Baron owners...inputs on what to buy

[Chris Dickens]

Have you considered a Cirrus? For the question of what to do when the engine quits, the chute and its success are persuasive for many spouses. It's good for your mission of 3 people on trips of 300-400nm. Pulling the chute over water in the Bahamas has been done, with a good outcome.

The Cirrus is certainly fast. But the chute doesn't work in every case, and putting one into the drink around the Bahamas might keep people alive but the airplane is done. Versus flying a Baron to a runway somewhere and getting it fixed.

 

[tspear]

The Cirrus is certainly fast. But the chute doesn't work in every case, and putting one into the drink around the Bahamas might keep people alive but the airplane is done. Versus flying a Baron to a runway somewhere and getting it fixed.

And the inverse is true also. There are many situations where the Baron twin aspect fails and the chute works.

Tim

 

[PA31T2]

I realize this is about the BE-55 / BE-58 aircraft but have you considered the Cessna 340, You stated 3 passengers and 300-400 miles with pressurization a plus. I found the 340 to be great with 3 passengers plus the air stair makes getting in and out easier than climbing on the wing. I would think that a 340 would be slightly less to operate than a 58P. Just an idea to consider even though you seem to be set on the Baron.

 

[Chris Dickens]

And the inverse is true also. There are many situations where the Baron twin aspect fails and the chute works.

Tim

Bottom line, if you use the chute the airplane is likely done and it's going to be an insurance claim to find a new airplane. Aside from an onboard fire or a structural failure, the Baron will continue on and successfully land and the airplane is likely repairable.

A chute won't really work for a fire, and it's not likely to work for a sudden structural failure (it's worth a try but if a wing comes off that chute's probably not going to save you). I've flown a B55 with myself and another MEI who weighs around 250 lbs (as much as my wife and daughter combined) plus a full bag of fuel...and on one engine it could still climb at a reasonable rate. Maybe the only place where the other engine might not be enough is around high terrain like the Rockies.

Again, the Cirrus is great for some people. But I've got a ton of ME time and I'm very comfortable flying ME aircraft, particular one that will actually continue to fly under most conditions with an engine failure.

Comparing a Cirrus to a Seminole or Duchess would be a better argument because if you lose a motor while loaded down in one of those airplanes and at best you're gonna just increase your forced landing range.

 

[Chris Dickens]

I realize this is about the BE-55 / BE-58 aircraft but have you considered the Cessna 340, You stated 3 passengers and 300-400 miles with pressurization a plus. I found the 340 to be great with 3 passengers plus the air stair makes getting in and out easier than climbing on the wing. I would think that a 340 would be slightly less to operate than a 58P. Just an idea to consider even though you seem to be set on the Baron.

I've heard the 58P cost less to operate than a 340...or that they are about the same. I like the Twin Cessnas...but seems they run about $700/800 per hour. I could probably get away with that but I'd rather spend less on an airplane!

 

[tspear]

Bottom line, if you use the chute the airplane is likely done and it's going to be an insurance claim to find a new airplane. Aside from an onboard fire or a structural failure, the Baron will continue on and successfully land and the airplane is likely repairable.

A chute won't really work for a fire, and it's not likely to work for a sudden structural failure (it's worth a try but if a wing comes off that chute's probably not going to save you). I've flown a B55 with myself and another MEI who weighs around 250 lbs (as much as my wife and daughter combined) plus a full bag of fuel...and on one engine it could still climb at a reasonable rate. Maybe the only place where the other engine might not be enough is around high terrain like the Rockies.

Again, the Cirrus is great for some people. But I've got a ton of ME time and I'm very comfortable flying ME aircraft, particular one that will actually continue to fly under most conditions with an engine failure.

Comparing a Cirrus to a Seminole or Duchess would be a better argument because if you lose a motor while loaded down in one of those airplanes and at best you're gonna just increase your forced landing range.

Chris,

You might want to look into the this a bit more:

• Many Cirrus with a chute pull have been placed back in service. What matters is economics and the value of the plane. Not sure currently, but a few years ago any Cirrus valued over roughly 250K USD would normally be placed back in service (I was curious and asked our insurance broker).
• From an ADM perspective, considering the plane is owned by the insurance company at point of significant failure actually reduces or eliminates the pilot making rash decisions based on the possible financial impacts.
• Look at the insurance rates, single engine piston for the same value as the twin are still cheaper to insure. This is one of the few only proxies we have for data to determine which is safer statistically due to MIF.
• Actually, if you lose the wing in a Cirrus, the chute might potentially save you. The reason is the chute is not connected to the wings, the only question is if the plane gets wrapped in the chute or exceed the limits of it. Such a structural failure in the Baron is a death sentence. In either case, this is a rather silly example; especially considering the extremely high number of structural failures of both planes in the NTSB database. (yes, I am being cheeky, but I could not resist).
• In terms of MEI, with only two crew members on board a Baron is far below MTOW. This allows the plane to perform much better. At which point, you are actually very likely limiting the usefulness of the plane due to a reduced MTOW restriction. Can it still do the OPs mission, likely, but it becomes a much more marginal plane in terms of utility.

If you want cheeky; the second engine is only their to provide you with power to the scene of the crash.

I owned an Aerostar for a few years, and still dream of getting one again. However, the Aerostar, the like the Baron, and many older twins in the price range have had steadily rising costs to maintain the plane. You see more threads than I recall a decade ago about new strange gremlins which are hard to resolve and require a fair amount of detective work. What I think is making this situation worse is some of the best AP/IAs are retiring and we are losing the knowledge base along with unexpected new items which keep popping up by keeping these planes in service much longer than likely design life.

Almost a decade ago when I bought the Aerostar, I was looking around $300 an hour to operate it. A Cirrus SR22 was around $100 for operational costs (just variable items: fuel, oil, MX, insurance, IRANs parts, anything time based). The recent numbers for the partnership I just sold out of for a Cirrus SR22 N/A are just under $150. A friend is budgeting this year $600 per hour for his Baron, and recent posts on an Aerostar thread are between $600-750 per hour.

Tim

 

[Chris Dickens]

The Cirrus is likely a more economical airplane. But I disagree about the worn-out "second engine is there only to take you to the scene of the crash." I've had about 7 engine failures over my career in ME aircraft and every time we've landed on a runway safe and sound. There are a few scenarios where things can get dicey, but that's true for any airplane. Some piston twins, the second engine isn't going to do much, but most of those airplanes are primarily used as trainers anyways. Barons will certainly continue to fly on one engine under most conditions.

In any case, I like Beech products. If money were no obstacle I'd buy a King Air 350 over any other airframe.

 

[tspear]

@Chris Dickens

Hence why I said cheeky.
And yes, I prefer twins. If budget allowed, I would prefer twin turbines....

Tim

 

[TCABM]

Have you considered a Cirrus? For the question of what to do when the engine quits, the chute and its success are persuasive for many spouses. It's good for your mission of 3 people on trips of 300-400nm. Pulling the chute over water in the Bahamas has been done, with a good outcome.

Let’s not muddy the waters on this. Standard POA answer is Bonanza. OP wants and needs a twin, therefore Twin Bonanza. Or better.

 

[schmookeeg]

Barons rule. Just got dealt this card over the rockies near Taos. May be a month of phonecalls and nonsense, but at least I am not goin all donner party right now in the snow

 

[robin ardoin]

Barons rule. Just got dealt this card over the rockies near Taos. May be a month of phonecalls and nonsense, but at least I am not goin all donner party right now in the snow

How did you not crash??? I mean, it’s a twin!!! LOL. Glad you put it down safely.

 

[eman1200]

Barons rule. Just got dealt this card over the rockies near Taos. May be a month of phonecalls and nonsense, but at least I am not goin all donner party right now in the snow

ouch

 

[Chris Dickens]

Barons rule. Just got dealt this card over the rockies near Taos. May be a month of phonecalls and nonsense, but at least I am not goin all donner party right now in the snow

This is why I want a Baron.

I did survival school in northern Washington state in November. It sucked.

 

[TCABM]

This is why I want a Baron.

I did survival school in northern Washington state in November. It sucked.

I was there in January. That didn’t suck, but I like the snow. RT and advanced beatings; that sucked.

 

[Chris Dickens]

I was there in January. That didn’t suck, but I like the snow. RT and advanced beatings; that sucked.

I had the choice to go on a deployment to Afghanistan that required I attend the advanced beatings class...I turned it down and went on a normal squadron deployment to Kuwait. While there, the guy who accepted that deployment let me know they changed the deployment location last minute...instead of Afghanistan, they were going to spend 120 days in Curacao. FML, lol. But advanced beatings didn't seem like a good time, so there's that.

 

[iamtheari]

Barons rule. Just got dealt this card over the rockies near Taos. May be a month of phonecalls and nonsense, but at least I am not goin all donner party right now in the snow

Product review for the Baron: Airplane comes with limited dining options. Would not buy again.