Battery Cable in older Pipers

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texasscout

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I know this topic was gone over and over but my question;
Bogert avaition has the stcd replacement set for a very hefty price just for electrial wire, I did the conversion for the battery box last winter, really want to do this upgrade but have a hard time shelling out that kind of cash,is there another alternitve supplier? What am I missing here?
Marine Grade ?
 
I use welding supply house for copper cable ,well insulated and flexible for marine applications.
 
Marine grade is cheep. This is Aircraft grade stuff. :rolleyes:
WOW ! $400+ for PA-28s. :hairraise:
 
Just a comment...

Replacing the aluminum cable with copper cable that is already the correct length (with the appropriate paperwork) was worth it to me. Part of the reason for the replacement was to improve starting performance. Part of it was saving the labor.

If I was handy fabricating cables, I probably would have gone that route since part of the fun of owning was working on my own aircraft.
 
I have a Warrior that HAD a slow crank, with a good Concorde battery. I looked around at copper cables, off the net or the salvage yards. I ended up going Bogert new for convienence. The 5 or so cables are spec'ed correctly with easy paperwork.

I did let the A&P put them in at annual, yes I paid. It's almost a must do if you have older aluminum cables. My plane now cranks like no tomorrow, NIGHT and DAY difference.
 
That above may be a start, but I think 5 cables of various length came with my Bogert set.

There was a 10% off available without much trouble. I just ordered right from Bogert, same or better than Aircraft Spruce.
 
Couldn't you have some copper cables fabricated?
 
My IA had cable in bulk, we measured what I needed, crimped the ends on then a bit of shrink tubing.
 
James331 said:
Couldn't you have some copper cables fabricated?
Click to expand...

Sure you could. But it is a change to the type design, which has legal ramifications that might end up costing a bunch more than you counted on if some inspector found out. I don't know about the FAA, but here in Canada any change to the electrical system upstream of the bus is a major modification and therefore needs legal approval.

M22759 wire is not cheap. Copper costs these days, and Tefzel insulation isn't cheap either. This cable runs from the battery contactor up under the floor to the engine compartment and terminates at the starter contactor and is tapped off there to the bus. There is NO fuse or breaker anywhere in that circuit, so you don't want cheap insulation.

Aluminum cable oxidizes inside the crimp terminals. That presents a resistance that slows the starter, but can also generate enough heat to start a fire at one end or the other. I think Bogert has a bit of an article on it.

The Cessna Cardinal had aluminum cables, too. I replaced a set with the STD'd Bogerts. Lots of work under the floor in that tiny space, routing the cable through and getting scratched up good. The aluminum cable had been cut wide open by the bolt on the cowl flap cable attachment. Must have been causing some strange electrical issues at times.

Edit:
Appendix A to Part 43—Major Alterations, Major Repairs, and Preventive Maintenance

(a) Major alterations—(1) Airframe major alterations. Alterations of the following parts and alterations of the following types, when not listed in the aircraft specifications issued by the FAA, are airframe major alterations:



(xii) Changes to the basic design of the fuel, oil, cooling, heating, cabin pressurization, electrical, hydraulic, de-icing, or exhaust systems.
 
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Replacing a wire is not a major alteration in any why shape or form. Now, if you buy them they must be approved by pma, STC, or that route. But an owner can fabricate them by law a long as data is available and the mil spec will meet that requirement.

Bob
 
Look up the Piper service bulletin concerning aluminum cables. It spells out exactly what size wire and what cable ends you will need. Order materials from Aircraft Spruce and make up your own cables to the lenghts you need . Obviously you will need an A and P to supervise and aprove the installation. This is easy to do and materials cost is about $200. This will take a full day to do. If you do not have a crimper for the cables take them to your local auto parts store and they can crimp them for you for a couple of bucks. Helped a friend do this several months ago. The service bulletin serves as aproved data for the FAA to do this modification. It will be written up by the A and P something like ,
Complied with Piper Service Bulettin number xxxx by replacing all battery cables with 2/0 tefzel cable and terminal ends part number xxxxxx.

The Piper Bulletin number is 836A
 
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sourdough44 said:
I have a Warrior that HAD a slow crank, with a good Concorde battery. I looked around at copper cables, off the net or the salvage yards. I ended up going Bogert new for convienence. The 5 or so cables are spec'ed correctly with easy paperwork.

I did let the A&P put them in at annual, yes I paid. It's almost a must do if you have older aluminum cables. My plane now cranks like no tomorrow, NIGHT and DAY difference.
Click to expand...


Agreed...

I did the upgrade to my 75' Warrior back in 1983 along with the battery box AD mod to keep the rear seat springs from shorting out on the battery..

Piper AD kit was a piece of plywood, some bolts and instructions.... IIRC the cost was some stupid amount like 200 bucks..

I started to hate AD's after that goat roping...:mad2::mad2:
 
I have a relative almost done with a 'deer tower' in MI. A few years ago the plan was to put one on our camp property. I ended up buying a 'Redneck' elevated blind, $2400 or so.

Just the other day the relative said 'I should of just bought another Redneck Blind'. He's closing in on the cost of the low maintenance prefab blind, while still working to finish. All the treated lumber, windows, roofing, etc. add up.

I did see that it seems the price of the Bogert cables went up some. That said if the projected savings don't break $200 or so I'd just look for a sale and go with prefab Bogert cables.
 
don't forget to update the W&B. Copper cables are a bit heavier than the aluminum.
 
Bob Noel said:
don't forget to update the W&B. Copper cables are a bit heavier than the aluminum.
Click to expand...

Yup..

I has been over 30+ years, but I remember we had to update the W&B. Altho I think it was a math calc as I don't think we put it on scales.:confused:
 
Re: Battery Cable in older Pipers UPDATE

OK,
Here is what I did;
I found the wire on A/S along withe the Cof C paperwork,
Actually Wicks was cheaper but just mention the Wicks price and they will match it, what I needed was 13 feet, this would do the battery to the Solenoid and then the 33" section from the solenoid to starter, now I need the Lugs, The wire worked out to about $70 plus shipping, I THEN found a listing on EBAY a just removed Bogert cable WITH STC for...$75,
No brainer there, part arrived today, I pulled the old wire out( New swear words BTW ) wire was longer than what I needed by a foot, I still needed the section to the starter, so a trip to NAPA, yes, I know, non compliance, they made up a section, matched the size, gauge and color, now Im in compliance, its a fricking battery cable for Gods sake. hooked it all up and DAMN, the prop swings like a cieling fan!
 
Dan Thomas said:
Sure you could. But it is a change to the type design, which has legal ramifications that might end up costing a bunch more than you counted on if some inspector found out. I don't know about the FAA, but here in Canada any change to the electrical system upstream of the bus is a major modification and therefore needs legal approval.

M22759 wire is not cheap. Copper costs these days, and Tefzel insulation isn't cheap either. This cable runs from the battery contactor up under the floor to the engine compartment and terminates at the starter contactor and is tapped off there to the bus. There is NO fuse or breaker anywhere in that circuit, so you don't want cheap insulation.

Aluminum cable oxidizes inside the crimp terminals. That presents a resistance that slows the starter, but can also generate enough heat to start a fire at one end or the other. I think Bogert has a bit of an article on it.
Click to expand...
Oxidized crimps are one possible issue but if that was the whole problem with aluminum wire in aircraft all you'd need to do is replace the terminals after cleaning the bare wire. The main reason that aluminum wires need replacing is that vibration produces micro-fractures in the wire strands which can dramaticaly increase the resistance of the wire over time.

Edit:
Appendix A to Part 43—Major Alterations, Major Repairs, and Preventive Maintenance

(a) Major alterations—(1) Airframe major alterations. Alterations of the following parts and alterations of the following types, when not listed in the aircraft specifications issued by the FAA, are airframe major alterations:



(xii) Changes to the basic design of the fuel, oil, cooling, heating, cabin pressurization, electrical, hydraulic, de-icing, or exhaust systems.
Click to expand...
I hear this way to often from A&Ps who should know better but think that any change or addition to the electrical system is a major repair or major modification, but you are wrong if you really think that replacing a piece of aluminum wire with an equivalent piece of copper wire is major. Changing from a 14v system to a 28v system, converting from a single bus to a dual bus system, or maybe even replacing a generator with an alternator would be major mods. But replacing a piece of wire? No way is that a change to the basic design any more than replacing a rubber fuel hose with a long life Teflon hose would be.
 
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