Boom - Naviator has GeoReferenced Plates and Taxi Diagrams

SkyHog

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
18,431
Location
Castle Rock, CO
Display Name
Display name:
Everything Offends Me
From the Naviator Release Description for v 1.2:

123West Software said:
Naviator 1.2 is now available in the Android Market. The APK is located here.

I am personally very excited about this release. A lot of customers have been asking when geo-referenced approach plates will be available in Naviator. Well, I can finally say "now"! Beginning with this version, Naviator now supports geo-referenced approach plates and airport diagrams! This feature is made possible through our partnership with Seattle Avionics.

The geo-referencing feature is powered by Seattle Avionics' ChartData. In order to use ChartData within Naviator an additional subscription is required. ChartData subscriptions are currently priced at $75 per year and are available directly from Seattle Avionics at http://www.seattleavionics.com/naviator.

Changes in this version include:
  • Geo-referenced approach plates and airport diagrams.
  • A night mode that allows the screen to be dimmed much darker than normally allowed by the Android system. A red filter can optionally be applied to the screen to further enhance your night vision.
  • Added the ability to invert the colors of the terminal procedure charts (i.e. white becomes black, black becomes white, etc.). This makes the charts easier to read in the dark.
  • Various bug fixes.

Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Sweet! Just wasted money on WingX re-purchase..not sweet.
 
Because your Android device is not authorized for navigation, what is the use?

What benefit does this provide over sectional charts? Sectionals don't have to be scrolled. However, sectionals do need to be folded. So what, you trade folded for scrolled...it's like reinventing the wheel. Tell me what I'm missing.

"Because some approach plates are not drawn to scale they cannot be geo referenced accurately." So not even for taxi diagrams is this software reliable.

Don't answer yet: the Mk friggin 1 eyeball and a comm radio will do that. What else you got?
 
Last edited:
Android devices are authorized for navigation under Part 91. They are no different than any other handheld GPS. There is nothing wrong with using apps such as Naviator as an aid to situational awareness while flying IFR.

I suppose my choice of words in the video were not the best. Let me attempt to clear this up:

The vast majority of IAPs and airport diagrams are accurately geo-referenced. Departure procedures and STARs are not geo-referenced. If a chart could not be accurately geo-referenced the software will not display your position, and the chart will not have a blue outline. I don't quite see how this can be considered unreliable.

This is the exact same geo-referencing technology used by all the well known iPad apps. People have been using this tech for quite some time without any issues.

Oh, and regarding folding vs scrolling... Naviator will automatically scroll the charts for you ;)

Cheers,
Mike
123west Software Inc.
 
I'll stay that I've found the geo-referencing to be less than perfect in some instances of ChartFlier and Foreflight.

I would not use Geo-Referencing on an approach plate (which I think is guidance, though NOT regulatory, from the FAA) on something like Foreflight. It's just NOT as robust as either SafeTaxi or ChartView on certified displays, but is every bit as attention sucking. It's HARD to trust your HSI when it shows you on course but the computer/iPad screen shows you right or left. So I use the NACO chart viewer app as my EFB (no geo referencing) if I'm not in a G1000 airplane with charts on board.
 
Richard said:
Because your Android device is not authorized for navigation, what is the use?
Click to expand...

In what way is an Android device not authorized for navigation?

What benefit does this provide over sectional charts? Sectionals don't have to be scrolled. However, sectionals do need to be folded. So what, you trade folded for scrolled...it's like reinventing the wheel. Tell me what I'm missing.
Click to expand...

About 60 pounds of paper for one. Better situational awareness for 2, and a MUCH smaller footprint for another. Oh, and you don't have to scroll, since the sectional follows you as you move.

"Because some approach plates are not drawn to scale they cannot be geo referenced accurately." So not even for taxi diagrams is this software reliable.
Click to expand...

Again, have you seen how much paper you'd need to have AFDs for the entire United States? How about ~50 pounds less...that's ~110 pounds saved so far...

Don't answer yet: the Mk friggin 1 eyeball and a comm radio will do that. What else you got?
Click to expand...
An entire set of charts for the entire country in about 10 inches by 5 inches, versus an entire chartcase full of the entire country sitting in the back seat.
 
TMetzinger said:
It's just NOT as robust as either SafeTaxi or ChartView on certified displays, but is every bit as attention sucking. It's HARD to trust your HSI when it shows you on course but the computer/iPad screen shows you right or left.
Click to expand...
Therein lies my primary concern. Do you really need yet another device to divide your attention.

Henceforth is my reply to Mike and Nick. Mike, thank you for your comments. I share your excitement that you are able to deliver a viable product to market. I am sure the challenge has been daunting. I hope you find a profitable market for your efforts.

Nick and Mike, you both are aware of the pertinent parts of 14CFR. This software is nothing more than a potential enhancement to situational awareness. But my concerns are the same as Tim's. As a pilot, I already possess everything I need to maintain situational awareness. I certainly don't need nor desire another thing/device/instrument vying for my attention, especially if that thing is constrained to Part 91. I'm busy under IFR. Would I dare inform ATC of the discrepancy between a software and my HSI caused me to go missed?

For those who 'need' the additional information provided by this software, there is the market. Will it be updated? Will the user be provided this information? How will such information be authenticated?

Weight savings over printed charts, I concede the point. Will NACO also concede? Of course, there is always the electrical failure, whether contrived by a CFI as sim or real batt failure, etc. Paper charts/plates require no batts. To scoff would be a failure to admit real potential.
 
Last edited:
Sweet!!
Current Naviator user, but not seeing a need for the plate and taxi diagrams...yet. Still, very glad to see they're an option and to know that the good folks at Naviator are dedicated to making the app as robust as possible.
 
Richard said:
Therein lies my primary concern. Do you really need yet another device to divide your attention.

Henceforth is my reply to Mike and Nick. Mike, thank you for your comments. I share your excitement that you are able to deliver a viable product to market. I am sure the challenge has been daunting. I hope you find a profitable market for your efforts.

Nick and Mike, you both are aware of the pertinent parts of 14CFR. This software is nothing more than a potential enhancement to situational awareness. But my concerns are the same as Tim's. As a pilot, I already possess everything I need to maintain situational awareness. I certainly don't need nor desire another thing/device/instrument vying for my attention, especially if that thing is constrained to Part 91. I'm busy under IFR. Would I dare inform ATC of the discrepancy between a software and my HSI caused me to go missed?

For those who 'need' the additional information provided by this software, there is the market. Will it be updated? Will the user be provided this information? How will such information be authenticated?

Weight savings over printed charts, I concede the point. Will NACO also concede? Of course, there is always the electrical failure, whether contrived by a CFI as sim or real batt failure, etc. Paper charts/plates require no batts. To scoff would be a failure to admit real potential.
Click to expand...

The beauty of Naviator (or Foreflight, I suppose, if you're so inclined), is that you get a free backup already....

Have an Android Tablet? Buy Naviator and load it on your Android smart phone too, at no additional cost. Then, if one fails, you have the other.

But, the real benefit comes in the fact that we have developers that are making things better. ADFs are being decommed. VORs are being decommed. Everyone is going GPS, including our beloved FAA....

Would you rather spend a ****ton of money on a crappy product like anything made by Garmin, including a stupidly high monthly fee or would you rather spend $300 on a tablet, and $49.99 a year for updates, while getting a free copy to use on a device you already own?

The day's going to come where there is only one navigation technology available. When that day comes, are you really going to go back to busting out the pencil and the watch, or will you accept that GPS is not "some fancy thing you danged teenagers can't live without....with your crazy Dan Fogelberg and your Pac Man Video Games!"
 
Here's the way I see it. I actually prefer to use the charts, and will continue to buy one and and keep it in my kneeboard. However, if I am trying to be efficient by flying a straighter line, if I am desirous of things like a groundspeed check when I'm out in the middle of no-where and between waypoints, if I'm in the Cub with an open cockpit (yes, I've lost a chart that flew out the window before) or simply at a very busy airport at night with a student, it's nice to have the little extra situational awareness the geo-referenced charts can give you. If I'm familiar with the airport, the device isn't even turned on, if it's unfamiliar, it's going to be on. If I'm having to divert somewhere, it's likely invaluable.

Ryan
 
If/When the Georef'd NACO charts used in Foreflight meet the same quality levels for georeferencing that the Jepp products do, then I'll be more comfortable with the situational awareness they bring.

I've just seen them bring INCORRECT situational awareness, so I don't trust them much for use in the terminal and approach phases of flight.

Just found a good example. Using Chartflier, the GPS position on the VFR sectional chart overlay is perfect, right on the airway. Switch to the lo-enroute, and the airplane symbol is now north of the same airway.

A similar discrepancy exists on several approach plates, the airplane is shown north of the course.

Does anyone know if the various vendors are geocoding the NACO charts on their own or are they getting them from a common source?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top