Be kind.....

Kaye

Kaye

Line Up and Wait
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iPlaneless
This is really hard to post in this forum as sometimes ya'll are a little tough. But I'm real frustrated with myself and hope you'll be kind enough with some good advice.

Last month, I went up after a couple of months no flying...plane already scheduled, work, wx, etc. Went to a neighboring airport for some landings, and the second one was really ugly for no reason, I just botched it. For some reason, it has just shot the hell out of my confidence. I've forced myself to keep flying, but I'm not having fun. I feel clutzy, out of sync, and just on edge. The wx situation today was not that dicey, but I didn't feel competent to fly it to SC to catch up with Dave.

My instructor has been out of pocket or way to busy recently to schedule him. I'll keep trying, but this is driving me nuts! I've flown 10 hrs in the last 3 days trying to work it out, but I still feel like a ditz. Anyone have this problem that they're willing to fess up to, and what did you do about it????

Kaye
 
Quite often I go through times where things just don't seem to "click" for me. Always it has just taken some time to get back in the groove. Don't know what does it, but all of a sudden I am back in the groove.

Thing is you know what you are doing wrong, because you have had the skill set before. just can't seem to put it together for whatever reason. When that happens I don't give up, but I do raise my personnal limits somewhat. That means lower crosswind components, higher ceilings, etc.

Keep at it. Things will click again.

:yes:
 
Everyone has ups and downs in performance. It kinda comes with the territory so accept it and move on. You'll come around. In the meantime, maybe a break is worthwhile rather than trying to "power through". Trying to force the outcome you want while not really able to make it happen effortlessly can lead to greater frustration. It's five o'clock somewhere...have a Merlot on me.
 
I think your first instinct (get with an instructor) was your best bet. Even without knowing your overall experience level, I'd still say that going "a couple of months" without flying can really take the edge off your skills (it sure does mine, and I've been doing this a long time), and often, it's hard to figure out just what's not right without an independent assessment. Just trying to work it out yourself can result in reinforcing a bad habit rather than identifying it. If your regular instructor isn't available, maybe someone at the airport can recommend another CFI who can help.
 
Kaye John knows of what he speaks when he says "we all have our ups and downs" right John.

Kaye you are not experienceing anything that the rest of us haven't from time to time. It happens in aviation, work heck anything. I'm an attorney I go to court and yesterday I couldn't string two words together to save my life.

If you can't get with your CFI pick another one just to get comfortable. Or get together with another POAer in your area to sit right seat. They don't call it knocking the rust off for nothing! This too shall pass:yes:
 
Here's my take. You botched a landing. Everyone botches landings, that's the name of the game.

If you feel uncomfortable with landing now, perhaps some time with a CFI will bolster your confidence, but even with a long break in flying, CFIs aren't really needed to get your sharpness back. Practice does it for ya.

So if you are ok with it, get back out, ASAP and fly some patterns. Take the good with the bad, and you'll start to see improvement. And that will be the ultimate confidence builder
 
SkyHog said:
Here's my take. You botched a landing. Everyone botches landings, that's the name of the game.

If you feel uncomfortable with landing now, perhaps some time with a CFI will bolster your confidence, but even with a long break in flying, CFIs aren't really needed to get your sharpness back. Practice does it for ya.
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"I've flown 10 hrs in the last 3 days trying to work it out, but I still feel like a ditz." That suggests a bit of outside assistance is needed.
 
Kaye,
Part of the reason I bailed on the Glide-a-Thon is that when I went up with an instructor to get instrument current, I didn't like my own performance. I therefore did exactly what Mark suggested and upped my personal limits. I think that between the instructor time I already got and just some old tooling around in the pattern I should be good to go, but until I feel confident, those limits will stay up there.

So, I'll basically reinforce what others have said. Get with an instructor, don't push it, and when you feel comfortable, get some stick time.

And it is my intention to NEVER criticize a pilot for making a safe and conservative choice. Yeah, we've all got to push ourselves at times or we won't grow and improve, but only when it feels "right" to do so.
 
The FBO I deal with has a 60 day limit on currency. It used to be 90. And by that, they just don't want someone coming in on day 59, doing a lap or two around the pattern, then claim they're current. They want to know you really are safe so if you're not flying regularly, they'll ask you take some time with a CFI. It's their insurance.
And really, a few hours with an instructor a year gets you closer to the goal of 20 WINGS.
In this case, you just need to get your air legs back.
 
After a couple months of no flying I would definitely expect to feel like a klutz. I sometimes feel like a klutz when I've been flying the day before. I think you just need to go up and get reacquainted with the plane. If you think you need outside advice, by all means get a CFI or another pilot to go with you. But don't stress out about it as it is perfectly understandable.
 
Do something fun. Check out in a different model. Do a taildragger or a basic trainer. Maybe an little twin dual or a biplane intro. A little diversity in experience will help put things in perspective. And often minimizes the complacency and mindsets common with a familiar aircraft. Right now you associate the plane with a recent bad experience, so try a different plane.

My 2 ¢
 
Cap'nRon is right (again).

First, don't be too hard on yourself. We all go through plateaus from time to time.

Second, go up with a CFI and get a different perspective on the matter.

It doesn't have to be your regular instructor.

A second opinion can often be revealing.
 
Ron Levy said:
I'd still say that going "a couple of months" without flying can really take the edge off your skills (it sure does mine, and I've been doing this a long time),
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If I go two weeks without flying I notice a lot of rust. After three weeks I won't fly with a passenger until after I've done at least one refresher flight and I'm satisfied that I've sufficiently regained my skills.

I've never gone more than 4 weeks without flying. Two months - I'm sure it would take at least a few flights to get comfortable again.

Everyone is different, but here is what I have found is tihe best way for me to shake off the rust. Make multiple individual flights - especially if you go to different fields. Make a full stop landing, park, go into the FBO or go eat, then return and make annother flight. The individual flights can be very short as long as you leave the immediate area, but for me, three or four short individual flights accomplish a lot more than spending all day in the pattern or practicing manouvers.
 
Kaye said:
<snip>

My instructor has been out of pocket or way to busy recently to schedule him. I'll keep trying, but this is driving me nuts! I've flown 10 hrs in the last 3 days trying to work it out, but I still feel like a ditz. Anyone have this problem that they're willing to fess up to, and what did you do about it????
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During the final days before my commercial checkride, I went back and forth on at least one maneuver or another I'd botch. But, I'd always flown steep turns with dang near absolute perfection. A steady 55 degrees and caught my wake every time. Chandelles were just about dead on 85% of the time. Lazy Eight's defied me. They seemed easy but I'd blow those most of the time. Along comes the school's owner to fly with me and help get the ticket done. I did decent Lazy Eights. Pretty decent chandelles. On the steep turn, I was all over the place. It bugged me that I blew what had been such an easy maneuver for me.

The point is I never had a training flight were every maneuver was great, maybe not even within PTS. But, with practice and patience (mostly with myself), I got it done and they were good enough to make it through a checkride. Along comes the checkride and he barely did the minimum flight requirements but had grilled me during the oral and then during procedures. I didn't fly with perfection but I did what was required to work toward that goal. That's what he was looking for.

Relax... practice but don't over do it. It sounded like you're flying a couple hours or more a day in practice. If you're not doing well, that just makes it hard on you and you become more tense. I wouldn't do more than a half dozen landings at a time with flights only about an hour or so. That makes you more tired than you realize, especially if you don't feel you're doing well.

AOPA Flight Training just had a good article on dealing with XW landings. You didn't say wind was an issue but you give the impression with "The wx situation today was not that dicey." Get a CFI and some input on what you're doing and how you're doing it. Smooth it out and then practice. You're probably not as far as off as you feel but just that one bad landing blew your confidence. But whatever you do, don't give up.
 
Have you stopped and thought through the landings?

I've been through the same thing. It's like a golf swing. You go to the instructor, everything's grooved, you hit well (whatever well means to you, for me it's breaking 100:redface:). Then a little something creeps into your grip, or swing , or stance. You make a little adjustment. That leads to another adjustment. And so on. Before you know it your swing's gone to Hades and you've broken half your clubs in frustration.

I had your problem a few weeks ago. Landing after landing. Crap. Parked on the taxiway a bit. Hmm, the runway seems to be speeding by, yet the airspeed indicator shows the right speed at the threshold. I'm botching the flare. Why might that be? Doh, not looking at the far end of the runway. Go back for another try --- bingo!

Think through the process. If you can't identify the flaw, by all means get an impartial 3rd party (i.e. a CFI).
 
Steve said:
A little diversity in experience will help put things in perspective. And often minimizes the complacency and mindsets common with a familiar aircraft.
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LOL Steve. Sometimes diversity can be very humbling. Familiar aircraft are not so much of a problem. Usually.

Kaye, my last klutzlike experience was last weekend when Steve graciously offered to let me fly his airplane. I wanted to try but I knew it would feel foreign to me, not just because it is Romanian, but because I haven't flown a light airplane like that in years (I normally fly business jets). So, I was right, neither the takeoff nor the landing were pretty, but hey, I kept it in the air, it was fun, and I figure I might do better next time. :yes:
 
Kaye said:
Last month, I went up after a couple of months no flying...plane already scheduled, work, wx, etc. Went to a neighboring airport for some landings, and the second one was really ugly for no reason, I just botched it. For some reason, it has just shot the hell out of my confidence. I've forced myself to keep flying, but I'm not having fun. I feel clutzy, out of sync, and just on edge.
I'll keep trying, but this is driving me nuts! I've flown 10 hrs in the last 3 days trying to work it out, but I still feel like a ditz. Anyone have this problem that they're willing to fess up to, and what did you do about it????

Kaye
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Say "S**T" real loud, ask her (the plane) "come on baby, show me some love" and then relax and let the plane fly you to the runway. In other words forget the botched landing. It's sticking in your mind and you know you're gonna screw it up, so you do. Just relax and realize, everyone has a ugly landing now and then, doesn't mean the next one will be.
 
Henning said:
Say "S**T" real loud, ask her (the plane) "come on baby, show me some love" and then relax and let the plane fly you to the runway. In other words forget the botched landing. It's sticking in your mind and you know you're gonna screw it up, so you do. Just relax and realize, everyone has a ugly landing now and then, doesn't mean the next one will be.
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Now that made me laugh! Thanks! Yeah, it's stuck in my mind. I guess instead of apologizing all the time, I just gotta ask for some lovin'.;)
 
Next time? :rolleyes: LOL

I'm sure when you got back in the Hawker you were more comfortable flying it than during your initial session in the Romanian Death Machine. That's all I'm saying. It's good to have something to compare to. It gives you a chance to consider what works in one plane that may not be advantageous in another and point out what you might othewise take for granted sometimes.

As mentioned earlier, it helps to think a landing, a takeoff, or even a whole flight through beforehand. I've been flying for years and still find it hard to sleep the night before a trip, trying to anticipate the entire route. Weather, fuel, routing, airplane condition, airport selection, etc., a single pilot has a lot to consider. Once in the plane its more like a repeat flight than a first time adventure, and it helps me to recognize when things go amiss. Not saying over analyze, just be alert to deviations from the expected (I still have to work at that, myself). This holds true for every phase of a flight, imho. If you don't have a certain expectation determined beforehand you'll never know if you're meeting it.

btw, you still have a lot of block remaining in the IAR. :)


Everskyward said:
LOL Steve. Sometimes diversity can be very humbling. Familiar aircraft are not so much of a problem. Usually.

Kaye, my last klutzlike experience was last weekend when Steve graciously offered to let me fly his airplane. I wanted to try but I knew it would feel foreign to me, not just because it is Romanian, but because I haven't flown a light airplane like that in years (I normally fly business jets). So, I was right, neither the takeoff nor the landing were pretty, but hey, I kept it in the air, it was fun, and I figure I might do better next time. :yes:
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Henning said:
Say "S**T" real loud, ask her (the plane) "come on baby, show me some love" and then relax and let the plane fly you to the runway. In other words forget the botched landing. It's sticking in your mind and you know you're gonna screw it up, so you do. Just relax and realize, everyone has a ugly landing now and then, doesn't mean the next one will be.
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What Henning said.

You may be forcing it a bit. If you botched a landing, and tried to resolve your "klutz" feelings by going around the pattern a zillion times and you're still not landing smoothly... Well, don't do that. Go to the practice area and do some maneuvers, or go for a $100 hamburger or some kind of adventure, or just do whatever. Remind yourself that flying may be difficult but we do it because it's fun. The bottom line is, just make peace with the airplane. Relax, and it'll happen. :yes:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Remind yourself that flying may be difficult but we do it because it's fun. The bottom line is, just make peace with the airplane. Relax, and it'll happen. :yes:
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Luckily, I still land the plane reasonably well, I've only lost my confidence....just waiting for that next ugly landing. I spent those hours a week ago going to fun places. Just couldn't shake the klutzy, edgy feeling, and that's what got me so frustrated and whiny.

Didn't get to fly this past week, but I'm back in the saddle come Thursday. I'm feeling pretty good sitting here on the ground, so maybe that'll follow me back into the airplane. :yes:
 
Kaye said:
Didn't get to fly this past week, but I'm back in the saddle come Thursday. I'm feeling pretty good sitting here on the ground, so maybe that'll follow me back into the airplane. :yes:
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I'm free on Thursday -- not sure what part of VA you're in, but if it's close, slide on down to SBY and I'll ride with you for a couple of trips around the pattern.
 
Ron Levy said:
I'm free on Thursday -- not sure what part of VA you're in, but if it's close, slide on down to SBY and I'll ride with you for a couple of trips around the pattern.
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Thanks, Ron, I appreciate that. I'm at JYO. But Thursday is a destination flight, and if I'm not good with the wx, I'll be driving (man, I hate that "D" word!).
 
Kaye....let me just add to the litany of "I too have botched one".

I did so this past weekend. A nice 150nm flight the wife's family, decent though "firm" landing at a new airport. Nice flight back and a totally botched, 8kt-crosswind landing. I came off centerline, bounced a bit, side-loaded the plane (you could feel it skipping), etc.

My wife just looked at me and said "that was NOT one of your better landings". LOL

I too am beating myself up about it, but in the end I know that I can fly the plane, can land it decently, etc. I just need to get back up and do it again. Of course if I was in a rut (and you seem to think you are) then going up with a CFI is a great idea!
 
I think you'll get more value and confidence with an hour with a CFI than in five hours of solo practice.

I'll be coming off about 90 days without flying anything but sims, so I expect to be great on instruments but not so good on the basics. My preferred way of getting the rust off is to go up for an hour of airwork and an hour of takeoffs and landings with a CFI. Since that's two thirds of the WINGS requirements anyway, I just add a third hour of hoodwork and send in the forms.

In "Cannibal Queen", Steve Coonts talks about the difference between the proficiency he had when he was flying A6s every single day for multiple hours, and the proficiency he had when flying his Stearman several times a week. He was safe and competent in both cases, but he felt he'd acheived a symbiosis with the intruder that he hadn't reached with the Stearman. Those of us who aren't professional pilots may never truly become "one with the airplane" on a regular basis. That doesn't mean we're not safe or competent, however.

So, don't beat yourself up - like a baseball player, we all have streaks and slumps.
 
TMetzinger said:
...like a baseball player, we all have streaks and slumps.
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...and even superstar ballplayers like 3000-hit/400-homer Hall of Famer Cal Ripken turn quickly to their hitting coach when they're having a slump. I remember one time during a slump watching Calvin before the game behind the batting cage with the O's hitting coach hitting tossed golf balls into the padded wall -- he must've done fifty or more swings at them with constant animated instruction from the coach before he went to the cage to hit baseballs.
 
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Its to hard for me to remember the ugly landings so I just remember the good one. Its easier that way:yes:
 
Kaye said:
This is really hard to post in this forum as sometimes ya'll are a little tough. But I'm real frustrated with myself and hope you'll be kind enough with some good advice.

Last month, I went up after a couple of months no flying...plane already scheduled, work, wx, etc. Went to a neighboring airport for some landings, and the second one was really ugly for no reason, I just botched it. For some reason, it has just shot the hell out of my confidence. I've forced myself to keep flying, but I'm not having fun. I feel clutzy, out of sync, and just on edge. The wx situation today was not that dicey, but I didn't feel competent to fly it to SC to catch up with Dave.

My instructor has been out of pocket or way to busy recently to schedule him. I'll keep trying, but this is driving me nuts! I've flown 10 hrs in the last 3 days trying to work it out, but I still feel like a ditz. Anyone have this problem that they're willing to fess up to, and what did you do about it????

Kaye
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Well Kaye, everyone has given you good advice. In reading your post, you only mention the second landing which you couldn't have botched too bad cause your still here and still flying. I think too many people use the perfect landing as a total and complete measure of their flying skill, ability, and performance. What about all of the thousand other things you did well in order to get the plane up and back again? If you feel nervous, like the others said, get yourself a little dual to help your confidence, but I suspect you did a whole lot more right than wrong.
It never ceases to amaze me. You can fly the hardest IFR with all kinds of routing changes, mechanical problems, ATC problems, bad weather, and missed approaches. But bounce one time on landing, and you're a crappy pilot? Hell, I wish I had a nickel for every bad landing I've made.;)
 
My very first landing as a Private Pilot was a rough one! I had two friends with me and I didn't compensate for the extra weight in the back, fell right through my landing flare and banged it down. I can imagine my friends were thinking why did we go up with him!!
I would say everyone has problems every once in a while, I always try to end the day on a good one, but if not I give myself a little break and try to forget all about it. It usually works, and if im still botching them I take Grandpa up(CFII) and he can usually figure it out pretty quick!

Stick with it, good streaks will come just like the bad ones do!

Best,
 
Rudy said:
My very first landing as a Private Pilot was a rough one! I had two friends with me and I didn't compensate for the extra weight in the back, fell right through my landing flare and banged it down. I can imagine my friends were thinking why did we go up with him!!
I would say everyone has problems every once in a while, I always try to end the day on a good one, but if not I give myself a little break and try to forget all about it. It usually works, and if im still botching them I take Grandpa up(CFII) and he can usually figure it out pretty quick!

Stick with it, good streaks will come just like the bad ones do!

Best,
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You state a good case why it's good to take up another student in the back so you can get a feel of a plane with the added weight besides yourself and your CFI. Knowing these things early are good. But, I also wonder if you ran a W&B before you launched. This would make you aware of the changes. It can be a concern with something like a Skyhawk since it's not truly a four-seat airplane for all adults.
 
KennyFlys said:
You state a good case why it's good to take up another student in the back so you can get a feel of a plane with the added weight besides yourself and your CFI. Knowing these things early are good. But, I also wonder if you ran a W&B before you launched. This would make you aware of the changes. It can be a concern with something like a Skyhawk since it's not truly a four-seat airplane for all adults.
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Yes, I did run a weight and balance, I just didn't add the extra speed I needed. I was a brand new pilot and it was just a mistake on my part. It was an example of how sometimes things just don't happened quite right and landings are a little rougher than you would like.

Best,
 
I appreciate you sharing your struggles - it helps me anticipate how to handle the same situation once I solo! I've heard of these things happening and it helps to share with others how we feel about it. I'm not at the level of confidence I need to be yet to solo, but I'm really gaining. So to hear other pilots share experiences, it helps me in building confidence, knowing others have faced the same things!

Keep flying!
 
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