Unit74
Final Approach
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Unit74
Yep... JP Morgan Chase now.
Bank 'Fraud Detection' and Flying
- Thread starter petrolero
- Start date
Yep... JP Morgan Chase now.
What is wrong with using the card as debit? can't be much worse than gas station Atm machines.
Since your debit card hits your bank account, a compromise there is a much bigger PIA than if one of your credit cards is compromised.
I use my debit card at one of my bank's ATMs; occasionally at another bank's, if I have to. I do look for skimmers, if it's not a machine that ingests the card.
But definitely not/not at retail locations, not at a gas station ATM (or a gas station pump), or really, any retail location, for that matter.
My debit card is a debit card only - separate credit card, same bank. Bogus credit card charges are pretty easy to clear up. Someone wipes out your checking account, the hassle level is much, much greater.
But each to his own - no denying the convenience of using a debit card for retail, and if that fits in your risk tolerance range, that's cool.
You might think about automated debits from your bank accounts, for things like gym memberships, phone bills, insurance. Not something I'm up for, for sure. Not that the businesses you're dealing with are crooked - just their employees (occasionally), or the shaky IT infrastructure they have in place.
If you pay a bill over the phone, using your bank account number, you might consider opting out of them keeping it on file "for your convenience".
There are a few other low-hassle tactics that protect you a bit more. . .
Chase was locking out cards in '06. I was moving 900 miles and never got out of the state before they denied my card for gas purchase. A phone call assured them it was me and card was immediately reactivated. No problem. Learned a good lesson that day. From now on when traveling I call all my card companies to let them know I'm on the move. Have never had a problem since. And I NEVER use my card as a debit -- too easy for skimmers to drain my account before I even know it.
BoA is the worse. Quit doing business with them in the 90's.
BoA is the worse. Quit doing business with them in the 90's.
WhiskeyPapa
Pre-takeoff checklist
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WhiskeyPapa
yes. but for me it happens during international travel.
Indiana_Pilot
Line Up and Wait
I fly all over all the time and buy fuel and use my card to eat/shop of course.. I have only had it happen once... My bank card was flagged for fraud ONLY 20 miles from my home airport at another airport.. I was trying to buy fuel and it declined it and locked my card.. happened first to my debit card and then my credit card... 20 minutes on the phone to get them to turn them back on..
That is not what my bank tells me they say debit is the safest way to use the card.
Edit actually I found the letter that came with my bank card.
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ElPaso Pilot
Pattern Altitude
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ElPaso Pilot
That is not what my bank tells me they say debit is the safest way to use the card.
Sure thing. It is safest for them, since a debit card is exposing your money to risk instead of theirs.
AustinPilot
Pre-takeoff checklist
This happened to me with Chase when I flew through Arizona. However, they just sent me a text message about it, I responded, then it went through on the next swipe. Nicely handled.
I edited while you were responding sorry lol. I'm not up to speed with all the high tech identity theft stuff so I only know what the bank says.
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
Yeah I think this is certainly part of it.
I've been locked down in cities that do have commercial service too even when I got there via a direct flight. The algorithms are a mystery - probably to 99.999% of bank employees too.
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
I've found that many retailers have chip readers that don't even work. They do work (and are now required) at Target. You know... the guys whose crap security started the huge credit card theft mess.
Reedster
Pre-takeoff checklist
I pull out my phone, hand them the card, I tell them it will get declined, I get a text, I reply to the text saying it was me, it says the card is activated, I hand then the card again, tell them we have two more rounds, they swipe again, it gets declined, I get another text saying that there was a duplicate transaction, I call the number on the text, 10 minutes of mind numbing voice recognition, I acknowledge my last three attempts, it says it is activate, I know better, get to an agent, they ask ridiculous public information questions to verify my identity, they say the card is good, I tell them to hang on, the clerk tries again, it gets declined, I get elevated to another rep, they ask more identity questions, say try it again and it works.
Happens pretty much every time I buy fuel at an FBO.
To be fair I do know that a lot of credit card fraud is done through a single high dollar amount fuel purchase, which I why pumps shut off at a certain dollar amount.
Happens pretty much every time I buy fuel at an FBO.
To be fair I do know that a lot of credit card fraud is done through a single high dollar amount fuel purchase, which I why pumps shut off at a certain dollar amount.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Dang....what bank is that?
Reedster
Pre-takeoff checklist
Bank of America. It seems like it has steadily gotten worse in the last 4-5 months. I think we are on the 3rd or 4th replacement card this year, only once was for actual fraud on the account.
ElPaso Pilot
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ElPaso Pilot
It sounds like it's well past time to fire your bank!
No way anyone should put up with that.
EJWall
Pre-Flight
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EJWall
Haven't had a problem with Cap One yet, but maybe because I haven't left the state and bought fuel yet. But never had any problems when traveling with my family, driving or flying commercial either.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reedster
Pre-takeoff checklist
I have been thinking the same thing. I used a small local bank for years, they got bought out a few times, until it ended up being part of BoA.
With my luck, I would switch and the new bank would be assimilated back into BoA.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
I used to use Chase while they had the AirBP thing, and it never gotten it locked - I only used it for aviation. Now I use Capital One, and I only use it for aviation, and I've never gotten it locked either.
Lucky I guess.
Lucky I guess.
I also found that gun shows mess things up. If you buy from one merchant (who is local to you) and then step to a guy who is three states away and he attempts to run your card, they find that an impossible situation (two card present transactions that close).
At least AMEX now will both CALL immediately and send me an email (which has a single THIS WAS ME or THIS WASN'T ME button) to resolve. If I'm still at the store that will actually clear it so I can make the charge.
At least AMEX now will both CALL immediately and send me an email (which has a single THIS WAS ME or THIS WASN'T ME button) to resolve. If I'm still at the store that will actually clear it so I can make the charge.
And then Target doesn't understand that Target replaced Target credit cards so the Target credit card number given weeks ago to by the Target customer on a Target order for a very much in demand item being exclusively sold at Target for a very limited time isn't now authorized by Target credit card at Target because the Target credit card in is now invalid at Target or anywhere else and because of Target cancelling the card Target customers lost the one-time-chance order they placed at Target with their now invalid Target card that Target credit replaced and Target only offers to re-enter he one-time-chance order the Target customer at this time in which time that he one-time-chance order item can no longer be bought at Target.
And Target's final advice to Target's customer who uses the Target credit card is not to charge the one-time-chance order items at Target to the Target credit card that will expire even if the Target customer did not know the Target credit card would be expired by Target before the expiration of the Target credit card.
Even though Target was asked and informed several times that the problem with processing the he one-time-chance item orders at Target with replaced credit cards where Target responded several times that there would be no problem...
http://consumerist.com/2015/11/20/w...t-fallout-4-pre-orders-but-they-didnt-listen/
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denverpilot
Tied Down
"Target" pretty much describes what that retailer should be for a very large self-propelled Howitzer at each location.
Brad Z
Final Approach
Frog protection?
mercurial
Pre-Flight
The algos are not black magic. Based on the properties of the dataset, it's likely nothing more than a massive implementation of logistic regression on a dataset of millions of rows, and likely hundreds of thousands of dimensions/columns. In order to train the algorithm, the engineers input a training dataset of labeled data that has been verified as valid, and by iterating through that dataset the system learns how to assign weights to each dimension, such that it is able to more effectively guess whether each row in the training set is fraud or not. It computes an error rate, then recalculates over and over until the error rate is at an absolute minimum.
The problem with most of you fellas is your GA activities mimic fraudulent activity and you aren't rich enough trigger the weights for model dimensions that indicate that you are a jetsetter, so you get flagged. So the answer is, make more money and regularly buy more expensive stuff so the system anticipates that you might very well jump 1000 miles without any prior indication.
The problem with most of you fellas is your GA activities mimic fraudulent activity and you aren't rich enough trigger the weights for model dimensions that indicate that you are a jetsetter, so you get flagged. So the answer is, make more money and regularly buy more expensive stuff so the system anticipates that you might very well jump 1000 miles without any prior indication.
Doggtyred
En-Route
Does anyone else's bank lock their bank account when traveling on a long cross country in a personal plane - usually to another state?
I'm with Wells Fargo and this has happened to me many times when I forget to notify the bank of my travel plans. For some reason this almost never happens when I fly via airline. Not sure what is getting flagged - it even has happened when I am in a big city and make a purchase (even when it has allowed other purchases.) I am not trying to figure out their fraud detection algorithm and overall I guess I'm glad they do it. But it can be a headache for personal flying.
I'll be standing there at podunkville municipal (or Big City Delta) and my card gets declined. I grimace and suddenly remember that I forgot to check in with nanny. I make the call and 15 minutes later finish paying for my fuel. Maybe this needs to be on my checklist. After authorizing the transaction once it still flags purchases every time I stop there.
I've asked if there's a way around this but I've been told there isn't. So I cope with it.
Is this common?
EDIT: When I do notify them of my plans of a trip to, say, Dallas I end up having to authorize any purchase in the states of Colorado, Oklahoma, Kansas, New Mexico and Texas which are all the states in which I could, in theory at least, land. Even though it's a non-stop flight as planned things can change. So I end up authorizing purchases anywhere in about 30% of America.Just seems weird to do this every time I do these XCs.
Just remember, the fraud protection isn't about protecting you. Its about protecting THEM. The bank ends up eating the costs, so some of them will set the fraud alert trigger pretty light on being tripped, and are averse to "turning it off".
USAA will at least text me the instant the questionable transaction occurs, I can then endorse it via text message and the second run of the card it goes through. Usually only happens when I buy something at a festival/rally where two vendors I've shopped at have business/billing addresses located hundreds of miles from each other (i.e. physically impossible travel times)
Skywalker
Cleared for Takeoff
Same here. While it is annoying at gas stations / FBO's / ... because you have to tell them, that you HAVE to answer the sms you just got, it goes through after you answered the fraud alert. I have even 2 ways to answer: sms or mail and both ways allow the purchase in seconds after you answered...
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
The system my bank (Navy Federal) used is a little more friendly. They let the first out of state fuel purchase go through and then they send the text asking me to confirm. As long as I respond to the text before the next purchase, there is no wait/delay.
James331
Ejection Handle Pulled
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James331
I've had some issues like that.
What worked great for me and is now my default car" is a PayPal "debit card", it simply is linked to your normal bank debit card and acts as a proxy, gives you cash back if you run it as credit, sends you a email right after it's charged with the amount, I've had it all over the US, into Canada, run it for large amounts and never had a issue, plus it's inherently more secure as it sends emails and doesn't even show your real bank info on it.
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/debit-card
What worked great for me and is now my default car" is a PayPal "debit card", it simply is linked to your normal bank debit card and acts as a proxy, gives you cash back if you run it as credit, sends you a email right after it's charged with the amount, I've had it all over the US, into Canada, run it for large amounts and never had a issue, plus it's inherently more secure as it sends emails and doesn't even show your real bank info on it.
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/debit-card