Bob's IFR Adventure (long)

R

RobertGerace

Guest
On Monday night I checked the weather for Tuesday morning and the forecast was CAVU. I had planned a trip to Addison to have my radar looked at, and then San Antonio for a business meeting, then Waco to have my landing gear looked at, and then home.

What follows here is the story.

Tuesday morning I woke up to snow on the ground, low clouds, and the local radio station reporting snow, freezing rain, and sleet near my home base of LZU.

I had to go -- it was just a matter of when. Flite Electronics at ADS was expecting me to arrive at 1pm; but I told them that due to winds I may be late.

I knew the tops were at 5,000 and there wasn't any freezing rain at LZU -- but it was snowing fairly hard. So I blasted off (solo) -- didn't pick up any ice, and was on top in short order.

The trip to ADS was uneventful, except that gee whiz to they go in for the old-fashioned VOR way of flying. I got told to intercept and fly more airways then I get in a year of flying East of the Mississippi. When it was over I felt like I'd earned an IPC. :)

There was some convective activity between ADS and SAT, and I flew through some scarry looking clouds (with no radar). However, my stormscope showed nothing and my WSI on-board weather was showing level 1's.

I got a clearance I haven't had in a while, "depart Chris at xxx" where they wanted me to fly an arrival and then depart one of the fixes in it on a heading.

Wednesday morning -- must go -- a trip to Waco long scheduled and a very important meeting Thursday (today) morning in Charlotte. Low clouds covering south central Texas. I took off and never saw the sun. I spent about 10 minutes between layers...but for the rest of the trip (which took forever because I had to get vectored around W) I was solid IMC. I got a late and high turn onto the ILS for ACT, and that meant a quick descent to catch the glideslope -- which resulted in a speed increase. The approach controller wanted me to slow down to keep his 3 mile spacing intact, and apologized for the bum steer. Like magic, I broke out at about 700 AGL with the runway exactly where it should be. That's what it's all about.

More clouds on the way to Birmingham for fuel, and they were getting higher as I flew East. I ended up spending hours in the clouds...most above freezing until I got further north/east. Then I broke out. On top at 9,000 I started to skim in -1c and reported to the controller that I was in and out of the tops at -1c with negative icing.

Sure enough, as soon as I did I started picking up light rime. I asked for and got 11,000 that worked out well for a little while.
In the tops again, -4c, moderate rime (and now at night) -- don't you love icing up at night? I had my 02 canula ready and though about going to 13, but the boots and prop-deicer were working well and I was getting close to BHM. I asked for 9...no better...then 7....-1c...with light...rather than moderate...then it started raining. My WSI wasn't showing any rain...but the rain must have been warm because it melted the ice on the windshield and the temp came up to +1c.

After refueling at BHM, and launched for CLT -- as it turned out I had to go there for a meeting this morning. WSI was showing sleet and snow right through my route, but it was a small enough area that I could have gone around it...and I knew I could turn around and come back 'here' to get out of it. So, I decided to press on and see what it was like. I got there and there was nothing. I guess that it was higher than me??

By now, almost 20 flying hours later, I'm relaxed in my new-to-me-airplane. I'm kicked back, autopilot on, in the clear, looking at all the pretty lights. BAM! BAM! BAM! Indicated airspeed was 170 -- well about Va -- and I felt like I hit a Mack truck! Moderate turbulence...in clear air!

What to do? Haul back on the throttles and 'shock cool' my turbos!??? Tear the airplane apart to save the turbos? I opted for the lesser of the two. I hauled the throttles back.

My airplane wants to go fast. Even at 22" of MP clean, I'm screaming. At 17" the engines run rough...never comforting in the air. So I pull back to 18" and wait.

Many agonizing bumps later, I'm below Va. I make the required report to ATC and he asks me if I want lower. I knew it wouldn't help. I've flown this turbulence in this area many times. As the wind comes out of the North over the mountains it can get really rough.

Never the less I descend. But, I can't descend more than 200 feet per minute without going faster -- and then higher than Va.

Charlotte approach tries to put me on 5 but I ask for 36R because it's easier to get to Wilson (by the way...Signature is gone!...now it's Wilson). Watch your wallet...a night in the hangar there cost me $100!

As I closed my eyes for sleep, I felt like I was back in that air...you know the way that you feel when you've been on a boat all day? Same feeling.

Today at lunch time, I take off and I'm back in the same rough air. I flew the entire trip at 20" to stay below Va.

My airplane and I are resting now.
 
Yup. And that's the way it is when the tops are layered to 22,000.

My favorite maneuver in the 310 (my time is in a Q model with ferry tanks) is pretty good right rudder, left aileron, nose up, decay to 150 indicated, one notch of flaps, nose further up and get the indicated to below 140. But clean, the bird will be well above Vman....

Who says the a/c doesn't know what's under it? Why there's mountains between Birmingham and Charlotte!

As as for the $100 hangar....the airfares alone on that trip, done commercial would blowaway about 10% of that initial maintenence burst, this trip alone. Plus, it would have taken a few more days.... :)

Chicago again this weekend for me. Icy, icy, icy. Boy am I ready for winter to get gone.
 
RobertGerace said:
My airplane and I are resting now.
Bob~
What a great post! It is wonderful to read of your ability to use your 310 for the purposes you intended it... to say nothing of the money and trevails along the way to reaching your present comfort level.

Keep the good experiences coming! :)
 
Hope you don't mind my breaking in now and then with very elementary questions. I like to read the instrument flight stories, but am not yet fluent in the language.

What's IPC, WSI, and BHM? (couldn't find them in the glossaries of my reference books). Thanks!

Toby
 
Toby said:
Hope you don't mind my breaking in now and then with very elementary questions. I like to read the instrument flight stories, but am not yet fluent in the language.
What's IPC, WSI, and BHM? (couldn't find them in the glossaries of my reference books). Thanks!
Toby

It was a good story. Good to see Bob is getting some utility out of his hard-won airplane.
IPC instrument proficiency check... an "ifr flight test", so to speak.
WSI his onboard weather display http://www.wsi.com/solutions/aviation/inflight/default.asp
BHM Birmingham Al?
 
Thanks guys! And Dave you're correct...I was referring to Birmingham.
 
Bob:

They always seem to give you that "Depart CRISS at ..." instruction on the Marcs7, always seems to me to be 260, IIRC. I flew AUS-SAT on Wednesday afternoon, such a short hop (and they gave me 6000 instead of 4000 I asked for) that the whole trip was departure and climb and vectors for the approach. No time to "enjoy."

I doubt that you were being vectored for P49 (Bush Ranch), though, since the core tops out at 5000, and even when it is expanded, they'll still routinely take IFR traffic and VFR on flight plans, squawking and talking, through the TFR space (though not through the P-space, which goes up to 18,000 when active). It is true, though, that V358 between LZZ (Lampasas) and ACT (Waco) was dog-legged around it... it's just that you always get vectored all over creation when you're arriving ADS from the south, what with some .. uhhh...busy stuff between "here and there."

**Ooops, just re-read you original, your destination was KACT, so yeah, P49 is a big ol' hickie in the airspace.**

I get to live that dream today, flying back home from SAT to ADS, but should be fairly low-drama.

Thanks for the newsy post. I always learn from those.
 
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Great story, Bob. Thanks for posting.
 
SCCutler said:
Bob:

They always seem to give you that "Depart CRISS at ..." instruction on the Marcs7, always seems to me to be 260, IIRC.

Yeah, me too... sets you up on a vectored "downwind" to runway 12R. They give you a vectored turn to base/final from that heading.

Troy
 
Thanks everyone.

Yeah; the flight from ADS to SAT was entirely a DP. Between Mississippi and Texas I was on an airway to avoid a MOA. From SAT to ACT I was being kept away from George.

However, in Mississippi, it was pretty cool. (I left that out of my original post.) I had stopped at GLH for fuel -- btw, don't stop there if you value your gear. Their runway sucks.

But it is so far out in the country that IFR is easy!

There was a Baron in front of me, and he got his C, A, F, T...but no R. So on his read back he says, "What's my initial route?" And the controller says, "on course approved."

How cool is that?? I got the same clearance.

...living the dream one flight at a time...
 
Now, the mistakes:

- not making sure GLH had a decent runway

- totally unprepared for the re-route using vor's and airways over MS...a big STAND BY while I got my charts out of the back and tried to figure out what in the heck they were talking about

- *even though I knew better, darnit* leaving Addison is always by the book due to the DFW traffic...but my clearance to SAT was to intercept an airway to a VOR...to an arrival. I had no clue. I fessed up that I would need some time to 'program all this stuff in' and then started getting all the charts out (on the ground of course). At least I had sense to get it all sorted out before I took off ;)

- Took off at SAT with 1200 on my transponders, at 300 about to enter the clouds, atc says, "310RG squawk 5233 (or whatever)..." So I'm punching it in as I'm going IMC...probably would wait to punch it in if I had it to do over again, but it worked out without any deviations.

- Even though I checked the weather, it didn't sink in that the turbulence was there. I will pay more attention to pireps and forecasted turbulence in the future.

- Leaving CLT, tired,

A) Departure ATIS says: read back transponder and any questions about your clearance only! I did listen to ATIS but I didn't listen to that. The controller says: cleared...see ya! I read back the whole thing. Silence. I got the point and could feel his eyes rolling; went back and listened...ooops.

B) I got to the end of 36L and didn't switch over to tower. 5 minutes later (not unusal there) ground calls and says, "If you want to depart anytime today you'll need to switch over to tower." :)

That about sums it up. I'm still waiting for the flight where I do everything perfectly. Sigh.
 
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Nice post, Bob. Also a great advertisement for light KI twins. I have one whole hour in a 310, and I loved it.
 
wangmyers said:
Nice post, Bob. Also a great advertisement for light KI twins. I have one whole hour in a 310, and I loved it.

Ben, thanks. You're right about that!

As I was in the completely dark, solid IMC, iced up airplane I was thinking, NO WAY WOULD I DO THIS IN A NON-KI SINGLE!
 
RobertGerace said:
On Monday night I checked the weather for Tuesday morning and the forecast was CAVU. I had planned a trip to Addison to have my radar looked at, and then San Antonio for a business meeting, then Waco to have my landing gear looked at, and then home.


What follows here is the story.
My airplane and I are resting now.


Hey, Bob, great story. I can relate... I live in San Antonio & fly out of Stinson Field. If you make your way back down here again and have time, please let me know & I'll spring for a meal.

A couple of comments 'cause I fly those routes, too.

1) The "airways" clearance may have been due to radar outages. I've found that Texarkana area Center radar is "out" almost as much as it's "up" in the last year. May be my perception, but of 7 or 8 trips, it was down 3-4 times. If radar is down, you get airways. If not, very good chance of direct clearances.

2) ADS to SAT is usually RV to Waco, then Centex-VOR and Marcs7 Arrival. You won't usually get direct Centex because of departures off of Austin. But you can ask.... About half the time I get a departure out of Regional Approach, the other half it's just radar vectors. If you're going downtown Dallas, Redbird is a nice option.

3) P-49 is a PITA.

4) I've found GLH to be OK. Did you take 36L or 36R. Last time I was through there, 36R was in good shape. THe other runways and the taxiways are kinda rough. Even though it's in the middle of nowhere, there is (or was) airline service. Nice folks at the FBO there. And you're correct, the clearance out of there is usually "on course" or "direct". I've needed to be above about 2000 ft to talk to center.

5) You're right about the turbulance over the mountains. Even in clear air, be prepared. Roughest flight I ever had was in clear air between ABQ and INW. Not exactly mountains right there, but close enough to them to make it rough.

6) Charlotte's favorite trick with me was "be ready for an immediate intersection takeoff on 18L. If you're not, you can expect to leave after the 12 other aircraft in line at the end and some arrivals, estimated wait 30 minutes." Yes, sir, I do a checklist and runup while taxiing - and trust the brakes. Right turn out before the end of the runway passes below the plane.

7) Unless it's late at night, you WILL get an arrival and departure out of San Antonio. There is enough military training traffic down here that Approach is busy. CRISS intersection is standard for vectors to final on MARCS7. If you go to Stinson, there is usually a direct clearance to the SSF VOR right after MARCS.
 
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Oh, and one more thing, Bob, fuel is a bunch cheaper at Stinson.... $2.65/gal.
 
wsuffa said:
1) The "airways" clearance may have been due to radar outages. I've found that Texarkana area Center radar is "out" almost as much as it's "up" in the last year. May be my perception, but of 7 or 8 trips, it was down 3-4 times. If radar is down, you get airways. If not, very good chance of direct clearances.

I don't think so. Usually in non radar they tell me to 'report' different fixes. Thank God they don't expect me to have an enroute looking for triangles filled in or not. (ah...hem...Although, now, I will always have a chart on my lap.)


wsuffa said:
3) P-49 is a PITA.

Indeed it is. But I can take one in the wallet for W.

wsuffa said:
4) I've found GLH to be OK. Did you take 36L or 36R. Last time I was through there, 36R was in good shape. THe other runways and the taxiways are kinda rough. Even though it's in the middle of nowhere, there is (or was) airline service. Nice folks at the FBO there. And you're correct, the clearance out of there is usually "on course" or "direct". I've needed to be above about 2000 ft to talk to center.

36R was closed. 36L was my only option, and it was like landing on a 100 year old cobblestone road. There was a lear doing tng's (bad crosswind...so good training). I couldn't believe it. Not in my jet.

AWESOME resturant!

There still is airline service. Two TSA guards upstairs (nobody manning the xray machines). Later they were watching TV. I remember thinking...we still have a long way to go and I'm glad I'm out of that system for the most part.

wsuffa said:
5) You're right about the turbulance over the mountains. Even in clear air, be prepared. Roughest flight I ever had was in clear air between ABQ and INW. Not exactly mountains right there, but close enough to them to make it rough.

Yeah. Doing that much flying I began to feel like it was my job. I started thinking that if I was forced to fly any type of weather -- every day -- whether I like it or not -- to be beaten up by turbulence, or all iced up at night -- every night...I don't think I would like flying as much.

I don't mind light chop; but this was the stuff that makes you sore from getting thrown around in the airplane. 2 hours of that and I was happy to be away from airplanes for a while.

wsuffa said:
6) Charlotte's favorite trick with me was "be ready for an immediate intersection takeoff on 18L. If you're not, you can expect to leave after the 12 other aircraft in line at the end and some arrivals, estimated wait 30 minutes." Yes, sir, I do a checklist and runup while taxiing - and trust the brakes. Right turn out before the end of the runway passes below the plane.
I find the CLT ground and tower controllers some of the rudest in the industry. I fly into most of the big airports and always try to be very quick, and professional about everything I do. While none of them love GA most of them are nice and tolerate us. CLT seems to be an exception.

As a new instrument pilot I once flew in there and when departing they gave me the hugo-six and no initial altitude. I asked what my altitude was and you would think I just insulted his mother. I will say this, I now understand departure procedures for big airports.

wsuffa said:
7) Unless it's late at night, you WILL get an arrival and departure out of San Antonio. There is enough military training traffic down here that Approach is busy. CRISS intersection is standard for vectors to final on MARCS7. If you go to Stinson, there is usually a direct clearance to the SSF VOR right after MARCS.

Yeah; and for Addison I got the fingr.fingr3 arrival. DFW was very busy and I guess they just wanted to put me in a safe spot. In contrast to the tower controllers at big airports, the approach controllers all seem to be very nice to GA airplanes. DFW was no exception.
 
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Your 'rest of the story' was at least as interesting as the first post... and more for us to learn from too.

There was a really neat thread at flightinfo.com called "I have never......" in which pilots fessed up their faux pas' In it were a thousand little things that can make your flight... 'less than perfect'. I learned a lot of little things that could be missed or screwed up, on that thread. (and I have plenty of my own too)
 
RobertGerace said:
I don't think so. Usually in non radar they tell me to 'report' different fixes. Thank God they don't expect me to have an enroute looking for triangles filled in or not. (ah...hem...Although, now, I will always have a chart on my lap.)

Yeah; and for Addison I got the fingr.fingr3 arrival. DFW was very busy and I guess they just wanted to put me in a safe spot. In contrast to the tower controllers at big airports, the approach controllers all seem to be very nice to GA airplanes. DFW was no exception.

Hmmm, so Regional Approach gave you the Finger... :p The approach controllers in Dallas are some of the best I've run across in treatment of GA. Chicago is about the worst. In terms of Class B's, Houston is probably second best, followed by Cleveland; Cincy, Memphis, Phoenix, and St. L. all rank fairly low. The rest are somewhere in between.

As for airways & non-radar, I've come through the area you described a lot of times, and the only times I've ended up on airways are when radar is out, or where a direct clearance will put me through a hot MOA. Keep that chart handy.... there are several areas where radar is down a lot (including the area served by Barrett's Mountain - Southern KY, and the area near Texarkana).
 
Yeah. At Chicago Approach they give you a different sort of finger. Sigh. The one exception is if you're going into ORD. Then they give you 170 kts on the GS all the way down- which we can do, and then they are courteous. But, ONLY THEN.
 
wsuffa said:
...where radar is down a lot (including the area served by Barrett's Mountain ...

Why is that? the BZM area *is* down a lot!!!
 
Nice post Bob. I did wonder one thing. In the Baron, Va and Vlo are pretty close. If I need to go down and stay below Va, I would normally deploy the gear. In fact on the few times I've tangled with semi convective activity, I pulled the power back a bit, pulled the nose up enougn to reduce to Vlo and dropped the gear to get down to Va quickly and stay in the presense of a bumpy updraft or two.

Would that work in your 310?
 
Lance,

I believe it would, and I considered it. However, my thinking was that I know flaps actually *reduce* the g-load a normal category airplane can handle. I have no clue as to whether the gear poses any similar perils.

You are correct, that had I extended the gear (about Va - 10) I would have no problem at all staying in the 120-130 range -- safely below Vlo/vle.

Do you know if the gear would have any impact on the stress an airplane can take?
 
While we're "fessin'," I predicted above my nice, relaxed trip back from SAT-ADS, and had it all planned out to be IFR. Business partner flying with me, and he expressed disappointment at the fact he would not be able to see the gound features. When it came time to go, SAT's 2,700 broken was looking almost like scattered, and the briefing called for adequate ceilings all the way, so after cautioning about possible bumpiness, we launched VFR.

Soon after taking off, I became less happy with the choice, as the "visibility greater than ten" looked a lot more like five or six (if that). Then, got to about Lake Travis, ceiling's way down. Still VFR, but more like VFR for puttering around at 100 knots, not blasting along at 170 knots. It does not look better ahead, and the chart shows several towers ahead in general, and I decided it's time to go conservative.

Called FSS, filed my pop-up in seconds, changed over to Austin App and ... they could not hear me (for me, they're loud and clear). Houston Center could hear me fine, and they coordinated with App to get me the clearance, and I was able to get on through to approach as soon as I climbed through 2,200.

After all said and done, I circled around the lake for at least 20 minutes, but never felt better than when I had that clearance and was climbing through the clouds for the clear air above.

Message taken? Well, could be that I am glad I kicked out and picked up the clearance, but real bottom line is that I should have trusted the initial impulse and been IFR from the git-go.

===

And yes, DFW pilots are lucky to have some dog-gone good controllers.
 
Spike,

Great story; great decision to change to IFR. I know what you mean about pax influencing decisions. Sometimes its hard to say NO.

Thanks for sharing; it bolsters my next decision to tell them...sorry...you can look a pretty white puffy's under us...if that ever comes up!
 
SCCutler said:
Soon after taking off, I became less happy with the choice, as the "visibility greater than ten" looked a lot more like five or six (if that). Then, got to about Lake Travis, ceiling's way down. Still VFR, but more like VFR for puttering around at 100 knots, not blasting along at 170 knots. It does not look better ahead, and the chart shows several towers ahead in general, and I decided it's time to go conservative.
Spike, what were you flying that got you 170 knots? That wasn't a Deb, was it?
 
What do you guys who've had your IR for some time think about simply filing every single time you fly? Around here, you don't really have a choice if you don't want to risk some delays, and considering the weather. But in Texas, for example, I could see how it isn't as necessary.
 
I do. But that's because of the Chicago airspace mentality. I will NOT be in the veil, VFR with thousands zipping around me. No way.
 
Ben asked: "Spike, what were you flying that got you 170 knots? That wasn't a Deb, was it?"

No, Ben, it was the club's F33, which since its last new engine (with tuned exhaust) and new paint, routinely cruises in the yellow. The Deb's not far behind, though, what with having that 550 (300hp) up front! I like them both.

As for your other question, lately I find myself filing more often than not, because I like the practice, and I like the precision. In addition, when flying into major terminal areas, it's just easier than having to beg for a B clearance (or having to fly around the long way, without one). It seems to me that it helps the controllers by giving them more control over traffic. I wonder if there are any controllers lurking who could offer a comment on point?

On the other hand, if the trip is to a place of modest size and / or traffic, I am typically flying in good VMC anyway, and I just go without. Nice to be able to descend and admire at will, if the whim arises.

*** This really is a great place to read and learn. Great thread-starter, great follow-up posts, thanks all for contributing with respect and insight.
 
wangmyers said:
What do you guys who've had your IR for some time think about simply filing every single time you fly? Around here, you don't really have a choice if you don't want to risk some delays, and considering the weather. But in Texas, for example, I could see how it isn't as necessary.

I decided before I ever got my rating that I would file every trip (even 10 miles away) and have done so. I take it a step further and won't 'air file' or 'pick up my clearance' once airborne under 99% of circumstances.

I tend to conduct myself under self-imposed 135 rules as much as possible (99%) -- of course, there is a lot of 135 that is not practical and/or doesn't apply...but I take what I can from it and I stick to it.

A lot of people may say that is silly or that it denies me much of the freedom of private flight, but I'm a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy.
 
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SCCutler said:
On the other hand, if the trip is to a place of modest size and / or traffic, I am typically flying in good VMC anyway, and I just go without. Nice to be able to descend and admire at will, if the whim arises.

I do miss the freedom. Also, the 'descend at will' leads me to start another thread titled, "Airport in sight, yeah, right"
 
I normally file IFR on trips of any meaningful duration. Can always cancel IFR. It's more difficult to do what Spike did and get the IFR when you need it. I've had several instances where it was difficult to get in the system when weather was poor and it was busy.

IFR is more structured and there are times they put you in the clouds when you don't need to be. OTOH, if anything happens, someone knows where I am and what's going on. I'm still spooked by there pop up TFRs and IFR provides a better way to stay informed on these cross country flights.

Still go VFR on short hops and pleasure flight where I know the airspace, but I lean to IF&R

Best,

Dave S
 
wangmyers said:
What do you guys who've had your IR for some time think about simply filing every single time you fly? Around here, you don't really have a choice if you don't want to risk some delays, and considering the weather. But in Texas, for example, I could see how it isn't as necessary.

Ben, I always file on trips, and usually even short trips unless I'm going to the practice area or putzing around the pattern. Too much chance for not getting the clearance in the air....
 
Really a great read, Bob. Thanks for posting that along with the rest of the
story so to speak. We all know none of our flights are perfect, and is always
a learning experience to read of fellow pilots experiences.

Don
 
Bob, great read. As someone in the early stages of IFR training (As in, chapter 2 and second training CD :mad: ) that type of story gets you fired up to push through. I look forward to becoming more proficient and getting to play with the IFR crowd.

On another note, I swear I have seen your 310 at LZU. I'll check the numbers next time I see one rolling by. Do you keep her on the Piedmont or Control tower side of the field?
 
glpilot said:
On another note, I swear I have seen your 310 at LZU. I'll check the numbers next time I see one rolling by. Do you keep her on the Piedmont or Control tower side of the field?

Thanks. The rating is absolutely worth it!

My airplane (when home) is usually in one of three places: Air Harbor, AirMec, or Piedmont. It is only at Piedmont if waiting to get in at AirMec -- otherwise at AirHarbor.

Oh yeah...on the runway as much as possible. ;)
 
wangmyers said:
What do you guys who've had your IR for some time think about simply filing every single time you fly? Around here, you don't really have a choice if you don't want to risk some delays, and considering the weather. But in Texas, for example, I could see how it isn't as necessary.

If I'm going over 50 nm I'll file. I usually get direct and I don't have to ask if the MOA's are hot or if TFR's have popped up. Plus, it helps pass the time :).
 
Ah. Keeping the Enroute on the lap and the VOR tuned in this GPS age is Instrument Flight 201, a graduate level seminar

General Aviation Academy
I.F. 201: "Survival without electricity, instrument, at night". Professor: Dewey Experience. When it goes dark, you need to know where to go. And occasionally it will go dark. As in Total Electrical Failure.

Enrollment limited.

:-0
 
Alan said:
If I'm going over 50 nm I'll file. I usually get direct and I don't have to ask if the MOA's are hot or if TFR's have popped up. Plus, it helps pass the time :).

Thanks, Alan. Nice airplane, BTW. Is that a C421?
 
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