BFR = things you THOUGHT you knew how to do...

CJones

Final Approach
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Just got back from flying with Tony to get my BFR current and up-to-date. We went out in the RV and did the basic maneuvers - steep turns, stalls, etc. I think I did them decently (safely at least). It was good for me to get out and do the 'boring' stuff we all do when preparing for the BFR since I never make myself take the time to do them when I have the plane simply b/c when I HAVE the plane, I want to GO somewhere - no time for lolly-gagging around, right!?

Well.. My sense of self with regard to aviation ability was knocked down a couple of notches during the 'landing' phase of the flight review. My patterns were horrible - not 'squared off' like they should and USED to be. My approach speeds were screwed up - pulling too hard when turning to base instead of allowing a descent like I SHOULD be and USED to do on base. But possibly the worst experience was peforming a simulated engine failure to landing. Honestly, I've never made myself practice this maneuver in the RV - get in the plane and go somewhere rather than 'practice' anything. So.. We pull power at midfield downwind. Trim the plane out for ~80kts. I wait too long to turn base for the rwy, so I try to streeeeeetttcccchhh the glide to the runway on a HORRIBLE final approach (b/c I used up to much altitude on my base). About 10-12' above the runway, the wing says "I'm tired of flying" and KA-WHAM down we go. Those steel gear legs did their 'do' and put us back up in the air ~10' again. Full power, forward prop, and away we go. I didn't really get 'scared' b/c I didn't have time to get scared - reaction set in: Power, prop, CONTROL THE PLANE. But, after departing the dent we left in the runway, and realizing that we still had a functional airplane I became - and still am - angry at myself. I KNOW better than to do that! 1.) There is no sense in trying to 'stretch' a SIMULATED engine failure maneuver. 2.) Why would I pull back to try and make the plane fly, when it doesn't want to!? YOU KNOW BETTER! 3.) How did I let myself get so far out of practice that I can't land a stupid airplane from a MIDFIELD DOWNWIND!!?

I used to consider myself a decent 'stick'. I wasn't a hot-shot, but I was always able to nail maneuvers right from the beginning of training. Now that I have been flying for a few years, I've let myself get slack in keeping the BASIC skills even as CLOSE to sharp as they should be. Well, thanks to the good Lord upstairs, I have lived another day (despite all my attempts to prevent such from happening) to live and LEARN! Tomorrow I start the IR training with Tony (if he still has the courage to get in the plane with me after today's fiasco). From now on, nothing is going to be "good ENOUGH".. I know I won't nail every single maneuver every single time, but at least I will keep myself within 'limits' - and after today, my 'limits' have made themselves much more narrow.

Thanks for allowing me to rant.. Just needed to throw my internal frustrations out for the world to hear. :)

-Chris
 
The best part about performing Chris's Flight Review was I didnt have to analyze his mistakes. He did a good job of doing that himself. This landing was cause for much discussion in the ground portion of the review and will be something we will be working on through his further training with me. This is why we have Flight Reviews, and why we do this out of the ordinary stuff during them. Chris's recognition and recover from the bounced landing was stellar and left me no doubt that he really is a 'good stick' that just has a few rusty spots.

And no, Im not scared, Im excited to fly the RV more!
 
Yeah Chris. Tony sent a few of us a PM about the experience. Wow can't belive he his actually willing to give you the IR training after that PM he sent out. Whew:rofl:

Breath in Breath out. If you were perfect life just wouldn't be any fun
 
A question regarding "engine outs" if I may.

As a student pilot I have been practicing these things a LOT, especially since we know the normal DE around here loves them.

I guess it is too judge capabilites, but why is it assumed that there always IS a "good" place to land during an emergency out? I mean I hear of guys pink-slipped because they did not make a safe enough simulated engine-out landing...well duh, sometimes the engine will quit and the BEST you can hope for is a controlled glide into the treetops.

I read one the FAA books and in it even they stated that too many pilots are not trained properly on other then field/road/airport emergency engine outs....and I think it is because of the PTS standards.

Any thoughts?

BTW Chris, thanks for sharing! It certainly reinforces the notion of just going out and doing some "training" flights every so often.
 
Tom you make a good point. Often there is not much choice, especially when low altitude over unpleasant terrain. Which is a good reason not to fly low over unpleasant terrain. Usually in a checkride situation there is always a "good" spot to land because the examiner set it up that way. Its part of his test to see if you look around and evaluate the entire situation. you are probably right about lack of training in how to safely put it in the trees/water.
 
I think 'one' of the problems I encountered in the previously mentioned scenario was the fact that I wasn't willing to settle for a short landing b/c I was 'supposed' to make it to the runway. If it had been a 'true' engine out, I would have put it down in the grass and would have been happy to make it that far. Due to my mental attitude toward the exercise, I think I was more focused on making a landing on the runway instead of a 'controlled' landing somewhere other than the runway.

Retrospect is awesome..... when you have the opportunity to use it.

-Chris
 
Chris, I have a small question--was your prop full-in on final? There are two reasons for this question: 1) If you ever are truly in this situation, sometimes pulling the prop full OUT stretches the glide, even with the same best glide speed. 2) It might be best to ensure your prop is full IN (or close to it) before adding power in a recovery or normal go-around.
 
spiderweb said:
Chris, I have a small question--was your prop full-in on final? There are two reasons for this question: 1) If you ever are truly in this situation, sometimes pulling the prop full OUT stretches the glide, even with the same best glide speed. 2) It might be best to ensure your prop is full IN (or close to it) before adding power in a recovery or normal go-around.


Prop was full 'out'. On very short 'final' (if you can call it that), a "go around" thought crossed my mind, but it was so borderline that I thought "If I push the prop 'in' now, I will kill what little bit of glide I have left and will definitely flop it, if I leave it as it is, I can MAYBE make it to the runway". Hindsight speaking here: If the 'go around' thought ENTERS your mind, LISTEN TO IT! When I actually DID flop it, I pushed throttle in, then thought "Oh yeah, PROP!". Even with the prop full 'out', I still had enough thrust to keep from hitting the ground the second time. And the total time from 'throttle full' to "Oh yeah, PROP!" to 'prop in' to 'we are out of the stall and gaining ground' was MAYBE 1/2 a second. If I had taken the time to transition to a go-around when I had the chance earlier, I would have been able to prepare for the 'air brake' that the 3-blade prop becomes and still have time to recover with power.

I'm glad people are asking questions on this topic -- it allows me to view different aspects of the situation more in-depth.

-Chris
 
tonycondon said:
Usually in a checkride situation there is always a "good" spot to land because the examiner set it up that way. Its part of his test to see if you look around and evaluate the entire situation.

And remember that he may have set it up so the best option is behind you, just to make sure you are ALWAYS paying attention to your options and not waiting until the poop hits the prop to start looking.

you are probably right about lack of training in how to safely put it in the trees/water.

Water? Slow 'er down as if for a short-field landing, plop it in as slow as possible when you can't hold it out any more. And make sure the window is open and doors cracked before splashdown. I've heard varying opinions as to the value of leaving the gear up in a retract, but I'd leave it up simply to avoid a pitch-down moment and the associated chance of ending up inverted when the gear hits the water. Plenty have ditched fixed-gear planes quite successfully so maybe this doesn't matter much.

A line of trees? Put it in between a pair and rip the wings off to absorb impact energy. Make sure your doors are open first. Also be aware that if you have a wet wing, fire is quite likely so be ready to get out NOW.

A whole darn forest, like the area around 6Y9? I'm not sure there is a safe way to do that. I'd sure love to hear some ideas. Something tells me Henning's got some. :goofy:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
A whole darn forest, like the area around 6Y9? I'm not sure there is a safe way to do that. I'd sure love to hear some ideas. Something tells me Henning's got some. :goofy:

From what I read from the FAA, you are supposed to "land" on the treetops, though one should not attempt a "stall and drop" manuever as that may allow a tree to pierce the aircraft striaght up.
 
Join the club on learning a lot on BFRs. There is a reason they are required. I know several people, myself included, that have been caught with their pants down on some basic maneuvers.

If you're going to pull a mulligan, during a BFR is the best time, when you have someone beside you to help you learn from it.
 
Gerhardt said:
I know several people, myself included, that have been caught with their pants down on some basic maneuvers.
If you mean you were surprised at how badly you did them, that's not a bad thing -- as you said, that's why we do flight reviews. If you mean you were surprised at what you were asked to do, that suggests you and your instructor didn't follow the guidance in AC-98A and discuss beforehand what would be covered on the flight.
 
this is the same way i feel..when i get the plane i wanna GO somewhere..just like you said...i never just take the plane myself and just practice maneuvers anymore....

Ant
 
SupraPilot said:
i never just take the plane myself and just practice maneuvers anymore....
Try it. You'll be surprised how much fun you'll have. You can also challenge yourself on a cross country too.

When I flew to Michigan earlier this month I did one entire leg (about 200 nm) rolling 45 degrees one direction followed by rolling back 45 degrees the other direction over. and over. and over. I was alone and didn't have to worry about making someone sick plus it really helped me work on my rudder coordination.

If I fly XC somewhere I like to fly around for a hour or so at the destination to get a view of the area from the air. This is a great time to practice as you are just buzzing around for fun.

Experience will only add to skill if you let it. A lot of pilots work on the basis until they hit 60 hours or so and get their private license. Guess what? It won't matter how many hours they get they will never get any better at stick and rudder unless they try. Infact they'll be worse. You have a lot of 60 hour students that could out fly many thousand hour pilots. Personally I think there is a lot that one can learn in the thousands of hours after getting your private. Might as well explore it?

Remember though it doesn't matter how good of a stick you are with ****ty judgement you'll still be the first one to die.
 
jangell said:
When I flew to Michigan earlier this month I did one entire leg (about 200 nm) rolling 45 degrees one direction followed by rolling back 45 degrees the other direction over. and over. and over.

Are you trying to bulk up or what?:)
 
Yea jesse was doing that on the way to Gastons too. He claimed it was for "proficiency" but I think its actually because he cant hold a heading. Nice try buddy. :) :) :)
 
tonycondon said:
Yea jesse was doing that on the way to Gastons too. He claimed it was for "proficiency" but I think its actually because he cant hold a heading. Nice try buddy. :) :) :)
hahaha...You have me all figured out :D
 
well XC's are something that i am good at..i like to fly to different places so i have alot of XC time...i guess i try and combine pratice with travel like you do with the banking back and forth for the whole leg:D

Ant
 
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