Best San Francisco Airport?

VWGhiaBob

VWGhiaBob

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VWGhiaBob
I think I saw a post about this a couple of months back, but can't find it now. Feel free to send me a link.

I'm a VFR pilot and want to go to San Francisco Bay Area this coming 4th of July weekend. I'm trying to decide where to fly in. Criteria:

Most important:
Reasonably clear of chronic fog areas

Important:
Near BART or reasonably easy to rent a car on the airport property

Oakland sounds great, but I hear the fog is a big issue. Hayward? Concord?

I learned to fly at KPAO, but not much there in the way of transportation.

Am I missing any good options?
 
Oakland and Hayward have pretty much the same situation in as far as weather and proximity to BART. Oakland I would say has the slight edge on the weather. The marine layer clears there first and forms last. Right now there is no issue in the bay with marine layers. It is all VMC, but of course I guess that could change.

If you are really worried about overcast, then I would likely pick Livermore. Concord might be OK too, but I think it covers over before Livermore does. Both of these locations you are best off with a rental car.

Given the weather we've been having, and your destination being SF, I would plan for Oakland. Park at Landmark and they can give you a ride to BART. Even if we do get a marine layer, you should able to get in, or out between the hours of 11am and 4pm. Also controllers hear have always been kind to me with special VFRs.

Have fun!
 
2 major considerations:

Think noon-ish
Think "other than June" -- better yet, consider September
 
We had business meetings in "Baghdad By The Bay" that required a three-night stay. Rather than get gouged for parking and fuel at Oakland, we went to Concord instead. Pacific States Aviation drove us to and from the nearby BART station, and fuel and parking were reasonably priced. Plus, CCR is outside the Class B perimeter and is less susceptible than OAK or HWD to marine clouds and fog.

The BART ride into San Francisco from Concord is about 10 minutes longer than from Oakland, but you get to avoid the sketchy Oakland station.
 
All around Concord will be your best bet, just have reserves to get up to the hills if it goes solid Tulee fog as well. Really low fog layers OAK can be good for because the big runways. You can have good visual all the way down to 50 or even 20', then lose it for a couple of seconds. Those conditions also have no wind associated with them. If you are stable on the centerline nose high, behind the power curve, and settling 300 fpm, you have enough runway surface area to be able to manage a good outcome.
 
These days, BART goes out to Livermore. But Concord is more convenient and has better connections.

I thoroughly disagree on Oakland "clearing first." It's not at all unusual for even PAO to be clear while Oakland and Hayward are still IFR.

Here are all the current METARs around the South Bay. Notice PAO is MVFR, while the East Bay is IFR. The big picture is that there is a marine layer hanging over the central Bay, and the border is between Palo Alto and Fremont. It's bright, sunny and clear south of that. With a mild northwesterly wind, the marine layer is piling up against the East Bay hills. The Peninsula is MVFR all the way up, but you'll need SVFR to land. And that's all normal.

KPAO 011525Z VRB04KT 7SM SCT009 BKN011 18/15 A2983
KNUQ 011508Z 08003KT 10SM SCT014 18/13 A2984 RMK AO2
KSQL 011547Z 30005KT 10SM BKN013 17/13 A2985
KSJC 011453Z 14007KT 10SM FEW011 16/12 A2983 RMK AO2 SLP102 T01610117 53010
KHWD 011527Z 00000KT 10SM OVC011 16/14 A2983 RMK AO2
KOAK 011453Z 35006KT 10SM OVC009 15/13 A2984 RMK AO2 SLP103 T01500128 53008
KSFO 011456Z 34003KT 10SM FEW009 17/13 A2983 RMK AO2 SLP102 T01670128 51010
KRHV 011522Z 00000KT 10SM SKC 19/13 A2984

Do not discount KSJC. It may be your best bet, expensive as it is.

With a rental car, your best bet is probably San Carlos, or maybe Reid (though the traffic down there really sucks).

You trained at Palo Alto, so you know it clears by 11AM almost every day. San Carlos is only slightly worse, Oakland and Hayward slightly worse still.

IF you're current in actual and equipped for precision GPS approaches, an out-of-the-box solution is Half Moon Bay. There is a precision approach these days, and there is a ZipCar site right outside the terminal to get you to the City. The ceiling is currently at 500, which is above minimums for the GPS Z approach. See http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1407/06675RZ30.PDF
 
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If you are going to consider KHAF, you might even consider KAPC (Napa) which is roughly as close, depending on where you are in the City. It's still susceptible to the marine layer, but less so than the East Bay airports. You can arrange a rental through Enterprise.
 
If your plan is to go in to San Francisco on Bart then Concord is the best choice because the Concord line is direct to the city with no transfer. It's also a very scenic ride.
 
Uh oh...

The big day arrives (my longest cross country ever) and KCCR TAF's call for >20 knot crosswinds this afternoon. So I'm back to Hayward or (more likely) Oakland, and I'll chance it with the fog. Wherever I land, it will be my base of operations for the holiday weekend.

Question...what's the best alternative if all the airports get fogged in...an airport that hopefully doesn't frequently get bad crosswinds. Livermore?
 
Re: Uh oh...

VWGhiaBob said:
The big day arrives (my longest cross country ever) and KCCR TAF's call for >20 knot crosswinds this afternoon. So I'm back to Hayward or (more likely) Oakland, and I'll chance it with the fog. Wherever I land, it will be my base of operations for the holiday weekend.

Question...what's the best alternative if all the airports get fogged in...an airport that hopefully doesn't frequently get bad crosswinds. Livermore?
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Livermore will work, but it's pretty far away. Looks like San Carlos (SQL is VFR with no wind right now. Napa (KAPC) will probably clear by early afternoon and it has a nice crosswind runway.
 
I don't understand. CCR has a cross runway. If the crosswind is bad, ask for it.

You would need a 30+ knot total wind to get a 20 knot crosswind on both the runways. That's not common at all, and if it happens, expect moderate turbulence around the mountains all over the place.

The TAF for Oakland is 10 knots right down the runway. Concord does not have a TAF, and the Travis TAF can be quite different, especially with regard to direction. Wind often gets funneled by the terrain. There is little terrain around Travis, and quite a bit around Concord.

Gusty winds on the edge of the valley mean it's hot as hell in the valley, and the winds will be less closer to the Bay. And they lighten WAY up after 6PM or so, still 2+ hours ahead of sunset.

Sometimes if it's hot in the Santa Clara Valley, the winds can howl down the Bay. All the runways are aligned with that.
 
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Great advice, MAKG. I'm now shooting for Oakland...nice and close to BART.
 
MAKG1 said:
I don't understand. CCR has a cross runway. If the crosswind is bad, ask for it.

You would need a 30+ knot total wind to get a 20 knot crosswind on both the runways. That's not common at all, and if it happens, expect moderate turbulence around the mountains all over the place.

The TAF for Oakland is 10 knots right down the runway. Concord does not have a TAF, and the Travis TAF can be quite different, especially with regard to direction. Wind often gets funneled by the terrain. There is little terrain around Travis, and quite a bit around Concord.

Gusty winds on the edge of the valley mean it's hot as hell in the valley, and the winds will be less closer to the Bay. And they lighten WAY up after 6PM or so, still 2+ hours ahead of sunset.

Sometimes if it's hot in the Santa Clara Valley, the winds can howl down the Bay. All the runways are aligned with that.
Click to expand...

Ahhh that's a good point, I missed that CCR used Travis' TAF. I agree it should be a non issue.
 
Ccr wind 180 at 17g22 landing 19 shouldn't be to bad. Have a safe flight.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Great advice, MAKG. I'm now shooting for Oakland...nice and close to BART.
Click to expand...

And your BART ride is cut in half. It's 45 min to the city from concord vs 20 min from the coliseum/airport station.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Great advice, MAKG. I'm now shooting for Oakland...nice and close to BART.
Click to expand...

It's a surprisingly nice airport for GA, except for the really expensive fuel.

North Tower almost always uses 28R for landing. Plan accordingly and stay out of the extended centerline for 30 (if you must cross it, expect to cross at the numbers or well outside Class C). Expect a short taxi to the FBOs from 28R, complete with a "follow me" vehicle.

The weather at Hayward is almost certain to be identical. It's only a few miles away. Fuel may be a whole lot cheaper, though the BART ride, and the trip to BART, will be longer.
 
Oakland is a good choice. You'll be fine. Winds are rarely a problem there and they do have a cross wind runway too. I don't live in the Bay proper anymore, so I don't know what the current weather is doing over there, but middle of the day should be fine for VFR arrivals and departures.

Have fun!
 
There's a cross runway at Oakland, but I don't think I've ever heard/seen anyone use 33. It does exist, though.

30 is not an option most of the time. That's where the airliners go, and it has a landing fee. The North Field runways do not.

But there really is no reason to use 30. 28R even has an ILS, and it's long and wide enough to land lots of biz jets.
 
MAKG1 said:
There's a cross runway at Oakland, but I don't think I've ever heard/seen anyone use 33. It does exist, though.

30 is not an option most of the time. That's where the airliners go, and it has a landing fee. The North Field runways do not.

But there really is no reason to use 30. 28R even has an ILS, and it's long and wide enough to land lots of biz jets.
Click to expand...

When I was getting my PPL, my instructor requested and received a touch and go on 28R, to an immediate full stop on 33. I think the secret was called a "skip-diddy-do" or something to that effect.
 
Now there's a TFR

OK...So I finally settled on Oakland, but there's a TFR over the airport because of a game. If I'm on flight following, can I land?
 
Re: Now there's a TFR

VWGhiaBob said:
OK...So I finally settled on Oakland, but there's a TFR over the airport because of a game. If I'm on flight following, can I land?
Click to expand...

Typically as long as you are communicating with the controlling facility you are fine.
 
MAKG1 said:
There's a cross runway at Oakland, but I don't think I've ever heard/seen anyone use 33. It does exist, though.

30 is not an option most of the time. That's where the airliners go, and it has a landing fee. The North Field runways do not.

But there really is no reason to use 30. 28R even has an ILS, and it's long and wide enough to land lots of biz jets.
Click to expand...

You have to request 33/15. The north field pattern will never switch to 33 no matter what the wind is doing. They will always tell you to use 28 first. Just request 33 and they will give it to you.

It is used all the time by locals for departures and for arrivals by locals when the wind really favors it. They will never, ever approve a landing on 30 without declaring an emergency and frankly, there is no reason other than that to ever land there.

You can request to fly the approach to 28R and then full stop on 33. You can also do the 33 pattern if you want and the same for 15 if it is one of those rare days during a storm system where the winds reverse.

I learned to fly at KOAK and flew out of there for 12 years. The controllers have no problems accommodating a request for 33. My old hangar used to be at the end of 33 so it was convenient for me fly an approach to 28R (was 27R then) then full stop on 33 and I would pull off and be right at my hangar.
 
Re: Now there's a TFR

VWGhiaBob said:
OK...So I finally settled on Oakland, but there's a TFR over the airport because of a game. If I'm on flight following, can I land?
Click to expand...

Yes. No issues. They will tell you not to over fly the Coliseum. I'm not sure which direction you will be coming from, but it's easy to comply. Ignore the TRF, they will tell you what to do and you will be cleared. Which way are you coming from?
 
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Post Mortem...with a surprise ending...

Chose KOAK after checking TAF's over several days. Typically, fog was lifting by 10am, and not returning until very early am.

ATC / Flight Following vectored me in, assigning altitudes...over KSJC and Hayward for a straight in on 29L (not 29R as I had expected). Perfect flight!

Parked at Kaisar Air...stellar service...picked me up AT THE PLANE and drove me to BART

Next day flew to Petaluma and then had a failed alternator on take-off! Saratoga is still there. Thank goodness for Southwest Airlines who got me home without breaking the bank!
 
Oakland doesn't have a 29L….

Glad the trip worked out. That's how an FBO should work. Sorry about the alternator.

Class C's land you where it's convenient. Yesterday, I got assigned 28R at KMRY, which is completely normal for a spam can. Then, sidestepped to 28L right after turning final. At KMRY, 28L is twice as long and 2.5 times as wide as 28R, and it's usually used for airliners and other jets.

My practice flight turned into an exercise in lost comms in Class C. Not fun. PTT failed, so I could hear but not transmit.
 
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I stand corrected...28L not 28R!
 
MAKG1 said:
My practice flight turned into an exercise in lost comms in Class C. Not fun. PTT failed, so I could hear but not transmit.
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I once had that happen right after I climbed into IMC on my way to the Monterey area! The PTT fell into its mounting hole, so that pressing it did no good. A previous renter had stowed the hand mike somewhere, so I had to squawk 7600 until I found it.

In another plane, the PTT failed in the "on" configuration as I was transiting OAK's airspace. I couldn't get it unstuck no matter how many times I poked it. I changed the frequency to something that wouldn't interfere with Oakland tower, but I still couldn't hear, so I squawked 7600 and continued on my assigned route out of their airspace. Eventually I figured out that I could switch the audio panel to the "TEL" position, which was not connected to anything, and after that I was able to use the audio panel switch like a PTT switch by switching it back and forth between TEL and COM1.
 
aw hell - I landed on OAK 30 IFR one am - winds were 170@13G17. That was fun [not].
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Post Mortem...with a surprise ending...

Chose KOAK after checking TAF's over several days. Typically, fog was lifting by 10am, and not returning until very early am.

ATC / Flight Following vectored me in, assigning altitudes...over KSJC and Hayward for a straight in on 29L (not 29R as I had expected). Perfect flight!

Parked at Kaisar Air...stellar service...picked me up AT THE PLANE and drove me to BART

Next day flew to Petaluma and then had a failed alternator on take-off! Saratoga is still there. Thank goodness for Southwest Airlines who got me home without breaking the bank!
Click to expand...

Glad it all worked out like planed... except the failure. I feel your pain. Been there, done that. Bet you found smart phones and credit cards to be wonderful things to carry with you.
 
Yes, Dave! Also didn't hurt that I have a friend with a horse in Petaluma. She became my savior...and taxi driver! She filmed my take off from Petaluma and freaked out when I landed immediately...filmed that too...not a bad landing, if I do say so myself. :wink2:
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Yes, Dave! Also didn't hurt that I have a friend with a horse in Petaluma. She became my savior...and taxi driver! She filmed my take off from Petaluma and freaked out when I landed immediately...filmed that too...not a bad landing, if I do say so myself. :wink2:
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That is nice! When I broke down, I had to stay the night in a motel and then rent the last rental car in the area at a pretty high rate and drive 300+ miles home.
 
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