Balls of steel or just plane crazy?

straightforward stupidity.

hopefully he was alone on the airplane and the structure and people clearances were met.

If a pilot wants to get a thrill while risking HIS LIFE and NOT SOMEONE ELSE'S LIFE OR PROPERTY then to each his own.
 
I didn't see anything here that would make the plane dangerous to fly subsequently.

But yeah, this is very unwise. If a fish jumped out of the water (or a groundhog popped out of his hole), I'd like to hear him try and explain a "fish strike" ;)



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It's not smart, but it can be fun. I've done things because they were fun and afterwards realized they were not smart, in fact, pretty ****ing stupid. Hes not scud running because there's not any scud, he's just flying very low. Probably about 5' I would guess, and the problem with being really really low and scud running (besides the fact that scud running is inherently stupid in most cases) is that visibility is usually limited too. Hence why scud running at 5' is a bad idea. Or really any scud running.
 
What's wrong with it? He's always in a position to land should he lose the engine. As for height, it looks like he maps a pretty steady 3', so my guess is he's an Ag pilot.

While it may look dangerous, and granted has some elevated risk, the risk is not as great as perceived. First off, the plane flying at speed in ground effect really does not want to tag the ground, you get a buffer effect. Holding precise altitude at 3'agl is completely simple and natural. Another factor is your kinetic energy. You lose the engine you immediately pull back for a hard climb down to Vbg and look around where to set it, you'll get at least 200' out of the climb. Typically River bottoms provide ample opportunity to pull off a safe landing from 200'.
 
DavidWhite said:
It's not smart, but it can be fun. I've done things because they were fun and afterwards realized they were not smart, in fact, pretty ****ing stupid. Hes not scud running because there's not any scud, he's just flying very low. Probably about 5' I would guess, and the problem with being really really low and scud running (besides the fact that scud running is inherently stupid in most cases) is that visibility is usually limited too. Hence why scud running at 5' is a bad idea. Or really any scud running.
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Most of life's best experiences are pretty stupid.:lol:
 
cirrusmx said:
straightforward stupidity.

hopefully he was alone on the airplane and the structure and people clearances were met.

If a pilot wants to get a thrill while risking HIS LIFE and NOT SOMEONE ELSE'S LIFE OR PROPERTY then to each his own.
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Property? The thing even if a rental is insured, the owner would happily collect a check. There's nothing happening to this plane that is any more abusive than any other flight. Outside of some performance issues, planes absolutely don't care at which altitude they fly.
 
I think the biggest risk here is hitting something on the ground that is not seen until it's too late.

He's free to decide to do this, and yes, it does look fun, it's just not a choice I would make.
 
Henning said:
Why?:dunno: What do you think is happening to this plane that affects it any more than you flying your plane at 5000'?:confused::dunno:
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Why? Because people treat rented property different than if it were their own.. Mr.Top Gun might do things at altitude that may stress the airframe? I'm a collision tech in the automotive industry.. I repair rentals quite often. Rental homes, cars, boats and I'm sure airplanes take a beating.
 
Pinstriper said:
Why? Because people treat rented property different than if it were their own.. Mr.Top Gun might do things at altitude that may stress the airframe? I'm a collision tech in the automotive industry.. I repair rentals quite often. Rental homes, cars, boats and I'm sure airplanes take a beating.
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What do you see that stresses anything?:dunno: When you spend hours everyday flying along and maneuvering 3' off the deck spraying crap, this is normal flying without having to worry about about your chemical application system.

While you perceive this as "Top Gun" type flying, it really is nothing of the sort. He was not doing anything with the plane that was remotely abrupt. If you understand the limitations and how to compensate for them, there is nothing particularly dangerous or abusive to the aircraft in that video.
 
Henning said:
What do you see that stresses anything?:dunno: When you spend hours everyday flying along and maneuvering 3' off the deck spraying crap, this is normal flying without having to worry about about your chemical application system.

While you perceive this as "Top Gun" type flying, it really is nothing of the sort. He was not doing anything with the plane that was remotely abrupt. If you understand the limitations and how to compensate for them, there is nothing particularly dangerous or abusive to the aircraft in that video.
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Agree with Henning... If anything it teaches better aircraft control......

Of course, I would NEVER do that kind of stuff..:redface::redface::redface:;)
 
dans2992 said:
I think the biggest risk here is hitting something on the ground that is not seen until it's too late.

He's free to decide to do this, and yes, it does look fun, it's just not a choice I would make.
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Where is it going to hide?:dunno: even when a plow is hidden in the crop, if I am not in the crop, I will not hit the plow. If the plow is not hidden in the crop, I see the plow long before I hit it.
 
I never said anything in this video was stressing the airplane.. It's what he does and doesn't post that might concern me..
 
Pinstriper said:
I never said anything in this video was stressing the airplane.. It's what he does and doesn't post that might concern me..
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What about the video gives you concern that he is doing things that damages airplanes?:dunno: Students in typical training are a greater concern to me, and even that doesn't really concern me.
I have no issues with plane ownership and have participated as well, but for different reasons than being afraid of condition. I can work that out on preflight.
 
Meh, just hope he carefully mapped out that route. Get complacent with that kind of stuff and the powerline they just hung up last week might be your end.

It's never the line you knew about and were worried about - it's the line you didn't know about that kills folks.
 
When he was in a turn at low level I was just waiting for his wing tip to dig in and cartwheel the airplane. Of course, in that video it's hard to judge if his wingtip might have had 2' clearance or 10'.

Either is too close for me. :)
 
Henning said:
Where is it going to hide?:dunno: even when a plow is hidden in the crop, if I am not in the crop, I will not hit the plow. If the plow is not hidden in the crop, I see the plow long before I hit it.
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Most of the rivers I have seen have wires strung across them somewhere.
 
Vance Breese said:
Most of the rivers I have seen have wires strung across them somewhere.
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Most fields I spray have wires at the end, if yo see sky under them, you clear. He'd be under most all lines. Besides, in country like that you are in more danger of lines at 100' than 3'.
 
Henning said:
Most fields I spray have wires at the end, if yo see sky under them, you clear. He'd be under most all lines. Besides, in country like that you are in more danger of lines at 100' than 3'.
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It's the ones you don't see that you hit. My dad and grandpa clipped a couple in their 70 years combined of crop dusting. Got pretty luck each time. Never did they hit a line they knew was there.

About a year ago a guy in his early 20s took his girlfriend up in a local rental Arrow. He was doing a bunch of low passes over farm fields. They hit a powerline and two fatalities was a result.

NTSB probable cause:
About 3 miles east of the airport, the airplane impacted a 20-foot-high power line, which resulted in the vertical stabilizer separating from the top of the fuselage and the airplane becoming uncontrollable until it impacted terrain. Examination of the airframe and engine revealed no evidence of mechanical malfunctions or failures that would have precluded normal operation. A parallel set of high-tension power lines with large support poles was located about 1/2 mile east of the impacted power line. As the pilot flew the airplane at a low altitude eastbound, the high-tension power lines likely visually aligned (that is, came within the same line of sight) with the impacted power line. Therefore, it is likely that the pilot was focused on the more prominent high-tension power lines and did not observe the impacted power line.
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The crop dusters that live an entire career don't go on the deck around fields until they've very carefully located all the lines. Most people playing crop duster don't put any thought towards it and just start buzzing **** figuring they'll see them and well they pay the price.
 
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Why is there an assumption the pilot filming this was not aware of the wires and other obstructions on the route?:dunno: What is see in this thread is somebody scared of something they don't fully understand and are seeking validation for their fear. The person flying in the video demonstrated nothing but competence.

Are there some precautions to take when preparing to do this? Yes, they are well known precautions, why is there an assumption they weren't taken?:dunno:
 
jesse said:
It's the ones you don't see that you hit. My dad and grandpa clipped a couple in there 70 years combined of crop dusting. Got pretty luck each time. Never did they hit a line they knew was there.

About a year ago a guy in his early 20s took his girlfriend up in a local rental Arrow. He was doing a bunch of low passes over farm fields. They hit a powerline and two fatalities was a result.

NTSB probable cause:


The crop dusters that live an entire career don't go on the deck around fields until they've very carefully located all the lines. Most people playing crop duster don't put any thought towards it and just start buzzing **** figuring they'll see them and well they pay the price.
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Good point....

Before we bar-b-que this pilot... Consider this..... My guess is he/she knew exactly the lay of the land, knew there were NO powerlines and probably pre-flew the route to confirm it was safe to fly.......

Was it dangerous...... Maybe a little , but less dangerous then a ATC controller dodging drunks from the bars while driving home at 2AM after getting off the morgue shift at a center facility.....

IMHO.... YMMV....
 
Henning said:
Why is there an assumption the pilot filming this was not aware of the wires and other obstructions on the route?:dunno: What is see in this thread is somebody scared of something they don't fully understand and are seeking validation for their fear. The person flying in the video demonstrated nothing but competence.

Are there some precautions to take when preparing to do this? Yes, they are well known precautions, why is there an assumption they weren't taken?:dunno:
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There isn't in my mind. Quite frankly I could careless what the hell that guy does above that river. Provided he doesn't clip me when I'm fishing.
 
jesse said:
There isn't in my mind. Quite frankly I could careless what the hell that guy does above that river. Provided he doesn't clip me when I'm fishing.
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Exactly, personally I like traveling at low levels and get waved at as I pass farms below the top of their silo. It's one of the primary reasons I like traveling in twins. With the 310 I would have to be in some high mountains to not be able to abide by the 'safe landing' stipulation since it could keep flying on one pretty damn well.

It's really nothing about balls or a death wish or adrenaline, it's the view I like. You see a lot of detail down low, and at 165kts, you see a lot of it.
 
Henning said:
Exactly, personally I like traveling at low levels and get waved at as I pass farms below the top of their silo. It's one of the primary reasons I like traveling in twins. With the 310 I would have to be in some high mountains to not be able to abide by the 'safe landing' stipulation since it could keep flying on one pretty damn well.

It's really nothing about balls or a death wish or adrenaline, it's the view I like. You see a lot of detail down low, and at 165kts, you see a lot of it.
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I don't mind flying that low in the Flybaby at 80 knots but at 165 knots I want to be above 2,000 AGL. My eyes are too old for that down low ****. I just don't find it relaxing at all to be at cell phone antenna altitude when I'm traveling the length of a football field every second.
 
jesse said:
I don't mind flying that low in the Flybaby at 80 knots but at 165 knots I want to be above 2,000 AGL. My eyes are too old for that down low ****. I just don't find it relaxing at all to be at cell phone antenna altitude when I'm traveling the length of a football field every second.
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Meh, you get used to it and learn how to spot things. The PA-12 was 115 kts , and as long as visibility was over a mile, I never had any problems spotting things running pipelines, and I'm paying more attention down than ahead. Even racked up at 180, if you are paying attention ahead and have decent visibility, it really isn't a big issue. It's when you get distracted, that's when it's time to climb and deal with the distraction. Down low takes focus.
 
I can show you thousands of tragedies that started at thousands of feet.
 
DavidWhite said:
It's not smart, but it can be fun. I've done things because they were fun and afterwards realized they were not smart, in fact, pretty ****ing stupid. Hes not scud running because there's not any scud, he's just flying very low. Probably about 5' I would guess, and the problem with being really really low and scud running (besides the fact that scud running is inherently stupid in most cases) is that visibility is usually limited too. Hence why scud running at 5' is a bad idea. Or really any scud running.
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Asking for trouble IMHO. For an example of just how wrong things can turn out, read the "Prisoner of War" section of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabby_Gabreski

Not only did he crash, he missed going home, missed his wedding, and spent the last part of the war in a POW camp!

Dave
 
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