Banner Towing

I've seen plenty of banners towed but never picked up. It's scary enough knowing top cruise is somewhere barely over touchdown speed, about 50 Kts. I don't even want to think about all the stress on that airframe when it grabs the banner. I can't help but picture some scenario where the tail stays behind, the engine keeps on going an the pilot is stuck hanging... for a brief moment in time.
 
At one point in my live I spent many Saturdays working the pickup crew....but I've never sat in the plane. It was fun to watch.
 
KennyFlys said:
Make sure Leah buys some insurance on ya first. No reason why she should be financially miserable as well after you're gone. :D
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shed probably be better off financially. wouldnt have to buy me supper or drinks any more. seriously, banner towing is just another way to make a little money with your airplane. of course it comes with its risks, just like anything else. just dont be a moron, know the limitations, and you will probably be fine.
 
KennyFlys said:
I've seen plenty of banners towed but never picked up. It's scary enough knowing top cruise is somewhere barely over touchdown speed, about 50 Kts. I don't even want to think about all the stress on that airframe when it grabs the banner. I can't help but picture some scenario where the tail stays behind, the engine keeps on going an the pilot is stuck hanging... for a brief moment in time.
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That very thing happened to a Chicago independent banner guy in his 150. I've been told that after he tore the tail off he rolled down the runway, got out when it stopped and dusted himself off. There was nary a report on the incident.

I suppose it helps that not only are you low at pickup, you're going really, really slow.

I saw the 150 with a brand new shiny tail. It's since been painted to match.
 
mikea said:
That very thing happened to a Chicago independent banner guy in his 150. I've been told that after he tore the tail off he rolled down the runway, got out when it stopped and dusted himself off. There was nary a report on the incident.

I suppose it helps that not only are you low at pickup, you're going really, really slow.

I saw the 150 with a brand new shiny tail. It's since been painted to match.
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1st rule of banner tow. Don't use a C150.
 
yea, as Henning says, Tube frame is good if you are towing. SuperDuper Cub all the way. Our 150 hp cub has over 20k hrs on the airframe and most of it is from towing gliders and banners. we joke that its a foot long than it should be but the real important thing is that it HASNT stretched. strong airframe.
 
I would love to someday pull them....Preferably in something like a Super Cub.
 
gibbons said:
Anyone here have any experience doing any banner towing?
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Only when I see them far below me on the lake front or when I was taxing at C81 and they guy did a pick up and went right over my plane as the banner was being picked up from the ground and scared the bejesus out of me.
 
Here's a suitable topic to pull me out of lurker status.

I towed banners in the nineties. We used a Scout and a modified Bird Dog (Ector super mountaineer). Probably the most fun I've ever had flying was when I towed banners, although not very profitable.
 
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Probably from some sort of hook attached to the aircraft:cheerswine:
Sorry couldn't resist.
 
I have never done it, but I have watched quite a few pickups. Looks like fun.

... did I say that? :rolleyes:
 
FLYIN' LION said:
, although not very profitable.
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Ah the master of understatement. I never made a dime. Although it was ok work, I got to look at a lot of bikini babes on the beaches of San Diego, it could get pretty hot, noisy and stuffy in there.
 
gibbons said:
Great! Welcome to POA. Where did you tow?
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I was living in Michigan at the time, so mostly MSU games and lots of trips to Chicago. I had a few flights around Cleveland and one trip down to the INDY 500.

I towed during the early to mid nineties, but I haven't flown any in the past five years since I stopped get paid for it. I'm getting back into it soon, hence my presence here.

About my moniker, I am a Detroit Lions fan (I know, I know) and I always liked the name of the half-time, Lion-shaped blimp, The Flying Lion. It at least seems appropriate.

Does this qualify as an introduction? I couldn't find a specific area of the forums for introductions.


Jason
 
docmirror said:
Ah the master of understatement. I never made a dime. Although it was ok work, I got to look at a lot of bikini babes on the beaches of San Diego, it could get pretty hot, noisy and stuffy in there.
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We towed over downhill ski resorts for a season, and that was very cold. anyone familiar with Citabrias or Super Cubs can attest to that. For the most part, Michigan summers are pretty tame.
 
docmirror said:
Ah the master of understatement. I never made a dime. Although it was ok work, I got to look at a lot of bikini babes on the beaches of San Diego, it could get pretty hot, noisy and stuffy in there.
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noisy? I'm afriad to ask...
 
super cubs and the like are not particularly soundproof. uncowl them and take the doors window off you get a lot of noise and a lot of wind blowing around inside.
 
I towed with a Citabria and a super Cub. Both were tube and fabric, and not a lot of soundproofing. If you took off the headseat while towing, it was plenty loud. I never towed with the window/door off cause it caused more drag that way. Most of my tows were in the Citabria.
 
yea occasionally i get over to the dark, powered, side of aviation. even have dragged some stuff around the sky too!
 
no, but that sounds like an interesteing way to launch. maybe an airlift via National Guard Chinook. or perhaps we could just wheel the glider into the back of a C17 climb up to 20k feet or so and then just shove it out the back! that'd be exciting!
 
tonycondon said:
no, but that sounds like an interesteing way to launch. maybe an airlift via National Guard Chinook. or perhaps we could just wheel the glider into the back of a C17 climb up to 20k feet or so and then just shove it out the back! that'd be exciting!
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I'd buy a ticket to watch! :)
 
tonycondon said:
yea, as Henning says, Tube frame is good if you are towing. SuperDuper Cub all the way. Our 150 hp cub has over 20k hrs on the airframe and most of it is from towing gliders and banners. we joke that its a foot long than it should be but the real important thing is that it HASNT stretched. strong airframe.
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I've been considering a Piper Brave (Pawnee w/400hp IO 720) to contract out to towing operations.
 
Henning said:
I've been considering a Piper Brave (Pawnee w/400hp IO 720) to contract out to towing operations.
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Should be a few of those floating around these days. A lot of spray operators moved up to turbines this year (in the midwest at least), thus putting a lot of 'small' 6-bangers on the market. Of course.. not sure how keen you are on the idea of buying a flown-out spray plane for a tow plane. ha!
 
400 hp in a pawnee is pretty overkill really for towing gliders. unless you want to pull like 10 big 2 seat schweizers at a time. the 235 hp pawnees are pretty widely used out west at high DA's and are highly sought after. 400 hp pawnee would probably be great for banners. hell i bet you could pull a love letter with that kind of horsepower
 
tonycondon said:
400 hp in a pawnee is pretty overkill really for towing gliders. unless you want to pull like 10 big 2 seat schweizers at a time. the 235 hp pawnees are pretty widely used out west at high DA's and are highly sought after. 400 hp pawnee would probably be great for banners. hell i bet you could pull a love letter with that kind of horsepower
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It's the big "V" billboards that pay the money. As to gliders, it depends on how many gliders there are to tow in a day. 400hp will get a heck of a climb rate.
 
i dont know of any places where towing more than one glider at a time is the norm.
 
tonycondon said:
i dont know of any places where towing more than one glider at a time is the norm.
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I wasn't refering to multiple gliders, rather quicker up and down times. I really wasn't to concerned with glider tows anyway (what do people pay for a tow anyway?) but rather the big billboard banners.
 
at our club, we pay 1.60 every hundred feet. commercial operators will charge more as they are trying to make money. the nearest commercial operator to here charges about 40 bucks for a 2000 foot tow i think.

while your 400 hp pawnee would get the glider up and down quicker there would be a breaking point vs maintenance cost and tow time. I think that 400 hp would be past that point. would be pretty hard on that engine to get all those quick full power to idle cycles and it would only take one pilot to really screw it up. plus it would burn a ton of gas. overhaul would be more expensive.
 
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