BasicMed and Safety Pilots

[AggieMike88]

So I agree with many that the statutory language for Basic Med kinda fell flat when it came to the role of the Safety Pilot. From the FAQ that the FAA published (https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med/media/basicmed_faq.pdf):

Q25: Can I use BasicMed to act as a safety pilot, rather than holding a medical?

A: Only if you’re acting as PIC while performing the duties of safety pilot. The
statutory language prescribing BasicMed said it only applies to people acting as PIC.
BasicMed cannot be exercised by safety pilots who are not acting as PIC but are required
crewmembers.​

So I understand what the language says, but how is it to be applied in the practical real world?

1. Do the two pilots just agree that the right seater is PIC? Or is there another formal action to be done?
2. Once that happens, what duties/role does the right seater have as PIC that's different from just occupying the seat? What specifically does "acting as PIC while performing the duties of safety pilot" mean?
3. Who gets to log the PIC time? ( No PoA thread about PIC is complete without some argument over logging the time)

 

[NoHeat]

Wow, that FAA document lists 52 FAQs, and lots of them are complicated. And you've identified one that is really confusing.

Another confusing one that's unclear to me is how do you choose, at a given moment, whether you are operating under Class III or BasicMed, if you have both, as many of us will, at least for a while.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Acting as PIC means having the 91.3 responsibility and authority.

If the safety pilot is acting as PIC, he still can't log it as such...only the pilot under the hood can log PIC (assuming he's the one doing the flying, which isn't a very big assumption in this case).

As far as the language of the reg, if the FAA had gone against the language specified by Congress, we wouldn't have BasicMed yet.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Another confusing one that's unclear to me is how do you choose, at a given moment, whether you are operating under Class III or BasicMed, if you have both, as many of us will, at least for a while.

I would assume the same way someone with a first class medical chooses whether to operate with first, second, or third class medical privileges; LSA no medical; or glider/balloon no medical.

 

[citizen5000]

If you have a current 3rd class medical then that supersedes BasicMed since the privileges for the 3rd class are a super set of the privileges for BasicMed. My assumption is you will want to carry your medical cert until it expires despite also signing up for BasicMed.

 

[MauleSkinner]

If you have a current 3rd class medical then that supersedes BasicMed since the privileges for the 3rd class are a super set of the privileges for BasicMed.

So if you fly an airplane that qualifies for BasicMed and leave your third class (or higher) medical at home, you're in violation?

 

[AggieMike88]

Acting as PIC means having the 91.3 responsibility and authority.

Thanks for the specific citation... I'll go look that up and refresh the temporal lobe.

 

[MassPilot]

So if you fly an airplane that qualifies for BasicMed and leave your third class (or higher) medical at home, you're in violation?

No. citizen5000 is incorrect. You can choose at beginning of the flight whether to fly under BasicMed or fly under your medical certificate. You cannot change mid-flight. You can even ignore restrictions on your medical certificate if you choose to fly under BasicMed that flight.

 

[dmspilot]

If the safety pilot is acting as PIC, he still can't log it as such

Why not? I don't see how BasicMed affects one's ability to log time.

 

[citizen5000]

No. citizen5000 is incorrect. You can choose at beginning of the flight whether to fly under BasicMed or fly under your medical certificate. You cannot change mid-flight. You can even ignore restrictions on your medical certificate if you choose to fly under BasicMed that flight.

If you have a current 3rd class medical why would you leave your proof at home whether flying in a Cessna 172 or hop into an SLSA? What is the purpose?

 

[MassPilot]

No idea. I'm legal for BasicMed and I will continue to carry my medical certificate until the end of the month when it expires, but I could fly without it if I wanted to.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Why not? I don't see how BasicMed affects one's ability to log time.

It doesn't...someone who's not sole manipulator of the controls (I assume he's not acting as safety pilot for himself) can't log PIC at this level.

 

[MauleSkinner]

If you have a current 3rd class medical why would you leave your proof at home whether flying in a Cessna 172 or hop into an SLSA? What is the purpose?

Getting you to support your answer.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

You can act as PIC as safety pilot, not log it, and let the other pilot manipulate the controls. Yes, that means if there is a mid-air while the other guy is under the hood, you'll be on the hook as PIC. At that point I think you'll have other considerations on your mind anyway. It also means if you violate airspace, it will be on you too. So, you can be the safety pilot, but make sure you trust yourself and the other guy to not do anything stupid.

 

[dmspilot]

It doesn't...someone who's not sole manipulator of the controls (I assume he's not acting as safety pilot for himself) can't log PIC at this level.

You have GOT to be kidding me. Do a search.

 

[NoHeat]

You can choose at beginning of the flight whether to fly under BasicMed or fly under your medical certificate. You cannot change mid-flight.

Where did you find that?

The FAQ file, linked in the OP (and revised today!), just says this:

Q6: Can I exercise BasicMed and hold a medical certificate at the same time?
A: Yes. If you are operating under BasicMed, then you must comply with the BasicMed operating limitations (e.g. flying only within the U.S. and at or less than 250 knots). When operating under BasicMed, you are not exercising the privileges of your medical certificate.
​

I also checked the AOPA FAQs, which only said this:

If you hold a valid medical certificate and also meet the requirements of BasicMed, you can choose to fly under the BasicMed rules.​

 

[Clip4]

Wow, that FAA document lists 52 FAQs, and lots of them are complicated. And you've identified one that is really confusing.

Another confusing one that's unclear to me is how do you choose, at a given moment, whether you are operating under Class III or BasicMed, if you have both, as many of us will, at least for a while.

I think what they are saying is a basic med holder cannot file an IFR flight plan, have a class 3 holder in the right seat and transfer PIC status before climbing through FL 18.

 

[Brad Z]

So I agree with many that the statutory language for Basic Med kinda fell flat when it came to the role of the Safety Pilot. From the FAQ that the FAA published (https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med/media/basicmed_faq.pdf):

Q25: Can I use BasicMed to act as a safety pilot, rather than holding a medical?

A: Only if you’re acting as PIC while performing the duties of safety pilot. The
statutory language prescribing BasicMed said it only applies to people acting as PIC.
BasicMed cannot be exercised by safety pilots who are not acting as PIC but are required
crewmembers.​

So I understand what the language says, but how is it to be applied in the practical real world?

1. Do the two pilots just agree that the right seater is PIC? Or is there another formal action to be done?
2. Once that happens, what duties/role does the right seater have as PIC that's different from just occupying the seat? What specifically does "acting as PIC while performing the duties of safety pilot" mean?
3. Who gets to log the PIC time? ( No PoA thread about PIC is complete without some argument over logging the time)

1. In order to act as a safety pilot under BasicMed, the safety pilot agrees to ACT as the pilot in command (PIC). This is a very common arrangement, as the safety pilot who is acting as PIC is also a required cremember, and this able to LOG PIC time...many time builders do this so both the sole manipulator of the controls and the safety pilot Dan LOG PIC time.

2. The PIC has the responsibility and sole authority for the flight(91.3). It should always be clear who is ACTING as PIC. That should be part of your pre-flight brief.

3. This has been discussed a billion times here but both pilots can LOG PIC time. See 61.51.

 

[MassPilot]

Where did you find that?

The FAQ file, linked in the OP (and revised today!), just says this:

Q6: Can I exercise BasicMed and hold a medical certificate at the same time?
A: Yes. If you are operating under BasicMed, then you must comply with the BasicMed operating limitations (e.g. flying only within the U.S. and at or less than 250 knots). When operating under BasicMed, you are not exercising the privileges of your medical certificate.
​

I also checked the AOPA FAQs, which only said this:

If you hold a valid medical certificate and also meet the requirements of BasicMed, you can choose to fly under the BasicMed rules.​

Interesting. I have the older version of the faq and it says this:

Q: Can I exercise BasicMed and hold a medical certificate at the same time? A: Yes. If you are operating under BasicMed, then you must comply with the BasicMed operating limitations (e.g. flying only within the U.S. and at or less than 250 knots). When operating under BasicMed, you are not exercising the privileges of your medical certificate. You can’t operate under BasicMed and switch to operating using your medical, or vice versa, during flight.

 

[Brad Z]

Wow, that FAA document lists 52 FAQs, and lots of them are complicated. And you've identified one that is really confusing.

Another confusing one that's unclear to me is how do you choose, at a given moment, whether you are operating under Class III or BasicMed, if you have both, as many of us will, at least for a while.

These are all questions that have been asked at some point in time. Some are more frequent than others, but we figured if it's been asked once, we add it to the FAQ.

The issue of making a determination for the flight is based on 61.113(I)(2) which says "The flight, including each portion of the flight, is not carried out..." it is exactly what congress said, and we put it in the reg text exactly as prescribed. I'm not sure why Congress would care but that's how they wrote it. Realistically, most folks who hold a valid medical certificate will fly under the medical certificate, even if they qualify for BasicMed. That will be the case for me on Friday as I'm doing my annual physical with my doc so I figured I'd go through the process. It does leave the door open for me to operate under BasicMed if I leave my medical certificate home but have my drivers license on me.

 

[Brad Z]

Acting as PIC means having the 91.3 responsibility and authority.

If the safety pilot is acting as PIC, he still can't log it as such...only the pilot under the hood can log PIC (assuming he's the one doing the flying, which isn't a very big assumption in this case).

As far as the language of the reg, if the FAA had gone against the language specified by Congress, we wouldn't have BasicMed yet.

Not true. The safety pilot can log the time he spent as a required crewmember as PIC. See 61.51(e)(1)(iii).

You're absolutely correct on the last paragraph.

 

[Brad Z]

If you have a current 3rd class medical then that supersedes BasicMed since the privileges for the 3rd class are a super set of the privileges for BasicMed. My assumption is you will want to carry your medical cert until it expires despite also signing up for BasicMed.

Nope. You san use either BasicMed or your medical certificate. BasicMed is an ALTERNATIVE to the medical certification process. It's not a 4th class medical.

 

[Brad Z]

So if you fly an airplane that qualifies for BasicMed and leave your third class (or higher) medical at home, you're in violation?

Nope.

 

[Brad Z]

No. citizen5000 is incorrect. You can choose at beginning of the flight whether to fly under BasicMed or fly under your medical certificate. You cannot change mid-flight. You can even ignore restrictions on your medical certificate if you choose to fly under BasicMed that flight.

That is technically true, however 61.53(b) still applies, and if your situation hasn't changed you might have a hard time arguing that you don't know of a medical condition that could affect you ability to safely fly the aircraft.

 

[Brad Z]

I think what they are saying is a basic med holder cannot file an IFR flight plan, have a class 3 holder in the right seat and transfer PIC status before climbing through FL 18.

You can change PIC in flight, but the conditions of the entire flight have to qualify for BasicMed. It's kinda stupid, nobody likes it and it's most unenforceable, but it's in the reg.

 

[MauleSkinner]

You have GOT to be kidding me. Do a search.

You have GOT to be kidding me...how about instead of a search I go to the source...

See 61.51(e)(1)(iii).

I stand corrected.

 

[Brad Z]

I stand corrected.

This is pretty common. A lot of time building programs send off two instrument rated pilots on XCs and they trade off as safety pilot and sole manipulator of the controls, so they can both log flight time.*

*the safety pilot cannot log the time when the view limiting device is off, so they can't log XC during that segment, since only one pilot can a take off or landing at a time and no one is landing with a hood on (no I don't want to hear about the time so and so did...)

 

[Clip4]

?

You can change PIC in flight, but the conditions of the entire flight have to qualify for BasicMed. It's kinda stupid, nobody likes it and it's most unenforceable, but it's in the reg.

If you are basic med, file and accept a clearance above 18 it is enforceable.

 

[Brad Z]

?


If you are basic med, file and accept a clearance above 18 it is enforceable.

Sure, but if you and I went flying on a long cross country, and I flew the first half of the flight under BasicMed, and you are flying under a medical certificate and flew the second half, I'd technically be in violation if you later firewalled it past 250kias and climbed above 18k MSL on your portion of the flight, since it is all considered the same flight if we ever landed. Like I said, it doesn't really make sense and is not particularly enforceable unless there was later an incident and the facts came out. Even still, I suspect the FAA enforcement attorneys would probably find something else to violate an airman on if something happened.