BFR Scheduled

Michael

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Feb 27, 2005
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CapeCodMichael
Its that time. I scheduled my BFR for a week from Sturday. If i recall, that will include 1 hour of ground and then airwork. What is the minimum required for the airwork, I am thinking, i really dont care to stress the mooney all that much doing stalls and pulling power quickly. Are they absoultly required?
 
The BFR is not a checkride, therefore none of the manuevering is madatory although you should expect to demonstrate your skill at handling the a/c in all phases and attitudes of flight. I would think some face time with the CFI a couple days before the BFR would allow you to write out a flightprofile which would satisfy your concerns as owner and the CFI's concerns for the objective of the review.

As Dave S--or was it Lance Fisher?--has mentioned previously sometimes the CFI needs to be educated to the owner's point of view. If that describes your CFI I would definately suggest you talk it over before the day of the review.
 
Michael said:
Its that time. I scheduled my BFR for a week from Sturday. If i recall, that will include 1 hour of ground and then airwork.
Actually, it's a minimum of 1 hour of ground (and also a minimum of 1 hour of flight training). The actual length of time it takes to complete a flight is dependent on a lot of factors, including pilot proficiency and the nature of the flying the pilot does, and can take a lot longer than 2 hours total to accomplish.
What is the minimum required for the airwork, I am thinking, i really dont care to stress the mooney all that much doing stalls and pulling power quickly. Are they absoultly required?
If you've scheduled a flight review, the instructor should have discussed with you the sort of flying you do and the type of plane you fly so he can structure an appropriate flight review. See AC 61-98A for more detail on how a flight review should be conducted, including pre-review planning.
 
I've yet to have to do a BFR myself, but my Instrument instructor would find out what you didn't want to do, and test ya. Might sound a little harsh, but probably not a bad idea. This particular subject said he 'doesn't' and has never stalled his brand new A36. It was then noted that if he wanted his sign off, that the airplane was to be stalled.

Moral... Be diplomatic in the way that you talk to your DE.
 
Michael said:
Its that time. I scheduled my BFR for a week from Sturday. If i recall, that will include 1 hour of ground and then airwork. What is the minimum required for the airwork, I am thinking, i really dont care to stress the mooney all that much doing stalls and pulling power quickly. Are they absoultly required?

How much do stalls really stress an airframe? I don't know that I'd want to fly on an airplane that the owner wasn't comfortable stalling.

Michael, which Mooney do you have? Is it turbo'd?

Curious,
 
flyingcheesehead said:
How much do stalls really stress an airframe? I don't know that I'd want to fly on an airplane that the owner wasn't comfortable stalling.

Michael, which Mooney do you have? Is it turbo'd?

Curious,

No kent its not turbod. Its a 62 C model. I just like to baby it when i fly it. i pull power gradually, and because i am paying for overhauls now, id rather not do things that put any kind of stress on the engine.
 
Michael said:
No kent its not turbod. Its a 62 C model. I just like to baby it when i fly it. i pull power gradually, and because i am paying for overhauls now, id rather not do things that put any kind of stress on the engine.
A good alternative to that is for you to rent one of their beasts. No owner worries for you, you can concentrate more fully on the flying, and it expands your knowledge because you relearn how other birds fly.
 
Richard said:
A good alternative to that is for you to rent one of their beasts. No owner worries for you, you can concentrate more fully on the flying, and it expands your knowledge because you relearn how other birds fly.

yea, i think thats what ill end up doing richard.
Thanks everyone
 
Michael said:
No kent its not turbod. Its a 62 C model. I just like to baby it when i fly it. i pull power gradually, and because i am paying for overhauls now, id rather not do things that put any kind of stress on the engine.

Thank God for rental aircraft. Although we don't abuse the machines, we continually put them through all the PPL and Comm maneuvers and beyond, day in and day out, year after year. All with the full blessing of the owners that provide these club aircraft to us, knowing what we're going to do with them.

Theoritically I see the concerns of some owners babying a plane, but in reality can't imagine flying a capable, relatively modern aircraft in that manner as being any fun.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
How much do stalls really stress an airframe? I don't know that I'd want to fly on an airplane that the owner wasn't comfortable stalling.

Michael, which Mooney do you have? Is it turbo'd?

Curious,

Turbo'd or not, stall practice needn't be any more stressful than takeoffs and landings. IMO anyone who refuses to stall their airplane for any mechanical reason save not having enough time on a fresh engine (like less than a few hours) is either being ignorant, or hiding the fact that they are afraid of stalls.
 
Michael said:
I probably should have qualified that "ignorant" remark as meaning ignorant about what stresses an engine, and/or how to perform stalls without hurting the engine, not ignorant in general.:redface:
 
lancefisher said:
I probably should have qualified that "ignorant" remark as meaning ignorant about what stresses an engine, and/or how to perform stalls without hurting the engine, not ignorant in general.:redface:
Lance, I knew what you meant. Ignorant does not mean stupid or otherwise incapable of knowing.
 
after reading the resonses, I can only say that most must not be owners that care about their plane.
Since I have personally flown Michaels plane I know how well it is cared for. And doing stalls in 117 degree heat CAN shock cool an engine it is not a wise thing.
Please take what I say with a grain of salt, but an owner does not want a 20,000 bill for overstressing the engine on HIS plane.

Mark B.
 
Last edited:
markb5900 said:
And doing stalls in 117 degree heat CAN shock cool an engine it is not a wise thing.
No, it can't. Reducing power and slowing the plane simultaneously isn't going to cause shock cooling. If you don't believe me, check the traces on a recording engine analyzer when you do a stall series. If anything, engines tend to heat up during slow flight, especially in high ambient temperatures. So-called "shock cooling" occurs when power is reduced but speed is increased, as in a nose-diving idle descent from altitude. While throttle slams on a turbocharged engine, or powering up rapidly after prolonged low power/high speed flight in cold air temps (e.g., OEI training in a twin) can be hard on an engine, stall series do not shock-cool engines.
 
Ron Levy said:
While throttle slams on a turbocharged engine, or powering up rapidly after prolonged low power/high speed flight in cold air temps (e.g., OEI training in a twin) can be hard on an engine, stall series do not shock-cool engines.

Ron,

Thanks - That's kind of what I was wondering. I also misunderstood Michael's original message - I was thinking of "pulling power quickly" as separate from the stall question, as in engine-out drills. So, I was thinking he meant stress on the wing during a stall recovery rather than stress on the engine from pulling power.

Wish I had a Mooney!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
So, I was thinking he meant stress on the wing during a stall recovery
Unless you really botch it or do a hammerhead or whipstall (prohibited in anything in which you're likely to do primary stall training), you aren't going to put any significant stress on the airframe during stall recoveries.
 
markb5900 said:
after reading the resonses, I can only say that most must not be owners that care about their plane.
Since I have personally flown Michaels plane I know how well it is cared for. And doing stalls in 117 degree heat CAN shock cool an engine it is not a wise thing.
Please take what I say with a grain of salt, but an owner does not want a 20,000 bill for overstressing the engine on HIS plane.

Mark B.

I've owned several planes and cared about them all enough to learn all I could about what's good and bad for them. I don't mean to suggest that Michael should shorten the life of his engine to maintain his proficiency, rather that I strongly believe that he can perform stalls without harming the engine. Takeoffs and landings are far more stressful and engines cope with that just fine.
 
Ron Levy said:
Unless you really botch it or do a hammerhead or whipstall (prohibited in anything in which you're likely to do primary stall training), you aren't going to put any significant stress on the airframe during stall recoveries.

Yup... Which is why I said I wouldn't want to ride in an airplane that the owner didn't trust enough to do this!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yup... Which is why I said I wouldn't want to ride in an airplane that the owner didn't trust enough to do this!
That is more indicative of the owner than the a/c. As AirBaker said (I think it was he) a good BFR would focus on the pilot's weak spots.
 
let me recap this thread..
so far i am ignorant, afraid of stalls, incompetent to pilot my own plane, and pretty much a wuss...

I know some of you know what im talkin about without looking for the subliminal message, and i thank you for your responces.

<sorry in a bad mood>
 
Michael said:
let me recap this thread..
so far i am ignorant, afraid of stalls, incompetent to pilot my own plane, and pretty much a wuss...

I know some of you know what im talkin about without looking for the subliminal message, and i thank you for your responces.

<sorry in a bad mood>
Michael, I did not mean you specifically. In fact, from my time flying with you I am impressed with your skill. Really and truly.

What this thread has become is a--what's the word?--a reminder to all of us what our skills should be, what they are now, and how to close the gap. Said another way, you are representitive of all of us.

So how did go?
 
Michael said:
let me recap this thread..
so far i am ignorant, afraid of stalls, incompetent to pilot my own plane, and pretty much a wuss...

I know some of you know what im talkin about without looking for the subliminal message, and i thank you for your responces.

<sorry in a bad mood>

gotta add poor speller to the list too :)

I think people are coming a bit hard on Michael here. If he doesn't want to stall his plane intentionally, what is the problem? Stalls are practice for when something goes wrong, not something that is a normal maneuver that we should do every flight (aside from landing).

Whether or not it causes undue stress to his bird means nothing if he, as the owner, doesn't feel comfortable doing them in his plane. He never said he wouldn't do them, just that he didn't want to do them in his plane. Remember, he perked up when someone suggested renting.

Umm...yeah...not my problem, not my rant, just my opinion.
 
Richard said:
Michael, I did not mean you specifically. In fact, from my time flying with you I am impressed with your skill. Really and truly.

What this thread has become is a--what's the word?--a reminder to all of us what our skills should be, what they are now, and how to close the gap. Said another way, you are representitive of all of us.

So how did go?

I know Rich,
I just am just in a mood tonight and took some of the posts as a personal attack..But i should know better.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Ron,

Thanks - That's kind of what I was wondering. I also misunderstood Michael's original message - I was thinking of "pulling power quickly" as separate from the stall question, as in engine-out drills. So, I was thinking he meant stress on the wing during a stall recovery rather than stress on the engine from pulling power.

Wish I had a Mooney!

Power needn't be pulled quickly for effective engine out sims if the CFI is flying ahead of the aircraft sufficiently to allow reduction of power slowly enough for engine benefits, while still initiating the simulation far enough out from the emergency landing site to challenge its acquisition by glide path or, to provide opportunities for practicing the rare, so-called "high key" maneuvering scenario.
 
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