Best way to get into airlines?

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shyampatel94

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Shyam Patel
Okay so I was wondering what the best way to get into the airline? Like what ratings to get next and all that? I am about to get my PPL and I am 18 years old.

I have heard people say that best way is and an expensive way. What makes this way expensive?
----------------------
PrivateSEL
PrivateMEL
Inst-MEL
CMEL
CSEL - add on

Another way is
--------------------
PrivateSEL
Inst-SEL
CSEL
CMEL - add on

What do you guys think the best route is and why? What is after these ratings?
 
Last edited:
shyampatel94 said:
Okay so I was wondering what the best way to get into the airline? Like what ratings to get next and all that? I am about to get my PPL and I am 18 years old.

I have heard people say that best way is and an expensive way. What makes this way expensive?
----------------------
PrivateSEL
PrivateMEL
Inst-MEL
CMEL
CSEL - add on

Another way is
--------------------
PrivateSEL
Inst-SEL
CSEL
CMEL - add on

What do you guys think the best route is and why? What is after these ratings?
Click to expand...

:popcorn:
 
The best way to get into an airliner is via Travelocity. :lol:

But if you want one of the front row seats:

The more traditional way:

PPL SEL
Inst SEL
Comm SEL
ME (to Comm standards with Instrument approaches)
CFI
CFI-I
MEI

Alternatively, buy a cheap twin (one was on sale here for $19K just a few weeks ago!)

PPL MEL
Inst MEL
Comm MEL
MEI

Then fly the heck out of the multi until you can get a freight-hauling gig in a twin. If you dedicate yourself to either of the above options and fly at least four or five times a week you could pull off either scenario in a year or less if you played your cards right. Do as many training flights as you can to airports more than 50 nm away to build up your x-c time for the commercial.

Once you buy the plane budget $1,000 month for fixed airplane expenses plus $120/hr for fuel plus $60/hr for instruction (being a little conservative). Plan on paying for at least 300 flight hours that first year with at least half being with an instructor.

When you're not flying, you're studying for one of the written exams, all the way to the ATP written, or studying aircraft systems manuals. Gain as much book knowledge as you can.

At some point along the way (maybe while flying freight) pick up a college degree, via a university, a community college or on-line classes....the latter being the more cost-effective way to get there. In the job market, being able to check off the box that you have the degree is the most important....what or where you studied is way down the list in priorities.
 
shyampatel94 said:
Okay so I was wondering what the best way to get into the airline? Like what ratings to get next and all that? I am about to get my PPL and I am 18 years old.

I have heard people say that best way is and an expensive way. What makes this way expensive?
----------------------
PrivateSEL
PrivateMEL
Inst-MEL
CMEL
CSEL - add on

Another way is
--------------------
PrivateSEL
Inst-SEL
CSEL
CMEL - add on

What do you guys think the best route is and why? What is after these ratings?
Click to expand...

First, decide which you would rather have as trainer; single engine or multi? The multi will cost more for sure, but airlines will want to see multi time and don't really care all that much about single engine time.

Regardless of which way you go, wait to do the add on of the other one until you have your commercial/instrument. That way you'll only need to do one checkride for the add-on.
 
LDJones said:
The best way to get into an airliner is via Travelocity. :lol:

But if you want one of the front row seats:

The more traditional way:

PPL SEL
Inst SEL
Comm SEL
ME (to Comm standards with Instrument approaches)
CFI
CFI-I
MEI

Alternatively, buy a cheap twin (one was on sale here for $19K just a few weeks ago!)

PPL MEL
Inst MEL
Comm MEL
MEI

Then fly the heck out of the multi until you can get a freight-hauling gig in a twin. If you dedicate yourself to either of the above options and fly at least four or five times a week you could pull off either scenario in a year or less if you played your cards right. Do as many training flights as you can to airports more than 50 nm away to build up your x-c time for the commercial.

Once you buy the plane budget $1,000 month for fixed airplane expenses plus $120/hr for fuel plus $60/hr for instruction (being a little conservative). Plan on paying for at least 300 flight hours that first year with at least half being with an instructor.

When you're not flying, you're studying for one of the written exams, all the way to the ATP written, or studying aircraft systems manuals. Gain as much book knowledge as you can.

At some point along the way (maybe while flying freight) pick up a college degree, via a university, a community college or on-line classes....the latter being the more cost-effective way to get there. In the job market, being able to check off the box that you have the degree is the most important....what or where you studied is way down the list in priorities.
Click to expand...

Okay so for the second option, should I get instrument before getting Multi? And can I buy a multi engine without having a multi engine certificate?
 
US Naval Academy.

Or

PP SEL
PPMEL
IR
CPMEL
CPSEL add on
MEI, CFI/A/II
ATP

Get your PP, buy a multi engine plane, fly it, do your IR in it, do your CPMEL and Instructor rating in it. Now you have 200 some hours in your twin and the insurance will be good with you giving instruction in it without charging you an extra premium. Get this done in a year or so while you attend a 4 year university with an aviation program. Do NOT enroll in the aviation program (airlines don't care what degree you have), choose another program that will give you a basis in another field should you encounter issues that take you out of the airlines. Nursing is a great career choice for travel and living all over the world. You do however want to take the aircraft maintenance program classes.

After you have your MEI you can sell multi ratings as well as multi time building blocks to the students in the aviation program for much less than the program gets for Multi time. This allows you to build your 1500hrs hrs towards your ATP as primarily multi time, and do it on someone else's dime while even collecting a bit of food money on the side.
 
shyampatel94 said:
Okay so for the second option, should I get instrument before getting Multi? And can I buy a multi engine without having a multi engine certificate?
Click to expand...

You can buy anything you wish at any time as long as you can find the money.
 
shyampatel94 said:
Okay so for the second option, should I get instrument before getting Multi? And can I buy a multi engine without having a multi engine certificate?
Click to expand...

You live in America....you can buy anything you want! :D

In the second option you'd be getting everything in the multi, from your private training on up through the multi-CFI. All your time would be multi. At some point down the road you could do a commercial ride in a single with an approach to be rated in both singles and multi. But the valuable time you want is the multi time, hence starting in a twin and staying there for everything.

But don't expect to solo in 8 hours going this route! You may be at 30-50 hours before your first solo since you have all the basics to cover plus the multi. The number doesn't matter....it's all valuable time to get you where you want to go.
 
shyampatel94 said:
Okay so for the second option, should I get instrument before getting Multi? And can I buy a multi engine without having a multi engine certificate?
Click to expand...

Yes, I bought my first plane, a twin, with 60 hrs TT, no IR or multi certificate and did my training and checkride in that plane. The checkride in the plane was a stipulation of the insurance company to give me an incredibly good rate.
 
Henning said:
US Naval Academy.

Or

PP SEL
PPMEL
IR
CPMEL
CPSEL add on
MEI, CFI/A/II
ATP

Get your PP, buy a multi engine plane, fly it, do your IR in it, do your CPMEL and Instructor rating in it. Now you have 200 some hours in your twin and the insurance will be good with you giving instruction in it without charging you an extra premium. Get this done in a year or so while you attend a 4 year university with an aviation program. Do NOT enroll in the aviation program (airlines don't care what degree you have), choose another program that will give you a basis in another field should you encounter issues that take you out of the airlines. Nursing is a great career choice for travel and living all over the world. You do however want to take the aircraft maintenance program classes.

After you have your MEI you can sell multi ratings as well as multi time building blocks to the students in the aviation program for much less than the program gets for Multi time. This allows you to build your 1500hrs hrs towards your ATP as primarily multi time, and do it on someone else's dime while even collecting a bit of food money on the side.
Click to expand...

I am already in college but it is not an aviation college. I have been thinking about doing nursing just as a back up. Does it really matter if I go to an aviation college? Because I have been training at redbird skyport and they have great instructors. I think getting my Multi after my PPL is a good idea. It would probably be cheaper if I buy a plane right? Any more tips?
 
shyampatel94 said:
I am already in college but it is not an aviation college. I have been thinking about doing nursing just as a back up. Does it really matter if I go to an aviation college? Because I have been training at redbird skyport and they have great instructors. I think getting my Multi after my PPL is a good idea. It would probably be cheaper if I buy a plane right? Any more tips?
Click to expand...

If you have the predisposition, a computer science degree with a heavy emphasis on object oriented programming would be my recommendation. It's a skill set that will always be in demand and could be done on the side while building your flying career. And no bed pans to empty.
 
shyampatel94 said:
I am already in college but it is not an aviation college. I have been thinking about doing nursing just as a back up. Does it really matter if I go to an aviation college? Because I have been training at redbird skyport and they have great instructors. I think getting my Multi after my PPL is a good idea. It would probably be cheaper if I buy a plane right? Any more tips?
Click to expand...

No, the aviation college is only really to provide you with a ready market to sell multi ratings and time building to which builds your time.
 
You want to fly for the U.S. airline eh?

1 pre lube corn hole

2 spend 70k at your local ATP puppy mil

3 fly as a slave for them

4 apply for regional, luckily your now a seasoned b1otch, so youll be used to the "life style"

5 get on at a major as a FO (corn hole may require additional lube)

6 now that you're almost at retirement age you're making some good money, too bad your too old and fat not to enjoy it
 
The best way for an 18-year-old to get to the airlines is to get into the US Naval or Air Force Academy, get pilot training on graduation, and choose the tanker/transport pipeline. After completing your commitment, the major airlines will be begging you to apply.
 
Ron Levy said:
The best way for an 18-year-old to get to the airlines is to get into the US Naval or Air Force Academy, get pilot training on graduation, and choose the tanker/transport pipeline. After completing your commitment, the major airlines will be begging you to apply.
Click to expand...

Isn't the pilot commitment 12 years now in the AF? Not knocking that path, but with that commitment period, and a big uncertainty given the current funding climate for the military for how much actual flight time you'll get in those 12 years, I'm not convinced it is the optimal path for getting to the majors.

Henning's got a unique take on it. Another path is to become a real expert at training folks in various GA avionics, and/or other specialized training.
 
shyampatel94 said:
I am already in college but it is not an aviation college. I have been thinking about doing nursing just as a back up. Does it really matter if I go to an aviation college? Because I have been training at redbird skyport and they have great instructors. I think getting my Multi after my PPL is a good idea. It would probably be cheaper if I buy a plane right? Any more tips?
Click to expand...

As far as the college degree thing goes, don't get a degree in aviation. All that will do is allow you to get a job in aviation. If you ever need to leave the aviation industry, you'll be back at square one for the most part. If nursing is something you're into, then by all means go for it.

A couple of folks have mentioned the military academies. Since you're already in college, you're well out of the group that typically gets selected (over achieving high school students). Instead, if you're interested, apply as an officer for any of the services after you've earned your BS. One caveat to consider though, is that if you expect to get into a flying slot, you'll need to have degree that will suit that career path. In other words, the nursing degree will get you in the military, but it probably won't help at all in getting you a flying slot.
 
The biggest hurdle will be your self respect. To fix that you'll need to go to an inner city bus station and give free oral sex for a month or two and you'll be close to ready for the regionals.

Oh, and build a shrine to shinny jets as that will be your only motivation to endure in lieu of money and a life. Also might want to recite "fly it and grieve it" 5 times each night before you go to bed like a hail marry.
 
How many hours do you need for multi engine rating?
 
Like after you get your PPL? How many hours for ME rating?
 
shyampatel94 said:
Like after you get your PPL? How many hours for ME rating?
Click to expand...

Rating will just take a few hours if proficient, insurability will take 15-25 dual. If you start with no complex and buy a twin, no need to rush the rating in that 25 hrs.
 
shyampatel94 said:
Like after you get your PPL? How many hours for ME rating?
Click to expand...

There's no minimum. It can be anywhere from 5 hours to 15 hours depending on how quickly you pick things up. Mine took 8 hours of training over the course of five days to meet Commercial standards with Instrument privileges. YMMV.

Lots of discussion in the other thread.
 
You can go reserve in the USAF - take a job as transport crew. Then once you get a degree apply for a pilot slot - these are easier to get than a OEM pilot slot since you have people to recommend you internally.

Get the pilot training - need 4 years active. 4 years reserve. They have another call on you for 2 after that - club option. You will have airline recruiters calling you in year 4. You can easily fly through the reserve committment.

How do I know all this - I have a buddy in year 5 of the reserve committment and he's got a pilot slot for spring when he gets his EE degree. . . . USAF though will offer you big retention bucks for active and even active reserve . . .
 
So why is it that airlines value multi time so much more than single time?

It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense... Performance wise singles can be just as fast/complex as twins.
 
dans2992 said:
So why is it that airlines value multi time so much more than single time?

It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense... Performance wise singles can be just as fast/complex as twins.
Click to expand...

Different mode of thinking.
 
dans2992 said:
So why is it that airlines value multi time so much more than single time?

It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense... Performance wise singles can be just as fast/complex as twins.
Click to expand...

I suspect because there's just that much more going on from a systems management perspective flying a multi. Plus they tend to be bigger and heavier than a comparable high-performance single (by at least one engine), thus that much more demanding. And it may just be a weeding out tool. :dunno: But the bias is there, so might as well prepare for it.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
You want to fly for the U.S. airline eh?

1 pre lube corn hole

2 spend 70k at your local ATP puppy mil

3 fly as a slave for them

4 apply for regional, luckily your now a seasoned b1otch, so youll be used to the "life style"

5 get on at a major as a FO (corn hole may require additional lube)

6 now that you're almost at retirement age you're making some good money, too bad your too old and fat not to enjoy it
Click to expand...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Henning said:
Different mode of thinking.
Click to expand...

How so? You mean what to do if an engine fails on takeoff is a more complex decision than in a single?

I perfectly accept that this is an airline requirement and not changing, but I am just trying to figure out their rationale...
 
dans2992 said:
How so? You mean what to do if an engine fails on takeoff is a more complex decision than in a single?

I perfectly accept that this is an airline requirement and not changing, but I am just trying to figure out their rationale...
Click to expand...
Most airliners are twins? :D
 
dans2992 said:
How so? You mean what to do if an engine fails on takeoff is a more complex decision than in a single?

I perfectly accept that this is an airline requirement and not changing, but I am just trying to figure out their rationale...
Click to expand...

Yeah, you calculate your response points for every runway and condition because you have more options to consider.
 
Henning said:
Yeah, you calculate your response points for every runway and condition because you have more options to consider.
Click to expand...

Exactly. When the fan stops in a single you know what you're doing shortly...it's just a matter of where. With a twin you have multiple decisions to make and more procedures to follow depending on those decisions.
 
So don't you guys think that buying an old multi engine would take a lot of maintenance cost? I'm thinking of getting my instrument, commercial, and then add on multi with commercial. And then my CFI, CFII, and MEI and train on the Multi to get some hours? Or get contract pilot jobs? I feel like it is a lot of money to buy a twin that won't be a plane. What is y'alls thoughts about this?
 
Multi engine time is necessary but I would not get too hung up on spending $$$ to build many hundreds of hours. If you decide to go the civilian route, the focus should be on obtaining commercial, AMEL, and instrument airplane ratings as cheaply as possible. Then do something to build the time to get your ATP. This is commonly instructing. Get a four-year degree in something outside of aviation, preferably that can allow you to earn a decent living.

At the regional level most airlines want 100 hrs multi engine time. With the *current* state of hiring, if an applicant had less I think they'd have a fair shot since there is a shortage of new ATP rated people to take the entry level jobs. Personally, I got hired at my first regional gig with 25 hours multi engine time.

Its a long road to get into a major. The best way is to be born a minority daughter of a major airline chief pilot. If you can work that out, you're set!
 
If you considering the military route check out the Marine Corp, the only branch who will guarantee you a flying position, talk to your local OSO, they can provide you with details.
 
shyampatel94 said:
So don't you guys think that buying an old multi engine would take a lot of maintenance cost? I'm thinking of getting my instrument, commercial, and then add on multi with commercial. And then my CFI, CFII, and MEI and train on the Multi to get some hours? Or get contract pilot jobs? I feel like it is a lot of money to buy a twin that won't be a plane. What is y'alls thoughts about this?
Click to expand...

Yep, there would be maintenance costs, but while training we've been averaging around 15 gph for one equipped with 180s....a 160 hp version would be slightly less. So that's $90 per hour out of pocket (assuming $6/gal) plus instructor for the dual hours.

Now go look at what you're paying per hour for a C-150 or C-172. I bet it's more than $90/hr. Multiply the delta over 250 hours and see how much you have to put into maintenance, insurance, etc. Then factor in the value of flying the same plane that's always available whenever you have time to train or fly and it might not be as far-fetched an idea as you might think.

(Not to mention, with your own plane flying multiple times a week you can probably work out a good deal with an independent CFI to take you through everything for a significant discount over the typical FBO rate.)
 
shyampatel94 said:
I am already in college but it is not an aviation college. I have been thinking about doing nursing just as a back up. Does it really matter if I go to an aviation college? Because I have been training at redbird skyport and they have great instructors. I think getting my Multi after my PPL is a good idea. It would probably be cheaper if I buy a plane right? Any more tips?
Click to expand...

It used to be that any kind of college degree would open the doors. Now, you have to hold an Airline Transport Pilot certificate (your list didn't get that far) just to be hired as first officer. To qualify for the ATP you must have 1500 hours of flight time with many subrequirements as to how that 1500 hours is broken up. If you have a bachelor's degree with an aviation major and can meet other requirements you can lower the entry hours to 1000.

Physical standards are higher for ATPs than they are for commercial pilots...make sure that you can meet those standards before you get too far along your path.

Go to www.faa.gov, click on regulations, and drill down to 61.160 and 67.101 et al. Or buy an AIM/FAR book at your school...you will need one anyway.

Bob Gardner
 
Buying a twin is the cheapest part of owning one.

Flying my Apache isn't that bad either, about $90/hr including a general maintenance reserve.

If you bought a twin that had a "reasonable price" or cheaper, expect to spend at least a few thousand up front.

If you buy a multi that won't be a maintenance hog in the first few years expect to spend well above average for whatever model you're looking at.
 
dans2992 said:
How so? You mean what to do if an engine fails on takeoff is a more complex decision than in a single?

I perfectly accept that this is an airline requirement and not changing, but I am just trying to figure out their rationale...
Click to expand...

Yes. Definitely yes. If you aren't on your A game flying a twin and lose an engine on takeoff/initial climb, you can be rolled over on your back in less time than it takes to read about it....lose one with a single and you don't get the roll/yaw motion.

This was a purely personal decision, but I declined to train a guy for his ATP in an old Apache because of its poor engine-out characteristics. Low-time twin pilot plus old airplane...not a good situation.

Bob Gardner
 
Apache123 said:
Buying a twin is the cheapest part of owning one.

Flying my Apache isn't that bad either, about $90/hr including a general maintenance reserve.

If you bought a twin that had a "reasonable price" or cheaper, expect to spend at least a few thousand up front.

If you buy a multi that won't be a maintenance hog in the first few years expect to spend well above average for whatever model you're looking at.
Click to expand...


Did you part with your Apache yet? It was yours I was thinking of.
 
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