Boeing's streak continues: 737 Gear Collapse

Might as well include this, too. Would be helpful to just consolidate all the random brand B in the news to just one thread.

Alaska Airlines is facing another round of safety concerns after a flight arrived at the gates at Portland International Airport with its cargo door slightly ajar.
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www.koin.com

More concerns as Alaska Airlines flight arrives at PDX gate with open cargo door

Alaska Airlines is facing another round of safety concerns after a flight arrived at the gates at Portland International Airport with its cargo door slightly ajar.
www.koin.com
 
Article sez gear collapse.
Assuming that's the case, shouldn't take the NTSB long to find the point(s) of failure. "Newish" plane? Or possible United maintainers failure?
Time will tell I 'spose.
 
tobnpr said:
Article sez gear collapse.
Assuming that's the case, shouldn't take the NTSB long to find the point(s) of failure. "Newish" plane? Or possible United maintainers failure?
Time will tell I 'spose.
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The fear may have collapsed...after the plane ran off the end of a 10,000 plus foot runway sideways into the mud. Cause or effect?
 
The Boeing 737 MAX 8, which arrived from Memphis, “rolled onto the grass when exiting onto the taxiway around 8 a.m.,” the Federal Aviation Administration said in a statement.
 
And in other news, passenger has flat tire driving home from the airport after a flight on a Boeing airplane. Sues for replacement tire. Wins $3B judgement against Boeing.
NTSB issues recommendations for tighter QC of Boeing tires.
FAA issues emergency AD to inspect all automobile tires in airport parking lots.
Pigs seen flying.
 
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Industrial espionage? Competitor (likely a proxy) pays people a lot of money to leave bolts out, and cotter keys out of lug nuts, and various other innocuous items that keep BA in the news - in a negative light. BA loses business as buyers take business to competitors. May be a dash of DEI tossed in - for plausible deniability.
 
SCCutler said:
You know this?
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I retract my statement. I know nothing more than what's publicly available. Do you have some kind of inside information or are you guessing?
 
SCCutler said:
You know this?
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dmspilot said:
I retract my statement. I know nothing more than what's publicly available. Do you have some kind of inside information or are you guessing?
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I definitely saw a very early report that said the flight rolled long and they ran off into the grass trying to make the taxiway vs. rolling straight off the end of the runway. More recent reports seem to indicate a gear failure occurred before running off. I'm assuming interviews will answer that question pretty quickly. If the gear failed prior to running into the mud, everyone would have felt that. Boeing is definitely taking a beating whether or not this was equipment or pilot error.
 
morleyz said:
If the gear failed prior to running into the mud, everyone would have felt that. Boeing is definitely taking a beating whether or not this was equipment or pilot error.
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Everything points to the gear failing when it dropped into the ditch. If it had failed on the runway, the airplane would have turned left, not right.
 
Larry in TN said:
Everything points to the gear failing when it dropped into the ditch. If it had failed on the runway, the airplane would have turned left, not right.
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I suppose the pilot could have massively over corrected in a panic, which could explain the right turn, but everything "looks" like pilot rolled off the pavement to me. Just an opinion though.
 
morleyz said:
I suppose the pilot could have massively over corrected in a panic, which could explain the right turn, but everything "looks" like pilot rolled off the pavement to me. Just an opinion though.
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When a main gear collapses, the airplane will turn in the direction of the failed gear. There is nothing that the pilots can do about it. Nosewheel steering authority is insufficient to counter that, especially in wet conditions like they had at the time of the incident.

A bigger clue might be the wet conditions and exiting the runway where the threshold marking stripes are located. Wet painted runway has a very low coefficient of friction. Nosewheel skidding, in that situation, is common.
 
I have a hard time believing that the pilots simply ran out of runway and had to scramble to make the last turnoff. It's 10,000 feet. Brake problem, reversers MEL'd, I don't know. Then again, stranger things have happened, like AF447.
 
Long runway has an increased chance. Gotta go to end anyway… ride the brakes ALL the way down there, trying to be smooth and take your time about it…

When ya get there, slow but not stopped, they’ve now had a chance to heat up… got nothing when ya need it to final slow for the turn.

Who knows.
 
Half Fast said:
Has it been determined that's what happened? Or is it another instance of stuck rudder pedals after landing, like happened a month ago?
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Look at the pictures of the skid marks and listen to the ATC audio. Even if the rudder pedals were stuck you can use the tiller or simply brake to a stop before the end of the runway as is customary.
ATC: Cleared to exit at the end of the runway, speed permitting!
 
Tools said:
Long runway has an increased chance. Gotta go to end anyway… ride the brakes ALL the way down there, trying to be smooth and take your time about it…

When ya get there, slow but not stopped, they’ve now had a chance to heat up… got nothing when ya need it to final slow for the turn.

Who knows.
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The brakes on transport category aircraft are designed to be fully functional on a high speed abort where the speed of the aircraft and gross weight are significantly higher than any landing. Since brake energy goes up with the square of speed and weight what you post should never be an issue. Also from the pics you can clearly see the brakes were working fine.
 
The manuals of all 7 transport category jets (including the 767-200/300/ER) I’ve flown say to front load brake application so they don’t heat saturate and fade further down the runway.

I’ve also seen this personally… it’s s pretty good “so there I was story…”, ha!
 
Tools said:
The manuals of all 7 transport category jets (including the 767-200/300/ER) I’ve flown say to front load brake application so they don’t heat saturate and fade further down the runway.

I’ve also seen this personally… it’s s pretty good “so there I was story…”, ha!
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Interesting, the recommended technique I was taught on every aircraft was use reverse thrust at high speed where it is most effective with braking at lower speeds to reduce long term brake wear. Regardless a normal landing on a 10,000 foot runway should not stress the brakes in the least on a 737.
With modern carbon brakes they recommend one smooth application to prolong brake life.
 
Agreed. The brakes on these things are indeed AMAZING. I’m just pointing out that it’s not too far fetched to find a scenario where simple poor (very poor) technique can defeat them! That’s all.

Deltas A330s don’t have brake fans. A long taxi (certain runways in Amsterdam) can heat them up enough to prevent takeoff! Gotta sit for nearly an hour…

Cirri have had systemic long taxi brake problems, to the point they burned the aircraft to the ground.

Long slow application is insidious and dangerous.
 
The crew asked about spacing (of following airplane) to be able to roll to the end. Tower approved the request, asking them to keep the speed up. Juan Brown has a good review. Blancolirio Sure sounds like a crew error by not slowing enough for the turn off onto a 90 degree taxi exit. For speed and efficiency the preceding high speed exit might have been a better choice. I wonder how much experience the crew had since the 737 is a junior fleet and there are 737 captain bids going to new hires, albeit with certain restrictions.
 
Anyone know if there is a small ditch or something there? The gear isn't designed to take huge side loads, but still seems weird if it collapsed going into the grass at 30kts max.
 
farmrjohn said:
there are 737 captain bids going to new hires, albeit with certain restrictions.
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That is misleading for those who aren't familiar with the situation.

New-hires who are awarded a Captain bid must have 1,000 hours part 121 then fly as F/O for at least 500 hours, and complete their probationary year, before starting Captain training. None of them have started Captain training yet.
 
Tools said:
Agreed. The brakes on these things are indeed AMAZING. I’m just pointing out that it’s not too far fetched to find a scenario where simple poor (very poor) technique can defeat them! That’s all.

Deltas A330s don’t have brake fans. A long taxi (certain runways in Amsterdam) can heat them up enough to prevent takeoff! Gotta sit for nearly an hour…

Cirri have had systemic long taxi brake problems, to the point they burned the aircraft to the ground.

Long slow application is insidious and dangerous.
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The situation in AMS is generally self induced. The 300 degree takeoff limit is not actually for brake performance. It is a FAA requirement dealing with the flashpoint of hydraulic fluid should a leak occur in the wheel wells. The AMS problem is induced by pilots who refuse to single engine taxi inbound or outbound for the 2 mile taxi. If you push off the gate in AMS with brake temps above 150 you won’t make it to 36L below 300 with the anti ice on period. If anti ice not needed you might make it with very careful brake use but it’s going to be close. Shut a engine down out of the gate and restart at the runway if you have a commuter flight to catch! It’s also really helpful to the outbound crew if the inbound crew kicks the auto breaks off when the nosewheel touches and uses full reverse. Do that and you can reach the gate in AMS without any brakes above 300. Leave the auto brakes on and taxi in on both engines and the brakes will be above 500 and the outbound crew is screwed if it’s a 90 minute turn unless you win the brake fan lottery and get the portable fans on.
 
Not sure whether the Boeing F/A 18 Super Hornet used by the Blue Angels is a good thing or not ... :eek:

:kidding ...
 
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