Born Again?

T

Ticket puncher

Filing Flight Plan
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Apr 12, 2008
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Wally
About 25 years ago I stopped flying....cold, for a variety of reasons. At the time I had a CFI, CFII, MEI and an ATP with close to 2500 hours, many of those as an instructor. I'm retired now and have started flying again and can't believe how much I missed it. The upshot of this is that I'm looking for some insights and maybe a little advice from those who have gone through the process of "getting up to speed again" or assisting someone who has.

I've put in about 10 hours in the last 90 days and did about 1.5 hours of hood work today (first time I've done that in 2 1/2 decades). I was surprised and so was the instructor (I say this with no sense of humility) how little I had forgotten about the basics and the precision. But completely botched a simple VOR orientation problem! :redface: It's odd both from a knowledge and practical standpoint what I remember and what I don't. :confused: You would think that one would probably retain the fundamentals and wouldn't retain those things requiring precision. But, not so! I could probably shoot a decent approach but my once graceful and light as a feather landings (at least that's how I remember them) are not all that graceful or consistent.:hairraise:

Just looking for some insights/advice and shared experiences to benchmark against, if that makes sense.
 
Sorry I cannot contribute the insight you seek, but I will provide a hearty congratulations to you for the decision to come back in, along with a welcome to the board.

Keep us posted!
 
Welcome, Wally! I didn't start again, but I started late at 45.

Where do you fly out of?
 
Wally, Welcome to the board.

Three years ago, I got back into flying after being absent for nineteen years. I've since gone on for my instrument rating, a commercial ticket and recently my CFI ticket. I wasn't too bad after all that time but man did a lot of ground knowledge change. "Class what airspace?"

If you think a lot has changed since you were in it before, try almost twenty years. But, you can do it. Heck, if you're retired you ought to move on through and get the skills up to snuff and eventually get back into teaching. If you're up to the task, you'll certainly stay busy even for just part-time.

Keep us informed and how you're doing in getting back into the flow. Ya picked a good place to come hang out. There's a wealth of knowledge on the board more than willing to help out. But, they won't make donations for me to buy that Pitts I'm wanting! ;)
 
Ticket puncher said:
About 25 years ago I stopped flying....cold, for a variety of reasons. At the time I had a CFI, CFII, MEI and an ATP with close to 2500 hours, many of those as an instructor. I'm retired now and have started flying again and can't believe how much I missed it. The upshot of this is that I'm looking for some insights and maybe a little advice from those who have gone through the process of "getting up to speed again" or assisting someone who has.

I've put in about 10 hours in the last 90 days and did about 1.5 hours of hood work today (first time I've done that in 2 1/2 decades). I was surprised and so was the instructor (I say this with no sense of humility) how little I had forgotten about the basics and the precision. But completely botched a simple VOR orientation problem! :redface: It's odd both from a knowledge and practical standpoint what I remember and what I don't. :confused: You would think that one would probably retain the fundamentals and wouldn't retain those things requiring precision. But, not so! I could probably shoot a decent approach but my once graceful and light as a feather landings (at least that's how I remember them) are not all that graceful or consistent.:hairraise:

Just looking for some insights/advice and shared experiences to benchmark against, if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

My experience was much as yours, I hadn't flown instrumnts in over 10 years (heck, was flying planes that had no instruments) then had to fly an ILS, and did it perfectly centered to minimums. My theory is that since we store less muscle memory- hand/eye stuff and that it stores in a different place on the brain map than abstract/academic knowledge, that it has less chance of being over written and buried under newer knowledge. The brain works surprizingly similar to a hard drive in that even though parts of a "file" may get over written(although the brain seems to bury them under new layers), enough fragments are left to pull up that the brain can fill in the blanks and rebuild the data, typically more or less correctly, although occassionally, it loses fragments, or can't figure out where they fit and then it takes some outside influence, or more time as the brain shifts the fragments around into different spaces trying out different combinations until the "file check" system finally says "That's It!" and all of a sudden the bulb turns on and we snap and go "Hey, I just remembered...." The brain truely is an amazing thing.
 
Stan;

I fly out of an uncontrolled field NW of Mt. Vernon, WA (better known as "Soggy Bottom, WA". It's an excellent place to fly IFR...mountains, lots of ice, freezing rain, fog, turbulence and an occasional thunderstorm.

Henning;

Your description is exactly what I'm experiencing!

KennyFlys;

I am surprised by the the work available for instructors. Given the cost of AC rentals and instruction I'm amazed that anyone can afford to fly. When I learned to fly (back when rocks were new) you couldn't walk ten feet without tripping over an instructor and instructing jobs were hard to find.

The advances in electronics are, not unexpectedly I guess, a wonder. I recently flew a cherokee 140 with a Garmin GPS....WOW! Although I confess a preference for analog....but I didn't turn the GPS off!

All in all getting up to speed is going to fun although some younger instructors I've talked to don't know quite how to handle me or my situation.

It's fun!!:D
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Uhhh, Kenny...

I think he's got ya beat. ;) :rofl:
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:D Oops! I would have been the first to post after Wally. But, in talking to Tom in the chat room, looking at other pages and kicking my cat around, I finally got around to it. I had the ten hours stuck in mind but thinking that was the ten years. Yep, he's got me beat by a long stretch. I don't think much more had changed from his time to mine. But after that, a lot changed for both of us.
 
Wally, welcome aboard! I was a late start to flying, but didn't have a hiatus like that, so I can only say "good on ya" for getting back into it!
 
Welcome, Wally. It must be an amazing feeling to get back into something after a quarter of a century of not doing it. Way to get back into it! I'd love to hear more on the changes you've seen between the 25 years, and wether you like them or not.
 
Ross;

In many respects little has changed and in other areas big changes;

Airspace is a little more complicated and restrictive but that was to be expected I guess with the growth of commercial aviation and of course 9/11. Over all the regs. don't seem to have changed all that much.

I'm not a fan of automated weather I felt much better knowing that there was a real person with a set of eyeballs and judgement that could evaluate, interpret and report the weather and in the context of what a pilot really wanted to know. Back when, there was, for lack of any other description, a bond between the weather observers, FSS folks, controllers and pilots because we were all in aviation and it was a team effort. As a pilot I relied on that sense of community and mutual understanding of what was needed. I don't see where automation and outsourcing has improved the situation. But, my perceptions at this point may be wrong.

This item probably really dates me but..I think I was just starting my CFI training when the FAA was forced into publishing exam questions and associated answers. Personally I'm glad I didn't have the Q&A's, I glad I had to study and learn to the depth necessary that allowed me to answer almost any written or oral question thrown at me. Maybe having the Q&A's has produced more knowledgeable and safer pilots...I don't know. But when I hear of instructors "teaching the exam" I get a little concerned.

The improvements in electronics are a marvel. So much information so many options. When I took my ATP ride it was in a new Seneca with DME, HSI and RNAV all relatively new then for light aircraft....I thought I had died and gone to heaven. Now GPS and more improvements on the way. Does anyone have to learn pilotage and DR anymore? Mind you if I owned my own airplane it would have GPS but I just wonder if were not losing some of the "flying" experience with the electronic advances.

I am sorry to see what seems to be the decline of general aviation over the years. I guess I was lucky. I did the majority of of my flying during the Golden Age of General Aviation. I think the competition between Cessna and Piper flight schools and their structured training programs did a lot for GA. I guess Piper dropped out of the training business?

One thing I'm happy to say has not changed is the thrill of flying and being able to associate with some of the greatest group of folks I've ever known. The "hook" of flying is still alive and well! I still run into people that would sell their first born to get another hour in the air...so...overall not much of the important aspects of flying has changed over the years!
 
What a great write-up!

It's interesting to hear from someone on the complete opposite side of the spectrum from me, and their opinions on the type of industry I was kind of forced into.
 
Ticket puncher said:
Ross;

In many respects little has changed and in other areas big changes;

Airspace is a little more complicated and restrictive but that was to be expected I guess with the growth of commercial aviation and of course 9/11. Over all the regs. don't seem to have changed all that much.

I'm not a fan of automated weather I felt much better knowing that there was a real person with a set of eyeballs and judgement that could evaluate, interpret and report the weather and in the context of what a pilot really wanted to know. Back when, there was, for lack of any other description, a bond between the weather observers, FSS folks, controllers and pilots because we were all in aviation and it was a team effort. As a pilot I relied on that sense of community and mutual understanding of what was needed. I don't see where automation and outsourcing has improved the situation. But, my perceptions at this point may be wrong.
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Nope, uour perceptions are spot on in my opinion. I started flying just near the end of the days when there were FSS stations all over the place, and you could walk in, have a cup of coffee and go over the weather with someone who had real knowledge of the local and regional weather patterns, especially in the mountains, and who could give you real advice on routings to take through which passes, and would sometimes countermand the predictions that were being generated by the central office (more than once while reviewing, I'd have the briefer say "Well this says...but that's not right, what's going to happen is..."). That doesn't happen anymore. Basically, all the briefer knows now is the information on the computer, same as you can download from DUAT(S).
 
Good for you, Wally!
I thought my 4-year hiatus from flying was brutal... 25 years really is a long time.
Sounds like you're doing OK with it: I'll tell you that even after a mere four years (did I just say that?), I was also surprised that my basic skills hadn't deteriorated so much as the details.
I did have the sense to hit the books before getting back into it, but I was shocked at how hard it was for me to rip through my old stack of flash cards I'd made back when I was studying for my PP written and check ride... I could answer those questions all correctly in one attempt back then!

But it came back quickly enough... just have to bang around the dusty old file cabinets in your mind a bit; it's all still there somewhere.

I wouldn't worry about the landings- that should come back, too.
good luck, and enjoy!!
 
rottydaddy said:
I did have the sense to hit the books before getting back into it, but I was shocked at how hard it was for me to rip through my old stack of flash cards I'd made back when I was studying for my PP written and check ride... I could answer those questions all correctly in one attempt back then!
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Yeah, but Wally should be hitting the new books, not the ones he learned from over 25 years ago! Knowing about the old ATC and FSS systems isn't oging to help him, and I'll guarantee there's no mention of GPS in his notes!:no: Of course, he's already shown that he knows this!:yes: I might recommend an FIRC as a good way to get a quick overview of any gaps, but it wouldn't be sufficient. Wally'll need to hit the source materials, especially if you intend to get back to teaching. You don't mention if you're planning to do that or just fly yourself.
 
I'm not sure if I'm going to get back into teaching or not. I did enjoy it and the FAA tells me all I have to do is take another check ride to get the CFI, CFII and MEI back. But, in reality after a long absence there is more to it than that...much more! Right now the goal is to get back to the level of knowledge and proficiency I had when a set down the flight bag many years ago. So, about 6 months ago I bought the books necessary to get the knowledge level up. Essentially I started at square one , theory of flight, weather, etc.. I had thought about going through a series of formal ground schools but I think I can do better studying on my own and use the large testing data base available both in printed form and on the various web sites. Although an instrument ground school remains an option.

The hard part has been trying to find an instructor that understands the situation and knows how to apply their abilities to my situation. I've been up with a couple of guys and I wasn't sure sometimes who was teaching who! So, what I've done is develop lesson plans for my self and then discuss it with the instructor and tell him what I'd like to do and why. That approach seems to be working. At any rate it is fun, almost as much fun as learning it the first time!


What is an FRIC??
 
Ticket puncher said:
What is an FRIC??
Click to expand...
An FIRC is a Flight Instructor Refresher Clinic. Basically a two-day ground school for flight instructors to maintain their currency. AOPA's Air Safety Foundation has one: [SIZE=-1]www.aopa.org/asf/firc/. It's available either in person or via the web.[/SIZE]
 
gprellwitz said:
An FIRC is a Flight Instructor Refresher Clinic. Basically a two-day ground school for flight instructors to maintain their currency. AOPA's Air Safety Foundation has one: [SIZE=-1]www.aopa.org/asf/firc/. It's available either in person or via the web.[/SIZE]
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Wally, in your particular case it will require a full-blown checkride for proficiency "Instructional Knowledge" level. If currency is not maintained, the proficiency check is required which is effectively retaking the checkride. It may take some work to get ya up to par. The nice thing is you should be able to do it with a DPE rather than a FSDO inspector.
 
Wally, welcome back to flying! I'm a newly-minted private pilot, but I also tend to learn better on my own rather than through a ground school. For that, I would recommend making use of the Sporty's DVD's or a computer-based training program for your study.

A FIRC is a Flight Instructor Refresher Clinic, I believe.
 
gprellwitz said:
Yeah, but Wally should be hitting the new books, not the ones he learned from over 25 years ago! Knowing about the old ATC and FSS systems isn't oging to help him, and I'll guarantee there's no mention of GPS in his notes!:no: Of course, he's already shown that he knows this!:yes: I might recommend an FIRC as a good way to get a quick overview of any gaps, but it wouldn't be sufficient. Wally'll need to hit the source materials, especially if you intend to get back to teaching. You don't mention if you're planning to do that or just fly yourself.
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Good point... even after less than ten years I had to throw some cards away and update others. My mention of that study aid was less a recommendation than a point about how we fear rust on the hand/eye stuff, but it's often the book-learnin' stuff that fades first.
 
Attendance at an FIRC might not reinstate your CFI ticket (as noted above, you'll need a complete CFI practical test to do that, although a test for any of your CFI ratings renews them all), but it's probably the best way around for you to get yourself up to date on rules, regs, procedures, airspace, etc. It's a really great way to start the rebirthing process.
 
I've talked to the FAA and they did indeed say I would have to take a check ride. I wonder what the rides are like now? I've heard some real horror stories from folks that have let their certs expire and have had to take a ride. One fellow told me that the Feds had him on the grill (ground and air) for almost 6 hours. They even gave him homework over lunch on the regs. The air portion amounted to teaching turns about a point. I think my original took only 1 hour and 45 minutes and it also was turns about a point.

Originally I thought that I would have to take a ride for each of the certificates (CFI, II and MEI) but no, just one and it doesn't have to be in a complex aircraft. So, I take one ride in a cherokee 140 and all three are restored. That's amazing!! Sounds almost to good to be true!!! Has anyone taken the ride lately, it would be helpful to get some feedback.
 
gprellwitz said:
An FIRC is a Flight Instructor Refresher Clinic. Basically a two-day ground school for flight instructors to maintain their currency. AOPA's Air Safety Foundation has one: [SIZE=-1]www.aopa.org/asf/firc/. It's available either in person or via the web.[/SIZE]
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That doesn't work after awhile. When I checked into renewing my CFI after 12 years, they told me I had to do another checkride.
 
Henning said:
That doesn't work after awhile. When I checked into renewing my CFI after 12 years, they told me I had to do another checkride.
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For the record, I never said it would restore his ratings. I said:
gprellwitz said:
I might recommend an FIRC as a good way to get a quick overview of any gaps, but it wouldn't be sufficient.
Click to expand...

and

gprellwitz said:
An FIRC is a Flight Instructor Refresher Clinic. Basically a two-day ground school for flight instructors to maintain their currency.
Click to expand...
 
Ticket puncher said:
I've talked to the FAA and they did indeed say I would have to take a check ride. I wonder what the rides are like now? I've heard some real horror stories from folks that have let their certs expire and have had to take a ride. One fellow told me that the Feds had him on the grill (ground and air) for almost 6 hours. They even gave him homework over lunch on the regs. The air portion amounted to teaching turns about a point. I think my original took only 1 hour and 45 minutes and it also was turns about a point.
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The stories you're hearing are accurate for initial CFI rides, but not for additional rating rides. I haven't heard anything about reinstatement rides, but I suspect they would be more like the add-on rides, especially since you can take them with a DPE rather than a FSDO inspector.
Originally I thought that I would have to take a ride for each of the certificates (CFI, II and MEI) but no, just one and it doesn't have to be in a complex aircraft. So, I take one ride in a cherokee 140 and all three are restored. That's amazing!! Sounds almost to good to be true!!!
Click to expand...
...but it is true, because it is only one certificate with three ratings, not three certificates.
 
A PDK school hired a guy who had returned to teaching to supplement his income after flying at ASA a while. All it took for him was a ride with a DPE authorized for CFIs.
 
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