Best plane for both aerobatics and cross country flying

J

John Cardaci

Filing Flight Plan
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John Cardaci
What plane do you recommend I look at to do both aerobatic flying and cross country flying? I enjoy both. I do recognize there will be tradeoffs. Thank you.
 
Aerobatic Bonanza....
Decathlon
Pitts model 12
Extra
Christen Eagle
You like biplanes or 1 wing?
 
that's gonna be exactly my empty nester mission. acro plus xc. I second the 2 seater RVs. I'm personally eyeballing 6 and 7 trikes, although I'd be open to 14s if they come down in price in 10 years when I'm ready to transition.
 
How much acro have you done? Most folks who ask these types of questions have done little to none. I ask this not to bash or discourage, but only to encourage you to get enough acro training/experience to figure out if you are really that interested in it. If you are a real acro nut, any "compromise" airplane will likely eventually bore you after the twentieth barrel roll or so. If you don't toss it around, you might as well just buy a traditional XC airplane. You'd be surprised how few RV pilots ever turn them over. They buy them mostly for efficiency and speed in an all-around sporty, user-friendly package, but not so much for actual aerobatics...not that they are not capable.
 
Extra 300. But don't be thinking about taking your wife and 3 kids on the cross country expeditions. ;)
 
Mostly XC with the occasional loop and roll, one of the RV series, or perhaps a Hiperbipe.
Mostly local fun flying / acro with the occasional XC with minimal baggage, Starduster.
 
RoscoeT said:
How much acro have you done? Most folks who ask these types of questions have done little to none. I ask this not to bash or discourage, but only to encourage you to get enough acro training/experience to figure out if you are really that interested in it. If you are a real acro nut, any "compromise" airplane will likely eventually bore you after the twentieth barrel roll or so. If you don't toss it around, you might as well just buy a traditional XC airplane. You'd be surprised how few RV pilots ever turn them over. They buy them mostly for efficiency and speed in an all-around sporty, user-friendly package, but not so much for actual aerobatics...not that they are not capable.
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Roscoe I was an Air Force Fighter Pilot, so I've done a lot of acro, and would like to still dabble in clover leafs, cuban 8's, loops, rolls, spins, hammerhead stalls-nothing beyond that. I have been eyeing the RV's- How I wish I had the talent to build one. I'm brand new to his form and can't thank everyone enough for these great replies. I love the pilot brotherhood. Thanks everyone.
 
John Cardaci said:
...I have been eyeing the RV's- How I wish I had the talent to build one.
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You can often (usually) but a used experimental far cheaper than you could build one.

Another (non experimental) option is the French Robin R-series aircraft.
 
John Cardaci said:
What plane do you recommend I look at to do both aerobatic flying and cross country flying? I enjoy both. I do recognize there will be tradeoffs. Thank you.
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This is literally what most of the RVs are designed for. You will have a hard time finding anything better than an RV-14 for this. RV-4/6/7/8s would still be an exceptional choice (the 3s an option if you are flying alone). RV-9/10/12s are not rated for aerobatics.

If you are looking for certificated aircraft, I would hunt down an Aerobatic Musketeer. They seem like a great value for the money.
 
Depends on what you mean for "cross country". For me that meant being able to take me, Mrs. Steingar, and her luggage for a week. I can't afford the RV's that can do that (heck, I don't think I can afford the ones that can't). Moreover, I wouldn't buy an aircraft to travel with someone that's tandem. I like to be able to look at people when I talk to them. That of course, is me.

Were I in this particular boat (and had I the AMUs) I'd get two aircraft. The first would be a really good traveling machine, something with back seats and lots of room for luggage and that can haul a load. The second, small, fun and aerobatic. Probably experimental too. Quite a few to choose from, many aren't even all that expensive.

Anyone who says they can travel cross country in a Vans hasn't traveled cross country in a Vans, at lest the one and two place airframes. Don't get me wrong, they're GREAT aircraft. But lots of vibration and noise make for a poor cross country experience. I imagine I'd not mind that much. I suspect Mrs. Steingar would, mightily.
 
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John Cardaci said:
...I was an Air Force Fighter Pilot, ...
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Plenty of folks with (and some without) your background practice BFM in Van’s aircraft and, when not doing so, use them for cross country traveling.

Then there’s something like a T-34 or SF-260 on the certificated side as well.
 
TCABM said:
Plenty of folks with (and some without) your background practice BFM in Van’s aircraft and, when not doing so, use them for cross country traveling.

Then there’s something like a T-34 or SF-260 on the certificated side as well.
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Just don't come up on the radio calling initial for approach end break over on CTAF, with D-day strips painted on, and your AF flight suit on......:fingerwag:
 
RV's are best because they are THE name brand homebuilt and if you buy one already flying it will only cost 150% to 300% more than other homebuilts with similar capabilities.

T-18's if they are not built too heavy.
Hyperbipe.
Others that are not popping into my head at the moment.
 
steingar said:
Anyone who says they can travel cross country in a Vans hasn't traveled cross country in a Vans, at least the one and two place airframes. Don't get me wrong, they're GREAT aircraft. But lots of vibration and noise make for a poor cross country experience. I imagine I'd not mind that much. I suspect Mrs. Steingar would, mightily.
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Uhh, wut? Your first line makes no sense, plus, it's not true. Have you ever flown cross country in a RV? I have, coast to coast in my RV-8 over the last 13 years and 1600 hours. It's a great cross country ship for 1-2 people as long as the spousal unit doesn't pack a 100 lb bag. Vibration is no more than in a old 172 and noise is covered by a good ANR headset. My wife thinks it beats the crap out of airline travel... and I'm glad I've never flown or taken her up in a Cirrus or she might want that instead. Bleh.

John Cardaci said:
Roscoe I was an Air Force fighter pilot, so I've done a lot of acro, and would like to still dabble in clover leafs, cuban 8's, loops, rolls, spins, hammerhead stalls-nothing beyond that. I have been eyeing the RV's
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As a fighter puke, you need a RV-4 or -8. I've lost count of all the ex-fighter dudes now buzzing around in RVs...
 
My brother in law built an RV-8, he and my sister travel all over the country in it, though not in real cold weather, it's not well insulated. And yeah, he used to fly F-106's.
 
John Cardaci said:
I was an Air Force Fighter Pilot, so I've done a lot of acro!
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No, you have not. All you have done is a lot of futile jinking and jiving trying to keep that dangnambed pipper of a Hornet driver off your arse during DACT hops. You need to go out and get some real aerobatic training, from a good pilot, not one of your Crud playing bro's. Beeyotch. :)

But I am biased (buy a flying RV something, no better value, feels like a fighter, I fly several).
 
“I was an Air Force Fighter Pilot, so I've done a lot of acro...”

If you fly acro like most AF fighter guys fight, then anything that does 4Gs on the horizon should work!! I kid kid...

RV-8 brah. Never fails to bring a smile to my face. Wife loves it. Gets better gas mileage than my car if I’m going over 200 miles.

Also, what’s wrong with calling the initial on CTAF??? Carrier breaks for all my friends!

See you at the merge! Semper Fi.
 
Harmon Rocket II or an F-1 Rocket.
C-GCPC.jpg


Guetersloh-F1-1-e1516920835742.jpeg
 
steingar said:
Depends on what you mean for "cross country". For me that meant being able to take me, Mrs. Steingar, and her luggage for a week. I can't afford the RV's that can do that (heck, I don't think I can afford the ones that can't). Moreover, I wouldn't buy an aircraft to travel with someone that's tandem. I like to be able to look at people when I talk to them. That of course, is me.

Were I in this particular boat (and had I the AMUs) I'd get two aircraft. The first would be a really good traveling machine, something with back seats and lots of room for luggage and that can haul a load. The second, small, fun and aerobatic. Probably experimental too. Quite a few to choose from, many aren't even all that expensive.

Anyone who says they can travel cross country in a Vans hasn't traveled cross country in a Vans, at lest the one and two place airframes. Don't get me wrong, they're GREAT aircraft. But lots of vibration and noise make for a poor cross country experience. I imagine I'd not mind that much. I suspect Mrs. Steingar would, mightily.
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I’ve flown my 9 on long trips with the wife several times. It’s a badass ride for a cross country jaunt. As for the vibration, with the 3 blade prop my seems to run smoother than the 172s and 182s and pretty quiet to boot for a single engine plane.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
On a budget if aerobatic bonanza is out of reach and an Extra 300 is not only out of reach but also isn't a cross-country platform, look into Beech Musketeer aerobatic. It's not fast but it will true at 110kt, can carry 4 and with only front seats occupied will do most positive G maneuvers such as clover leafs, loops, rolls, spins, snaps etc.
I am new to forum and it won't let me post a link, so just google "beech musketeer aerobatic pilot report - Budd Davisson". It's a really nice read.
http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepBeechAkroMusketeer.html
 
steingar said:
Anyone who says they can travel cross country in a Vans hasn't traveled cross country in a Vans, at lest the one and two place airframes. Don't get me wrong, they're GREAT aircraft. But lots of vibration and noise make for a poor cross country experience. I imagine I'd not mind that much. I suspect Mrs. Steingar would, mightily.
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Whaa? I do several long X/C's a year in mine with a passenger. None of the issues you mention have ever been problems. If noise is an issue, buy better headsets. If vibration is an issue, have the prop balanced. Then wave at the Mooney guy when you pass him, burning less fuel. ;-)
 
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steingar said:
Anyone who says they can travel cross country in a Vans hasn't traveled cross country in a Vans, at lest the one and two place airframes. Don't get me wrong, they're GREAT aircraft. But lots of vibration and noise make for a poor cross country experience. I imagine I'd not mind that much. I suspect Mrs. Steingar would, mightily.
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Maybe it's the opposite:

Anyone who says they can't travel cross country in a Vans hasn't traveled cross country in a Vans.

I'm just wondering if you've done it.... because you said "'I imagine".

I've always wondered more about turbulence and bumps in the RV series rather than noise and vibration... but I agree all of those are absolutely consideratios when traveling with your partner.
 
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John Cardaci said:
What plane do you recommend I look at to do both aerobatic flying and cross country flying? I enjoy both. I do recognize there will be tradeoffs. Thank you.
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Are you looking for two seats or four?

There's not many options for a four-seat aerobatic cross country steed. Pretty much the Aerobatic Bonanza and the Siai Marchetti SF.260. And:

BestPal said:
On a budget if aerobatic bonanza is out of reach and an Extra 300 is not only out of reach but also isn't a cross-country platform, look into Beech Musketeer aerobatic. It's not fast but it will true at 110kt, can carry 4 and with only front seats occupied will do most positive G maneuvers such as clover leafs, loops, rolls, spins, snaps etc.
I am new to forum and it won't let me post a link, so just google "beech musketeer aerobatic pilot report - Budd Davisson". It's a really nice read.
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I was today years old when I found out that Beech did an aerobatic version of the Musketeer.

Here's the link to the article, and you're right, it's a good read! Budd Davisson is a great writer. http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepBeechAkroMusketeer.html
 
Swick/Cole Taylorcraft might be worth looking into. Building one right now. FULLY aerobatic (just look up Randy Henderson's routine) and with an O-320 should cruise at around 120-130 indicated, good room for two, and lots of room for baggage. There is one on barnstormers at the moment.
 
If you can afford to operate it, you want a T6.

Otherwise, get the RV and paint invasion stripes on it.
 
pigpenracing said:
Aerobatic Bonanza....
Decathlon
Pitts model 12
Extra
Christen Eagle
You like biplanes or 1 wing?
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He said he wants a x-country airplane. That pretty much rules out acrobatic biplanes.

The only biplanes I’d want for x-country are a Cabin Waco or Curtiss Condor.
 
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