Bailed because of frost -- a good call?

[roddie]

I'm a student pilot (37 hours) practicing for my checkride and trying to get myself up to 40. Since the time-change, I've been having to get out to the airport in the mornings before work; usually 6:30 AM or so.

This morning was the first time I've had to actually make a "no go" decision because of something beyond VFR vs. IMC.

Today on the way to the field, the METAR was:

KTKI 131153Z AUTO 00000KT 5SM HZ CLR M02/M06 A3049 RMK A02 SLP340 T10221056 10017 21022 53000 FZRAN

I got to the plane, a C152, and found it covered in frost -- The windshield, wings, body, and tail. The Sun was just coming up, so I figured I would do my pre-flight and hope that the rising Sun would quickly melt the frost. I even started the plane up hoping that would get things going. After an hour, not much had changed, and since I actually have to work to pay for this expensive hobby, I bailed.

Back at it tomorrow!

 

[MAKG1]

Yes, you made a good call. You should not take off with frost on any of the exposed surfaces of the aircraft, especially lifting and control surfaces.

It doesn't have to be below freezing on the ground to form frost, and in sunlight, it doesn't have to be above freezing to melt it. This time of year, schedule your flights hours well after sunrise, or use a hangar, unless the forecast is for a dewpoint well below the overnight low temperature.

Can you go after work? At lunch hour? Weekends?

I spent my share of mornings at the airport waiting for frost to melt when I was a student. I found that, locally, 10AM worked in fall and winter. Maybe 9:30. But usually not earlier. Your answer is going to be a bit different.

Expect questions about this on your oral.

I'm sure you figured this out, but do not attempt to scrape frost off the aircraft. The windshield is Plexiglas, and really won't respond well. I suspect you could hose it down if the ambient temperature is above freezing, but I haven't tried this.

 

[dell30rb]

I did a lot of my student solo flying at the crack of dawn before work and had a lot of frosty 152's to deal with.

Lukewarm water and an empty milk jug... 3-4 gallons will do the trick. You can dump it just above the leading edge and it will roll back, taking the frost with it. My instructor told me that if a little bit of clear ice forms in lieu of the frost, no sweat. Clear, smooth ice won't disrupt things like frost (rough surface) will.

 

[roddie]

Can you go after work? At lunch hour? Weekends?

Unfortunately, I can't really "escape" for long enough during the day to get out to the airport, do a pre-flight, fly around for an hour, etc. With the sunset here being at around 5:30, I would be too rushed to make it after work.

I spent my share of mornings at the airport waiting for frost to melt when I was a student. I found that, locally, 10AM worked in fall and winter. Maybe 9:30. But usually not earlier. Your answer is going to be a bit different.

Fortunately, this is Texas, so I can't expect too many of these types mornings before I get my checkride done, and it was definitely a surprise today.

Expect questions about this on your oral.

And now I can wow him with an anecdote!

I'm sure you figured this out, but do not attempt to scrape frost off the aircraft. The windshield is Plexiglas, and really won't respond well. I suspect you could hose it down if the ambient temperature is above freezing, but I haven't tried this.

Yeah, I didn't figure the 'ole credit-card "trick" would work on an airplane. :wink2: I did end up cleaning the windshield off with a paper towel, but I knew it was a bad idea to try to mess with the wings.

 

[AuntPeggy]

I'm a student pilot (37 hours) practicing for my checkride and trying to get myself up to 40. Since the time-change, I've been having to get out to the airport in the mornings before work; usually 6:30 AM or so.

This morning was the first time I've had to actually make a "no go" decision because of something beyond VFR vs. IMC.

Today on the way to the field, the METAR was:

KTKI 131153Z AUTO 00000KT 5SM HZ CLR M02/M06 A3049 RMK A02 SLP340 T10221056 10017 21022 53000 FZRAN

I got to the plane, a C152, and found it covered in frost -- The windshield, wings, body, and tail. The Sun was just coming up, so I figured I would do my pre-flight and hope that the rising Sun would quickly melt the frost. I even started the plane up hoping that would get things going. After an hour, not much had changed, and since I actually have to work to pay for this expensive hobby, I bailed.

Back at it tomorrow!

Do not fly with frost or ice on the aircraft. Pull it into a hangar if you absolutely must fly. De-ice does no real good for a C-152.

Do not fly with frost or ice on the aircraft. You can position the aircraft to catch the greatest amount of sunlight. Wait until the sun has a chance to burn it off.

Do not fly with frost or ice on the aircraft. Do not throw water on the aircraft to melt the frost or ice. Water or ice in the hinges makes them stuck. Not good.

Do not fly with frost or ice on the aircraft. At one time the FAA recommended that you could simply "polish" the frost with a towel. They have changed that recommendation. Today, they recommend: Do not fly with frost or ice on the aircraft.

 

[roddie]

Do not fly with frost or ice on the aircraft. Pull it into a hangar if you absolutely must fly. De-ice does no real good for a C-152.

Do not fly with frost or ice on the aircraft. You can position the aircraft to catch the greatest amount of sunlight. Wait until the sun has a chance to burn it off.

Do not fly with frost or ice on the aircraft. Do not throw water on the aircraft to melt the frost or ice. Water or ice in the hinges makes them stuck. Not good.

Do not fly with frost or ice on the aircraft. At one time the FAA recommended that you could simply "polish" the frost with a towel. They have changed that recommendation. Today, they recommend: Do not fly with frost or ice on the aircraft.

So, what are you trying to say?

 

[jesse]

With a little motivation and a ladder you can generally get all the frost off with nothing but a pair of gloves. Or your jacket sleeve. You can at least get enough off that the sun quickly takes care of the rest.

 

[dell30rb]

Do not throw water on the aircraft to melt the frost or ice. Water or ice in the hinges makes them stuck. Not good.

Water makes them stick? If so rain would be bringing down planes left and right.

If it is brutally cold maybe the water could freeze thick enough to stick something but not here or in Texas. Generally the warm water just runs off leaving no trace.

 

[Sac Arrow]

If you stand on the very top of the ladder, you can pee on the plane and melt the ice that way too.

 

[roddie]

Funny enough, I haven't had to deal with frost even on a car since I moved to Texas from Canada in 1998. I don't miss those days of shivering, waiting for the defroster cranked up high to do the work for me so I could drive with about a 3" high half-circle to look through.

 

[zaitcev]

De-ice does no real good for a C-152.

Why is that?

I must admit that I trained in Cherokee, so it may be different. But we used de-ice fluid to make the frost into a goo that could be easily removed from the wings and other surfaces.

 

[roddie]

If you stand on the very top of the ladder, you can pee on the plane and melt the ice that way too.

Sad-but-true - I had to cut my flight short yesterday because I had to make a pit stop. Today I went before I left and didn't even get to fly! Maybe I need to work on efficiency.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Sad-but-true - I had to cut my flight short yesterday because I had to make a pit stop. Today I went before I left and didn't even get to fly! Maybe I need to work on efficiency.

Yeah when you get it down you can either de-ice one of them, write your name on two of them, or mark ten of them.

 

[Tom-D]

Tonight on your way home stop by your local hardware store and buy a roll of plastic sheet. and then cover the wings with it, by taping it to the wings.

then tomorrow morning simply remove the plastic and go fly.

That also works when you expect a big snow fall.

Don't forget the horizontal and elevators.

 

[JHW]

RV antifreeze in your garden sprayer. Just make sure you get the sprayer cleaned out well from its summertime use.

 

[JoeSelch]

...
Yeah, I didn't figure the 'ole credit-card "trick" would work on an airplane. :wink2: I did end up cleaning the windshield off with a paper towel, but I knew it was a bad idea to try to mess with the wings.

Paper towel and airplane "glass" don't mix!

Assuming you're renting, talk to your FBO about how they prefer to have their windshields clean - towel, cleaner, and technique.
Mess up any of those three and you (and everyone else who flies the plane) are looking at scratches and swirls.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Why is that?

I must admit that I trained in Cherokee, so it may be different. But we used de-ice fluid to make the frost into a goo that could be easily removed from the wings and other surfaces.

I have found on my 172 that putting her in the hangar for an hour is much more cost-effective than spending that hour hosing her down and getting spotty results. And more comfortable for me. YMMV.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Water makes them stick? If so rain would be bringing down planes left and right.

If it is brutally cold maybe the water could freeze thick enough to stick something but not here or in Texas. Generally the warm water just runs off leaving no trace.

What I meant to indicate is that water on frozen hinges can become ice and make them stick.

 

[Brad Z]

When I used to fly traffic reporters we used aircraft de-icing fluid in a garden sprayer. It did the trick quite nicely, and had a side-effect of removing bugs from the wings. It didn't seem to bother plexiglass either.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

Tonight on your way home stop by your local hardware store and buy a roll of plastic sheet. and then cover the wings with it, by taping it to the wings.

then tomorrow morning simply remove the plastic and go fly.

That also works when you expect a big snow fall.

Don't forget the horizontal and elevators.

RV antifreeze in your garden sprayer. Just make sure you get the sprayer cleaned out well from its summertime use.

Is this a rental? If so, I'd be checking with the FBO or leaseback owner prior to putting tape on a plane or spraying anything on it from a garden sprayer.

 

[Jaybird180]

Tonight on your way home stop by your local hardware store and buy a roll of plastic sheet. and then cover the wings with it, by taping it to the wings....
Don't forget the horizontal and elevators.

Sounds like the makings of a good practical joke...wrapping plastic anyone?

 

[roddie]

Is this a rental? If so, I'd be checking with the FBO or leaseback owner prior to putting tape on a plane or spraying anything on it from a garden sprayer.

It's a flying club rental -- The suggestions are great, but I don't plan on doing much more than waiting for the sun to melt it off since it's not my plane.

 

[Z06_Mir]

Paper towel and airplane "glass" don't mix!

Assuming you're renting, talk to your FBO about how they prefer to have their windshields clean - towel, cleaner, and technique.
Mess up any of those three and you (and everyone else who flies the plane) are looking at scratches and swirls.

We always used (and I continue to use) Plexo and soft blue one-time use towels. Never got a complaint. Sometimes people would use their own rags, but that was it. No one was ever concerned.

 

[kgruber]

We always used (and I continue to use) Plexo and soft blue one-time use towels. Never got a complaint. Sometimes people would use their own rags, but that was it. No one was ever concerned.

No one is ever concerned about rental planes. Even the owners seem not to care that people just kick the **** out of their airplanes.

 

[MAKG1]

What I meant to indicate is that water on frozen hinges can become ice and make them stick.

If it's below freezing, I agree. Bad idea.

But it doesn't have to be below freezing to get nighttime frost.

Now, it still may be time consuming and chilly under those circumstances, but it won't make the ailerons freeze.

 

[roddie]

No one is ever concerned about rental planes. Even the owners seem not to care that people just kick the **** out of their airplanes.

Or in Action Figure Model's case; pee on them.

I try to take good care of the C152s that I've been training in.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Renters can be territorial....

 

[MAKG1]

Or in Action Figure Model's case; pee on them.

Naw, just pee on the frozen hinges. :wink2:

 

[Z06_Mir]

No one is ever concerned about rental planes. Even the owners seem not to care that people just kick the **** out of their airplanes.

I'm talking about customers planes. I've worked line. Probably washed 1000+ windshields lol

 

[Tom-D]

You could simply ask it you can protect the wings at night.

they probably won't care.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

You could simply ask it you can protect the wings at night.

they probably won't care.

Yes you are probably right.

And for courtesy's sake I always like to ask before I fiddle with someone else's stuff.

 

[davidm767]

I was a bit spoiled with flying at a high desert Arizona college...we had de-ice trucks for the fleet. Always would use hot de-ice fluid to get the wings defrosted (daily event). However, now that I've grown more than a few years from those happy (and expensive) days here is how I usually take care of frost.

I prefer the hot water mixed in with a little de-ice fluid (glycol based windshield mix is nice)...Buy a fairly cheap California squeegee to shed the water off the wings to prevent refreeze. Albeit not the most elegant solution, it works all the same. I found most rental clubs in the western/southeastern/sunny latitudes in general, heated hangar space is often not easy to come by.

 

[35 AoA]

It's a flying club rental -- The suggestions are great, but I don't plan on doing much more than waiting for the sun to melt it off since it's not my plane.

Nothing wrong with that, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with walking away from a frost covered airplane. That kind of decision making is what the FAA certification process should be instilling in pilots. Never let anyone (yourself included) talk you into flying when you aren't comfortable doing so.....at least given the mission of flying to enjoy yourself!

 

[flyingmoose]

Of course you made the right call. You don't need a bunch of armchair pilots to tell you that you did right. I assume your CFI was involved anyway seeing as how you are still on the solo sign offs.

You will find ways later on to deal with the frost. Like many others have said. Put it in a hanger, warm water and a towel, De-ice fluid etc......

Hope you get your checkride done soon, good luck

 

[roddie]

Of course you made the right call. You don't need a bunch of armchair pilots to tell you that you did right. I assume your CFI was involved anyway seeing as how you are still on the solo sign offs.

Yeah, I knew it was the right call, though I did admittedly use my Google Machine to make sure. It made sense and I do remember something about frost from the King Course that I used to prep for the written.

I texted my CFI after I'd already made the decision and he replied "Welcome to winter." Good guy

Hope you get your checkride done soon, good luck

Thanks! My goal is to have it done by the 30th so I can fly my family down to Houston that weekend for my son's hockey tournament.

 

[GCA319]

You made a good call. That is fairly thick frost that probably took quite a bit of time to burn off.

 

[GCA319]

]I was a bit spoiled with flying at a high desert Arizona college...we had de-ice trucks for the fleet.[/B] Always would use hot de-ice fluid to get the wings defrosted (daily event). However, now that I've grown more than a few years from those happy (and expensive) days here is how I usually take care of frost.

I prefer the hot water mixed in with a little de-ice fluid (glycol based windshield mix is nice)...Buy a fairly cheap California squeegee to shed the water off the wings to prevent refreeze. Albeit not the most elegant solution, it works all the same. I found most rental clubs in the western/southeastern/sunny latitudes in general, heated hangar space is often not easy to come by.

Riddle has de-ice trucks? Wow. My airport in high desert NM doesn't even have pre heat.

 

[zaitcev]

Riddle has de-ice trucks? Wow. My airport in high desert NM doesn't even have pre heat.

Coincidentially I'm scheduled to fly T-6 early tomorrow out of SAF. It's moved to a warmed hangar overnight so we can start it.

 

[GCA319]

Coincidentially I'm scheduled to fly T-6 early tomorrow out of SAF. It's moved to a warmed hangar overnight so we can start it.

The T-6 as in the SNJ WWII trainer or one of the other ones? If it's the SNJ I assume you're flying with either Don or Geoff.

 

[douglas393]

Remember, if you feel uncomfortable about the flying conditions, not flying is ALWAYS the right decision.