Beginning of flight training.

saracelica

saracelica

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
1,814
Display Name
Display name:
saracelica
So I'm done with my PPL (thank godness!) One of my friends is just starting out in the world of learning it all. She's hard core reading about everything to pass the written at some point. She says she's on a tight budget (husband wants to retire - who doesn't want to retire from the workforce!). First lesson she went green :vomit: and could barely drive home. She said "CFI did too many loopsie doodles" But he was just showing her all the things she's reading about. Maybe he pushed a little far. I suggested he back off a little and take it easy the next time. So they went flying today and I texted her "How'd it go today? Better I hope!" She replied "Headache and almost threw up and maybe my headset adjusted"

Anything any of you guys would say to her to help? Is she putting too much stress and trying to learn too quick and shove it into her head? Dehydrated? I'm baffled but don't know what to say.
 
Water...

Ginger or Ginger ale also helps.

I don't know how the CFI flies. Maybe take her on a flight with you? See if she is ok as a passenger.
 
TMetzinger said:
Water...

Ginger or Ginger ale also helps.

I don't know how the CFI flies. Maybe take her on a flight with you? See if she is ok as a passenger.
Click to expand...
I offered to take her on a pleasure flight and she turned me down. Fine line since I'm friends with the CFI and the student. :) I know/got use to how the CFI flies so I don't think he'd do anything too crazy.
 
Bob Hoover, one of the top aerobatic/test pilots in the world, said he would throw up after every aerobatic flight as a kid. But he pushed himself and eventually got over it (obviously).

Although your friend isn't doing outside snaps and knife edge spins, I'd be willing to bet that she could overcome the sickness in time.
 
Some folks just aren't cut out for it, but two lessons doesn't make that certain. Your friend should discuss this with the instructor, and try to work on just getting used to flying before learning to fly. There may be some anxiety issues at work here, too, and that should be explored. The instructor should consider not even trying to teach much, and also stick with dead smooth air, until your friend is more comfortable in the plane.

And find her a headset that's comfortable on her head. That could be half of the problem right there.
 
Is this friend a long time flight sim gamer?

"Flying" MSFS is much easier if you stay "head down" and focus on the instruments. Carrying that habit over into a real airplane is a recipe for air sickness (at least at first).

Some GFR time (Go For Ride) straight and level with her on the controls might help (assuming she isn't yanking the yoke around)

Most people get over it.
 
Just keep it going and see what happens. Lots of folks get used to it, especially when there is a great deal of exposure.
 
Ron Levy said:
The instructor should consider not even trying to teach much, and also stick with dead smooth air, until your friend is more comfortable in the plane.
Click to expand...
I think he's trying to be considerate of her financial threshold. She heard it cost $10k and that's what she's thinking. (I spent MUCH more then that but I did it until I was good enough to pass the checkride)

Ron Levy said:
And find her a headset that's comfortable on her head. That could be half of the problem right there.
Click to expand...
It could be. I'll be loaning her a couple of different headsets. She wanted to borrow my Bose headset but no point in that - if she likes them (which she would) she couldn't afford $1k for a set and I'm definetly not selling!
 
saracelica said:
I think he's trying to be considerate of her financial threshold.
Click to expand...
Well, if she quits after a few lessons because it makes her sick, she won't be spending much money. OTOH, she won't be finding out if flying really is/isn't for her, either. If it's going to take her longer and more money to learn to fly, that's the way it is, and she can make that decision for herself. But to try to push the issue when it's making her physically ill is abusive, not considerate.
 
saracelica said:
I think he's trying to be considerate of her financial threshold. She heard it cost $10k and that's what she's thinking. (I spent MUCH more then that but I did it until I was good enough to pass the checkride)
Click to expand...

I like the advice I got in my other thread: "don't count the money."

Let's say she does get the PPL done for under $10k, what is she going to do then? Not go on to other ratings or worse, not spend money on flying?

She should just figure it's going to be an expensive hobby and one that's worth spending some money on to figure out if she likes it...if not, she'll have several thousand left, I'm sure.
 
Tell her pre-flight diet can be important, along with good hydration. She doesn't need to go out and eat at the greasy spoon, but an empty stomach isn't good either.
 
As far as the cost, tell her to slow down and quit pushing herself so hard. Relaxing a little would probably do wonders for her. Just enjoy the flying and pay as you go.
 
Did your friend ever mention that she's suceptible to motion sickness? That can be a game changer. It can be overcome, sometimes. Saw it alot when I taught aerobatics...takes about 4 slow rolls and a loop before people start yawning in technicolor. NOT FUN.

If I were her instructor, I would inquire about motion sickness in her past. It could be that she's just overwhelmed or uncomfortable...airplanes can make terrible classrooms. I might suggest that she just go sit in the cockpit for a little while, take it all in - without the noise. etc. Maybe listen to the radio. Also, I would be extra gentle with her, and if necessary, conduct shorter lessons so her nausea is kept at bay. If it's any consolation, pilots who are sensitive in this way often become excellent stick and rudder pilots - once they overcome it. Keep us posted.
 
j1b3h0 said:
Did your friend ever mention that she's suceptible to motion sickness? That can be a game changer. It can be overcome, sometimes. Saw it alot when I taught aerobatics...takes about 4 slow rolls and a loop before people start yawning in technicolor. NOT FUN.

If I were her instructor, I would inquire about motion sickness in her past. It could be that she's just overwhelmed or uncomfortable...airplanes can make terrible classrooms. I might suggest that she just go sit in the cockpit for a little while, take it all in - without the noise. etc. Maybe listen to the radio. Also, I would be extra gentle with her, and if necessary, conduct shorter lessons so her nausea is kept at bay. If it's any consolation, pilots who are sensitive in this way often become excellent stick and rudder pilots - once they overcome it. Keep us posted.
Click to expand...

Sounds pretty much like my first ever aerobatic flight yesterday! Did about six rolls but it was the second loop that did me in:redface:.

Nothing came up (went up on an empty stomach) but I started getting motion sickness. First time ever feeling like that in an airplane but I'm going to have to get past this....aerobatics is fun! The Super D is an awesome machine!!!
 
Sometimes I'd do 3 or 4 hour-long lessons in a Super Decathlon or Great Lakes. I had a pretty tough gut, but jeesh, 4 hours of hard acro, plus 5 and minus 2 and a half Gs. I was so tired after those.
 
saracelica said:
She said "CFI did too many loopsie doodles"
Click to expand...
I'm sorry... loopsie doodles? Is she sure she wants to learn to fly?

I'd taken a couple of lessons about 10-12 years ago. When I showed up for my first "recent" lesson, it was day VFR... but just barely, really. Cold, low ceiling, maybe 5 mile vis, 10kt or so crosswind, lots of turbulence. And the CFI had me do the takeoff, at a Class C airport, in a rickety '63 Cherokee.

At about 200' AGL I was seriously questioning whether I wanted to fly or not. That airplane got tossed around like an empty pop can on the ocean. Scared the bejeezus out of me. It got better, not that day, but under better conditions.
 
DaleB said:
I'm sorry... loopsie doodles? Is she sure she wants to learn to fly?

I'd taken a couple of lessons about 10-12 years ago. When I showed up for my first "recent" lesson, it was day VFR... but just barely, really. Cold, low ceiling, maybe 5 mile vis, 10kt or so crosswind, lots of turbulence. And the CFI had me do the takeoff, at a Class C airport, in a rickety '63 Cherokee.

At about 200' AGL I was seriously questioning whether I wanted to fly or not. That airplane got tossed around like an empty pop can on the ocean. Scared the bejeezus out of me. It got better, not that day, but under better conditions.
Click to expand...

I laughed out loud at your post, especially the "rickety '63 Cherokee" part. Been there, done that!:D With regard to the original post, call me cynical, but sometimes I suspect that CFIs try early on to weed out the people who won't cut it. Which is not to say, Saracelica, that your friend won't cut it. If the CFI is demonstrating things that make her feel queasy, then maybe afterward she should say, "OK, now let me try it." I think a lot of motion-sickness issues have to do with control. In other words, when you're the one in control, the very same maneuver doesn't make you feel sick.
 
Eagle I said:
I laughed out loud at your post, especially the "rickety '63 Cherokee" part.
Click to expand...
That flight school did have some roached out trainers. I found out much later that they had originally been a Part 141 school, but had their 141 certification pulled by the FAA. Then they had basically been kicked out of the airport where they had started out, and moved to where they were when I found them. Of course no one mentioned any of this, I had to find out much later (after they went belly-up). Their trainers were in less than stellar shape. The next place had rental trainers in better condition, but still not good enough I'd take my wife up in them (safe and airworthy, but not clean or nice looking).

I'm glad to be flying a club plane now. It's in FAR better condition, people really take care of it.
 
Eagle I said:
In other words, when you're the one in control, the very same maneuver doesn't make you feel sick.
Click to expand...
Exactly. My husband was flying last night and went through some turbulance I felt a little "not so great" never :vomit: but when I got to fly home I went through the same turbulance and thought that was FUN! :-D

Hope she does better and I passed along the suggestions!
 
DaleB said:
That flight school did have some roached out trainers. I found out much later that they had originally been a Part 141 school, but had their 141 certification pulled by the FAA. Then they had basically been kicked out of the airport where they had started out, and moved to where they were when I found them. Of course no one mentioned any of this, I had to find out much later (after they went belly-up). Their trainers were in less than stellar shape. The next place had rental trainers in better condition, but still not good enough I'd take my wife up in them (safe and airworthy, but not clean or nice looking).

I'm glad to be flying a club plane now. It's in FAR better condition, people really take care of it.
Click to expand...

I'm sure I'm not the only one to think that, looking back, it's scary to remember some of the people and planes we put our trust in because we didn't know any better at the time! And by the way, congratulations on becoming a real pilot! I hope that someday I'll know that feeling, too, although I've been feeling a little discouraged lately.
 
Eagle I said:
I'm sure I'm not the only one to think that, looking back, it's scary to remember some of the people and planes we put our trust in because we didn't know any better at the time! And by the way, congratulations on becoming a real pilot! I hope that someday I'll know that feeling, too, although I've been feeling a little discouraged lately.
Click to expand...
I was too, for a while. It seemed like I was doomed to a life of pattern flying and crappy weather. Tough it out, things eventually get better.
 
DaleB said:
I was too, for a while. It seemed like I was doomed to a life of pattern flying and crappy weather. Tough it out, things eventually get better.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I have no doubt that things will get better. It's just a matter of whether the money runs out before things get better! But I know that most everyone has gone through that. You can't put a price tag on dreams, right?:wink2:
 
DaleB said:
Just close your eyes really tight and write the check. :eek:
Click to expand...

Speaking of which, it's time for me to go to work so I can pay those bills. I wish all you PoAers a nice afternoon/evening/night/morning, whatever it is where you are.
 
To the OP. I had some motion sickness problems early on my first couple of lessons. Here are the things that got me over it. (a lot of these have been already mentioned, but this might help consolodate them)
1. Stop staring at the instruments...motion sickness occurs when your inner ear senses motion that your eyes can't verify...if you are staring at the altimeter when you hit that bit of turbulence, your eyes can't verify the motion...thus motion sickness
2. Find that "just right" amount of food and hydration...Too much food (especially greasy food) can add to the queeziness, but not enough food, or liquids can do the same
3. Fight through it...as you learn more, and begin to become more involved with the actual flying, you begin to have more things to focus on that will distract you from the motion sickness
4. Give it time, mine went away after a couple of lessons...your body starts to adjust.

Hope all that helps
 
saracelica said:
I think he's trying to be considerate of her financial threshold. She heard it cost $10k and that's what she's thinking. (I spent MUCH more then that but I did it until I was good enough to pass the checkride)


It could be. I'll be loaning her a couple of different headsets. She wanted to borrow my Bose headset but no point in that - if she likes them (which she would) she couldn't afford $1k for a set and I'm definetly not selling!
Click to expand...
As some one who decided to learn to fly at the age of 65 have abt 48 hours now, medical issues did not allow me to solo first but but took 18 months and finally got it out of the way( medical with an an S.I) I bought the Bose A20 on an Installment plan from Bose interest free it's paid for now and well worth it at my age and hearing nxt would be to go on Ebay and get an older Bose X. I have never puked and enjoy steep turns( Favorite) so I don't know how that feels
 
DaleB said:
Just close your eyes really tight and write the check. :eek:
Click to expand...
For every paycheck I write my club a check for a set dollar amount. It hurts, but everytime the monthly statement comes in it's near $0, so that helps ease the pain.

Good luck to your friend. I've been lucky to grow up on boats, so motion sickness isn't much of an issue. Like others have said, focus outside the cockpit at the horizion. And later on in training she will be too distracted to think about how her stomach/head feels.
 
Most of what I've read seems to indicate that one simply has to suffer through motion sickness while the mind and body acclimate themselves, at which point most people stop suffering the symptoms. Unfortunately some people are never able to acclimate. Here is just one article on this much-studied subject:

"Effects of Motion at Sea on Crew Performance: A Survey", Stevens and Parsons

http://www.nps.navy.mil/orfacpag/resumePages/projects/Fatigue/HSISymposium/cdr_pdfs/indexed/1a_3.pdf
"It is somewhat comforting to know that, over time, habituation (or adaptation) occurs. Acquiring one’s “sea legs” may take anywhere from a few hours to several days, and in about 5% of the population, it does not occur at all."
​
 
My first ever scheduled flying lesson was cancelled due to IFR weather, and the second was cancelled due to turbulence and gusty winds. I would have normally flown on a day like that later on, but the flight school didn't want it to be my first impression of flying in small planes. I can't blame them. I now try to avoid taking first time passengers on turbulent days because I don't want their first flight with me to be their last.

My first lesson involved shallow turns, climbs and descents. I was on the controls for taxi, takeoff, and everything else until final approach. We didn't do a stall until the 3rd lesson. I've never been motion sick in a plane before anyway, but this seems to be the way to go to avoid it in people more susceptible to it.

Nothing in the Private PTS is hard on the stomach. It's all about 1G if done properly (1.4 for steep turns but it feels like 1 to me). I can see choppy turbulence being bad for some people, but a CFI should probably avoid it until the student has some experience IMO.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top