BFR and Instrument Currency

[spiderweb]

I did my first BFR ever yesterday, and topped it off with some approaches to maintain IFR currency. I'd been flying since 2001, but I got my cert in 2003, and and IR in 2005. That's why this was my first ever BFR. I'll provide details if anyone is interested, but I can summarize thusly--about 1.5 ground and 2.8 in the air and I "passed" and I also did three approaches. I've got some discussing to do with you guys about proficiency, though.

 

[poadeleted20]

Did you get the instructor to sign an IPC endorsement along with the flight review endorsement? Given the three approaches, it's likely you qualified for that IPC, too.

 

[tonycondon]

I've got some discussing to do with you guys about proficiency, though.

Ben,

Discuss away, I alway learn a lot from your threads, particularly about training and proficiency.

 

[spiderweb]

Did you get the instructor to sign an IPC endorsement along with the flight review endorsement? Given the three approaches, it's likely you qualified for that IPC, too.

Thanks, Ron! That's a good point. No, I didn't get the IPC endorsement, although that would have been nice. We spent all of the ground time on VFR flight review stuff, so I'm not sure they'd want to sign me off there. OTOH, I have been remaining current by always making sure I fly a few approaches each month with an instructor. I could definitely use some hard-core partial panel review--I actually enjoyed that.

 

[spiderweb]

Ben,

Discuss away, I alway learn a lot from your threads, particularly about training and proficiency.

OK, for the ground portion, the CFII used a BFR checklist to make sure he covered all areas required. I was surprised that I remembered most of the information that he quizzed me on. I needed refreshing on a few areas, though--light gun signals (probably no surprise to anyone here), what an underlining means with an NDB symbol on the chart, and a couple of special cases with VFR minimums. Other than that, I was good for the ground portion.

For the flight, we took off from FDK and headed East. Again, my CFII was very conscientious, making sure to cover everything required. Hmmm. Any highlights here? My steep turns were within PTS, but the one to the right was just barely within standards. I was never very good at the steep turns. I will practice them more on my own. Everything else was reasonably good. Oh, I got three engine-out practices. One over a field, which I handled fine. The one later on was back at FDK, and I was high. I noted that I wouldn't make it down in the first 1/3rd, but that I could still make it down safely. He called for a go-around, and I asked if I could run that by him again. This time it went well. He laughed and said I must be thinking I was in the Trinidad which drops like a rock!

My landings were OK--there was a nice crosswind to practice in. The first two were not perfectly aligned, but the last one was pretty good.

The approaches were fun. I did two GPSs and one VOR. I am getting the hang of the GPS. The actual flying of the approach is easy enough; what I have to get used to is the knob dialing! -Sigh- There were a few times during the approach where the needle was deflected two dots. Stupid. If I can hold the needle two dots to the left, I can hold the damn needle in the center! Well, I will keep practicing, and keep my personal minimums high!

 

[tonycondon]

sounds geat Ben. obviously knowlege is use it or lose it and the subjects you werent sure on during the oral are a testament to that. Those types of questions, particularly the one on the chart, are stuff I will ask after im satisfied with the knowledge level but just want to prod around a little further and see how much you know.

sounds like you did good work on your flight portion. I seem to remember that most of your currency flying is instrument stuff, so its not surprising that things like steep turns presented challenges. focusing most of your attention on the instrument flying causes your visual flying skills to deteriorate. many experienced instrument pilots have to be forced to look away from the panel. sounds like you've got a great grasp on this though.

happy flying!

 

[spiderweb]

Thanks, Tony. Haha, I never was good at steep turns. I can keep them within PTS, but they are just rough. I remember getting them ready for the exam. I was so determined, I just went out and practiced them for an hour. Haha, when I landed I felt sick to my stomach.

Yep, almost all of my flights are practice flights nowadays. Every now and again, I will actually go on a trip. -Sigh- prices are so high right now, I have to convince people it is worth it.

 

[Kaye]

Yep, almost all of my flights are practice flights nowadays. Every now and again, I will actually go on a trip. -Sigh- prices are so high right now, I have to convince people it is worth it.

Keeping the husband away from the TSA is worth the high price. He'd like me to figure out how to fly to the BVI's.....but he's not that willing to pay for my multi......

 

[NC Pilot]

Keeping the husband away from the TSA is worth the high price. He'd like me to figure out how to fly to the BVI's.....but he's not that willing to pay for my multi......

It's not that hard to do, just takes time and money. You can do it in your plane. I would carry a life raft with you though.

Barkleydog did it once in a 182 I believe - it may have only been the US Virgins, but close enough. He did have a hard time on one island though. Though he looked like a drug smuggler or something.

 

[Kaye]

It's not that hard to do, just takes time and money. You can do it in your plane. I would carry a life raft with you though.

Think I'll try the Bahamas first.....my plane already knows how to get there.

 

[spiderweb]

Keeping the husband away from the TSA is worth the high price. He'd like me to figure out how to fly to the BVI's.....but he's not that willing to pay for my multi......

I've almost got my wife convinced to let me get the multi!

 

[spiderweb]

Did you get the instructor to sign an IPC endorsement along with the flight review endorsement? Given the three approaches, it's likely you qualified for that IPC, too.

I'm just curious, what do the CFIIs out there like to cover in the IPC? Rather, how do you like to cover the required items?

 

[poadeleted20]

I'm just curious, what do the CFIIs out there like to cover in the IPC? Rather, how do you like to cover the required items?

Pretty much the way an examiner covers them in an IR practical test -- develop a plan that includes all the required items, which for single-engine are:

Holding
Unusual attitude
Intercepting/Tracking
NP Approach
Precision Approach
Missed Approach
Circle-to-Land
Landing from Approach
Approach with Primary Flight Instrument Failure
Pre-/Post-flight checks

My usual deal would be something like this:

Copy simulated IFR clearance
Pre-takeoff instrument checks on start/taxi
Departure on simulated IFR clearance
Vectors to an ILS
Missed approach to published hold
Depart hold
Primary flight instrument failure (for the rest of the flight)
Unusually attitude recovery (or two)
Own nav to full (PT or HPILPT) NP approach
Circle-to-land and full stop (nobody does a missed with a real primary flight instrument failure)
Post-flight checks

If the aircraft has an autopilot and/or GPS, an additional approach using them will be inserted after the ILS low approach and before the published missed/hold.

All squares filled in a little over an hour.

 

[KennyFlys]

Ron, are you able to fly ILS into controlled fields dealing only with just the tower or do you have to go through TRACON?

 

[spiderweb]

Thanks, Ron! Well, shoot--I did just about all of that. We just didn't have a ground portion for instruments, because we were doing ground for the BFR. The only thing we did not do, and which I am going to do next time, is PP work. I actually enjoy that, because it is a challenge. I enjoy letting the CFII pushing me just below the point of overload, as long as it is practicing and he's got his eyes outside!

Pretty much the way an examiner covers them in an IR practical test -- develop a plan that includes all the required items, which for single-engine are:

Holding
Unusual attitude
Intercepting/Tracking
NP Approach
Precision Approach
Missed Approach
Circle-to-Land
Landing from Approach
Approach with Primary Flight Instrument Failure
Pre-/Post-flight checks

My usual deal would be something like this:

Copy simulated IFR clearance
Pre-takeoff instrument checks on start/taxi
Departure on simulated IFR clearance
Vectors to an ILS
Missed approach to published hold
Depart hold
Primary flight instrument failure (for the rest of the flight)
Unusually attitude recovery (or two)
Own nav to full (PT or HPILPT) NP approach
Circle-to-land and full stop (nobody does a missed with a real primary flight instrument failure)
Post-flight checks

If the aircraft has an autopilot and/or GPS, an additional approach using them will be inserted after the ILS low approach and before the published missed/hold.

All squares filled in a little over an hour.

 

[spiderweb]

Ron, are you able to fly ILS into controlled fields dealing only with just the tower or do you have to go through TRACON?

From my experience, I've always been handed off to approach. We're talking now about Hagerstown and BWI. I should think the tower doesn't want to deal with me when I'm out of their airspace which I almost certainly would be for some of the approach and misseds.

 

[KennyFlys]

From my experience, I've always been handed off to approach. We're talking now about Hagerstown and BWI. I should think the tower doesn't want to deal with me when I'm out of their airspace which I almost certainly would be for some of the approach and misseds.

I was wondering how things were handled up there. Anywhere around Atlanta, TRACON wants to handle IFR traffic and also VFR who may be doing practice approaches. They simply want to coordinate the practice with actual approaches under IFR.

That's not a big deal at all. It's probably better for the practice by students.

 

[poadeleted20]

Ron, are you able to fly ILS into controlled fields dealing only with just the tower or do you have to go through TRACON?

Depends on the airport. At BWI, no way (it's in B-space). At MTN, you can, but MTN tower sometimes gets itchy if you aren't working with Potomac TRACON; OTOH, sometimes Potomac forgets to tell MTN TWR you're coming, and then the tower gets itchy at the pilot for Potomac's failings (pilots can't win at MTN, the grumpiest tower in the Mid-Atlantic region). At SBY, no problem -- in fact, they prefer it that way, because PXT Approach has weak radar coverage below 3000 feet around Salisbury.

 

[poadeleted20]

Thanks, Ron! Well, shoot--I did just about all of that. We just didn't have a ground portion for instruments,

There is no "ground portion" of an IPC. Areas I and II are not included in the IPC list of the Additional Rating/Task Table.

The only thing we did not do, and which I am going to do next time, is [partial panel] work.

Now that is required for an IPC (although in these days of glass panels, it's now called "Loss of Primary Flight Instrument Indicators").

 

[spiderweb]

. . . (pilots can't win at MTN, the grumpiest tower in the Mid-Atlantic region). . .

That's how I've always felt.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

My usual deal would be something like this:

Copy simulated IFR clearance
Pre-takeoff instrument checks on start/taxi
Departure on simulated IFR clearance
Vectors to an ILS
Missed approach to published hold
Depart hold
Primary flight instrument failure (for the rest of the flight)
Unusually attitude recovery (or two)
Own nav to full (PT or HPILPT) NP approach
Circle-to-land and full stop (nobody does a missed with a real primary flight instrument failure)
Post-flight checks

Without some sort of FAA legal guidance to the contrary, the above does not meet the requirements of an IPC. The PTS TASK table for an IPC calls for "ALL" for TASK VI. TASK VI(a) contains the following:

NOTE: [FONT=Arial,Arial]The applicant must accomplish at least two nonprecision approaches (one of which must include a procedure turn or, in the case of an RNAV approach, a Terminal Arrival Area (TAA) procedure) in simulated or actual weather conditions. At least one nonprecision approach must be flown without the use of autopilot and without the assistance of radar vectors.
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