important ones. I'll go get my redemption on Saturday with my CFI. He really should start charging me based on heart rate and not tach time. Bet he'd make a fortune.

 

[Daleandee]

Out of curiosity, how tight were you holding the yoke/stick? Sounds like you may have had a death grip on the control which caused a few issues for you.

One way to train away the death grip is to use a pencil placed on top of your middle & ring finger & under your index & pinky finger. Use you thumb and middle finger on the stick or yoke:

 

[PaulS]

Sounds like you let go of the rudder when you rotated. Generally I find the amount of rudder you need to stay straight on the runway is the amount of rudder you need in the initial climb, so keep it in there, get safely off the ground, make sure you are climbing and on course, then take a quick peek at the ball.

You don't say how much time you have, but dwelling on every mistake will slow your learning down. Correct the mistake, talk it over with your instructor if you need to then move on.

 

[aterry1067]

Ha. I am almost 40 hours in, and if I can get the mains off the ground before we go barreling off through the desert, I consider it a good take off. It seems I am trying to chase cats when I am maneuvering the airplane.

"A little more right rudder...NOT THAT MUCH.....RIGHT RUDDER.....NOT THAT.......PULL UP!!!!

 

[Tools]

Hmmm... no bad advice here. But here is something different that may or may not help.

On V1 cuts in big jet simulators, really more similar to crosswind takeoffs in a light civil than you may think, I visualize football goal posts at the end of the runway. Do what ever it takes to get through them. That will keep you above the runway.

And DEFINITELY relax. This is FUN!! Fly through the uprights like your a Red Bull race pilot! Score three and off to the next fun thing.

 

[Tools]

Also, you are almost certainly over controlling...

For now, concentrate on how much rudder it takes to maintain centerline with a crosswind. This correction is preventing wind vaning. The nosewheel is helping some. You will need a little more as it comes off the ground. Just add a little more as you rotate and LOCK IT IN. Don’t move your feet at all. It’s close enough, do the rest with the wings to get through the goal posts.

 

[unsafervguy]

you are really at a normal stage in training. your mind is still processing everything you need to do to takeoff. the object of the lesson is to teach muscle memory and hand eye coordination. you are trying to get to the point that you are no longer thinking about what to do, you just do it without thinking. take off for the most part is a totally outside experience. a quick glance down to check TO speed and then outside. as tools said, keep the eyes at the end of runway for the goal post. I am guessing the part of the problem is you were looking to close to the nose of the airplane and not the end of the runway. watching the end gives you the best visual cue as to your lateral track (rudder on the ground to track centerline) and aileron to keep wings level. I can tell exactly where a student is looking on TO just by the way the aircraft is responding. think about it, when you drive are you looking right at the end of the hood, or are you looking down the road? looking to close to the aircraft causes overcontrol due to loss of depth perception.