been in a hold recently?

[igottafly]

Glad this was not me, I believe I would be dizzy.

 

[ScottM]

I can't get the link to open.

But I have never been assigned a hold. I have of course done them for proficiency and when needed as part of the IAP to get established on the final course when not vectored.

 

[HPNFlyGirl]

Looks a lot like my hold over HPN last October.

 

[MSmith]

I got a hold last week on my long XC for instrument training. Dover AFB radar was out of service, and it was IMC down to about 1500 feet.

He assigned me a hold on the FAF for the ILS approach. The FAF was defined by an NDB. He didn't specify a radial, so we flew the procedure turn as the hold. We got assigned to hold at 4000 - the approach started at 2000.

1/2 way down the first outbound leg, he gave us a descent to 3000. At the turn back inbound, he cleared us for the approach. Even with us descended over 1000 FPM (in a Piper Archer) we were still at 2400 at the FAF and told him that we had to do another lap. He apologized for holding us up so long.

 

[AdamZ]

I counted about 20 circuits

 

[ejensen]

Somethings not right with that data. Look at the track log. Speed and altitude all over the place and not likely for a PA28.
time lat/long gs alt
10:18AM 32.93-82.53 138 3700

10:18AM 32.33-82.05 101 4000

10:19AM 32.93-82.53 138 3700

10:19AM 32.37-82.05 27 6000

10:20AM 32.93-82.53 138 3700

10:20AM 32.37-82.08 39 6000

10:21AM 32.93-82.53 138 3700

10:21AM 32.38-82.12 89 2700

10:22AM 32.93-82.53 138 3700

10:22AM 32.38-82.15 89 3300

10:23AM 32.93-82.53 138 3700

10:23AM 32.38-82.17 124 6000

10:23AM 32.38-82.17 89 3900

 

[MartyB]

Wind correction ..... None

 

[ScottM]

I see it now. It looks like a data error when you analysis the flight track log.

 

[wesleyj]

Here is a question I asked a fellow on a recurrency flight recently, when he didnt know I asked 4 other IFR pilots none could answer.

Situation, ILS runway 27, holding at 4grand, told to hold at the LOM, right turn standard pattern, on the inbound leg, you are holding an 8 degree correction to the right for wind, what will you need for correction on the outbound leg.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Bunch of holds coming into the D/FW area last Monday returning from South Carolina. Level 5 storm cell right on the airport (D/FW) and all carriers were being directed to one of the VORs at the four corners with holding instructions and 10 mile legs.

D/FW has a computer management center for traffic. The holds are usually for unpredictable events like this. Center pointed out that other traffic farther out was being delayed by vectoring or held on the ground.

I was able to get into the satelite airport from which I fly--Addison (ADS). Right after I pulled the plane in the hanger it began to rain.

My only recent holds have been one or two ten mile vectors (ten miles one way, then, a 180). I've never been told to hold in a standard pattern at some navaide. Have been vectored to delay arrival or rerouted slightly.

Best,

Dave

 

[SCCutler]

I had to hold at JEN (Glen Rose VOR) last spring inbound from Marfa, because ADS was below minimums- there I was, maybe twenty minutes from my home 'drome, holding in clear sunshiney skies. Three times around (I think), and in we went.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Here is a question I asked a fellow on a recurrency flight recently, when he didnt know I asked 4 other IFR pilots none could answer.

Situation, ILS runway 27, holding at 4grand, told to hold at the LOM, right turn standard pattern, on the inbound leg, you are holding an 8 degree correction to the right for wind, what will you need for correction on the outbound leg.

Ok- I'll bite

I'll try 16° to the left as a first approximation (book answer). This will give me wind correction and some extra space to make the turn will the wind is blowing me back to the inbound leg. The hold will look like a keyhole rather than a racetrack.

Thanks for the question.

 

[gismo]

Here is a question I asked a fellow on a recurrency flight recently, when he didnt know I asked 4 other IFR pilots none could answer.

Situation, ILS runway 27, holding at 4grand, told to hold at the LOM, right turn standard pattern, on the inbound leg, you are holding an 8 degree correction to the right for wind, what will you need for correction on the outbound leg.

Really? The four pilots had no answer at all? Or did you mean their answer didn't agree with yours?

The "correct" answer is that the outbound wind correction depends on a lot more than the inbound correction. The ratio of the wind speed to your TAS and the wind direction relative to the holding course can have an amazing impact on the ratio between the inbound WCA and the outbound WCA. IIRC with windspeeds in excess of 25% of the TAS that ratio can vary from less than 2:1 to over 10:1 and the difference between the correct outbound heading and one calculated as offset from the no wind heading as 3 times the inbound WCA can be as much as 33 degrees in error.

So what do you say is the "correct" answer?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Lance-

You are right, but in absence of any wind or airspeed information, "doubling the inbound correction" was what I was taught (Jeppeson book?) as a first approximation. It seems to work generally for me, or I've just been lucky.

 

[wesleyj]

The four pilots gave 3 answers, one said to make a right turn to the outbound procedure turn heading, fly 1 minute then turn back inbound and reintercept, 2 to just keep going around and experimenting with headings until one is found that works, the last said to use 8 to the left on outbound and increase rate of turn to inbound in order to compensate for any drift but it really didnt matter cause he had never had to hold anywhere anyway,

Really great answers,

I was taught and have taught and used for the last 40 years, 3 times the inbound for outbound, it is simple, straight forward and works every time.

 

[gismo]

Lance-

You are right, but in absence of any wind or airspeed information, "doubling the inbound correction" was what I was taught (Jeppeson book?) as a first approximation. It seems to work generally for me, or I've just been lucky.

As a wild guess, I'd go with 3x as it's easier to correct for by stopping the turn inbound if the needle hasn't started to move by the time you're 60 from the inbound heading. Also since the worst case is with a quartering tailwind on the inbound leg, I'd increase my outbound correction if that was the case. And if the wind is less than 10% of your TAS 2x-3x works pretty well.