bore scope...?

simtech

simtech

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Simtech
As some of you may remember, I'm looking at a plane that was last overhauled in 94' with 677 hours on it currently. It is flying weekly now and oil samples and compressions all look good. So I was considering having it bore scoped to see what the inside looks like as far as pitting and what not. How much should one expect to pay for that service and will I get an accurate picture of what is going on inside?

I keep telling myself to look elsewhere but this plane keeps calling me. Oh its a 1972 Sundowner 180 with the lycoming O-360 I beleive..
 
I have purchased airplanes,with and without a bore scope.As I remember the cost want bad since it was part of the pre purchase inspection. Did see some pitting once was not a deal breaker or a problem.
 
I have always been under the impression that looking at the cam via borescope in a Lycoming isn't a real possibility. Someone mention going up through the drain was possible, but I've never heard of anyone actually doing that.
 
simtech said:
As some of you may remember, I'm looking at a plane that was last overhauled in 94' with 677 hours on it currently. It is flying weekly now and oil samples and compressions all look good. So I was considering having it bore scoped to see what the inside looks like as far as pitting and what not. How much should one expect to pay for that service and will I get an accurate picture of what is going on inside?

I keep telling myself to look elsewhere but this plane keeps calling me. Oh its a 1972 Sundowner 180 with the lycoming O-360 I beleive..
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What you need to see in the 0-360 can't be seen with a bore scope.

pitting in the cylinders will heal itself.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
I have always been under the impression that looking at the cam via borescope in a Lycoming isn't a real possibility. Someone mention going up through the drain was possible, but I've never heard of anyone actually doing that.
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Going up thru the sump will show you this
 

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Tom-D said:
What you need to see in the 0-360 can't be seen with a bore scope.

pitting in the cylinders will heal itself.
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So pretty much its a waste and a crap shoot as to what the bottem end is like?? Thats more or less what I was concerned about, the crank and cam.
 
Tom-D said:
Going up thru the sump will show you this
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Well, now, that's not terribly helpful now, is it? ;)

I guess pulling a jug is the only option...
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Well, now, that's not terribly helpful now, is it? ;)

I guess pulling a jug is the only option...
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That won't tell ya much either.

Drain and flush the engine, put clean oil in it and a new filter run it 5 hours and drain and flush the engine again and see what is in the filter.

that will tell you more about future maintenance than anything else.
 
What is this"flush" the engine?
 
Tom-D said:
That won't tell ya much either.

Drain and flush the engine, put clean oil in it and a new filter run it 5 hours and drain and flush the engine again and see what is in the filter.

that will tell you more about future maintenance than anything else.
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So if oil samples have been fine, more than likely everything is okay?? Well providing oil samples show particulate matter which I'm assuming it would.
 
Tom-D said:
Chase out every thing you can from the sump with the best solvent you can find.
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Mightn't that break loose stuff you might not want broken loose? And do you do hat from the bottom up through he sump drain?
 
simtech said:

So if oil samples have been fine, more than likely everything is okay?? Well providing oil samples show particulate matter which I'm assuming it would.
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Do you have a trend?

if not, there is no sense starting one now, unless it is a low time engine.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Mightn't that break loose stuff you might not want broken loose? And do you do hat from the bottom up through he sump drain?
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If there is that much crud in there wouldn't you like to know that?
 
Tom-D said:
Do you have a trend?

if not, there is no sense starting one now, unless it is a low time engine.
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This engine has made TBO once. It was overhauled 20 years ago and accumulated 677 hours in that time. I'm thinking about buying the plane but 20 years out is bothersome to me. So I was wanting to see the bottom end but apparently the bore scope won't help me there.
 
Tom-D said:
Do you have a trend?

if not, there is no sense starting one now, unless it is a low time engine.
Click to expand...

There's a guy over on the red board who did oil analysis every oil change for a couple thousand hours and it came back looking great right up until the lifter spalled and he found metal in the filter.
 
simtech said:
This engine has made TBO once. It was overhauled 20 years ago and accumulated 677 hours in that time. I'm thinking about buying the plane but 20 years out is bothersome to me. So I was wanting to see the bottom end but apparently the bore scope won't help me there.
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How much time has it had in the last 6 months?
 
Chip Sylverne said:
There's a guy over on the red board who did oil analysis every oil change for a couple thousand hours and it came back looking great right up until the lifter spalled and he found metal in the filter.
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Shows to go ya, how useful oil analysis is.
 
Tom-D said:
How much time has it had in the last 6 months?
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Id have to look again. The guy has owned it for the last 2 years and flies it weekly and has oil changes every 6 months. I looked at the log book but cant remember how much it has flown exactly in the last 6 months.
 
simtech said:
Id have to look again. The guy has owned it for the last 2 years and flies it weekly and has oil changes every 6 months. I looked at the log book but cant remember how much it has flown exactly in the last 6 months.
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If it has been flying good I'd not worry.
 
Tom-D said:
If there is that much crud in there wouldn't you like to know that?
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Good point. Otoh, don't know if I want to rush headlong into clogging oil passages.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
There's a guy over on the red board who did oil analysis every oil change for a couple thousand hours and it came back looking great right up until the lifter spalled and he found metal in the filter.
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That would be why you do both, and always expect that sooner or later you're actually going to find something... Heh. It's an engine, it won't last forever. At a couple thousand hours, he got his money's worth, right?
 
Pull a cylinder and you can get a good look at the cam and lifters. Pulling a cylinder is not a big deal.
 
Sgtmac said:
Pull a cylinder and you can get a good look at the cam and lifters. Pulling a cylinder is not a big deal.
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I never understood why it was such a big deal? It's not like they're not designed to be removed on our air cooled 1930 a tractor engines.
 
Silvaire said:
Well it would be if it's on an airplane I'm selling and you haven't actually bought it yet...
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True, I guess. Depends on if you're a stand up guy, or just trying to dump your problems on the next guy.
 
A mechanic I went to for years said that if a plane sat a lot, like this one apparently did, rust could form in the cylinders and when it started and ran the rust scored the cylinder walls causing big engine wear. He said a bore scope would show this. TRUE?
 
denverpilot said:
True, I guess. Depends on if you're a stand up guy, or just trying to dump your problems on the next guy.
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Well that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm just saying that if you are selling your airplane you aren't going to have a cylinder pulled for every tire-kicker that comes along. There would have to be an agreement in place stipulating the sale is a done deal if the inspection is good and there's no backing out or changing your mind about it. Pulling a jug for maintenance may not be that big of a deal but for no reason other than to have a look-see is a bit over the top if you ask me.
 
Pulling a cylinder from any engine that is running and has been running well is a waste of time. You are doing nothing productive and will see nothing worth while.

If that engine has a corrosion problem on rotating parts such as the cam, it will show in the trash in the sump that can be flushed out very easy.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
A mechanic I went to for years said that if a plane sat a lot, like this one apparently did, rust could form in the cylinders and when it started and ran the rust scored the cylinder walls causing big engine wear. He said a bore scope would show this. TRUE?
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NOT true. The rust IS the damage, which has already occurred.
 
:yeahthat:
Silvaire said:
Well that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm just saying that if you are selling your airplane you aren't going to have a cylinder pulled for every tire-kicker that comes along. There would have to be an agreement in place stipulating the sale is a done deal if the inspection is good and there's no backing out or changing your mind about it. Pulling a jug for maintenance may not be that big of a deal but for no reason other than to have a look-see is a bit over the top if you ask me.
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I always look in the cylinders with a borescope. I have on occasion pulled a cylinder or two to examine the lifters, cam and cranks. This is all done with the seller and buyer agreeing.

I hAve found pitted lifters and cams on several occasions and it gave the buyer information to make a decision.
 
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