Back to XP

[markb5900]

Does anyone know of a "relatively" easy way to go from vista back to xp.
Any pre-written hacks out there yet that don't require a couple of hours of reloading drivers etc..

Thanks

Mark B

 

[RJM62]

Was this an upgrade from XP, or was Vista pre-installed?

Also, why do you want to uninstall Vista?

 

[Greebo]

By definition, going from one operating system to another is a complete system rebuild. Microsoft builds special utilities for upgrading from an older version to a newer. They do not do it for going backwards, for obvious reasons.

If you want to go back to XP, you are going to have to do an O/S wipe and start over.

 

[tdager]

I just installed Vista (actually re-installed it) on the wifes new laptop last night.

I, for one, like eye-candy (that is one reason I married my wife! ) and I think, so far, that Vista is a decent OS.

XP is good too, but will not be supported for too much longer, just an FYI.

 

[RJM62]

No, Vista does not offer an uninstall option like some previous upgrades did. The default Vista upgrade is permanent.

However, if a parallel install was selected at upgrade time, the Vista installation can be removed and the bootsector modified to boot back into XP. The process isn't perfect, however. For example, some user data, such as emails processed in Vista, will be lost unless they can be merged back into XP; and of course, any apps installed to Vista will have to be installed into XP once Vista is removed (unless the user installed them to both systems). Documents can generally be backed up and migrated back into XP, however.

But again, if the default Vista upgrade was selected rather than the parallel install, then it is, for all intents and purposes, permanent.

Personally, I think that Vista is a better OS than XP in ways that geeks can appreciate, especially in terms of security. I also find it to be very stable. Yet despite that, I have to admit that although I have both OS's running, I still find myself using XP (and Linux, for that matter) a lot more than I use Vista.

I personally could do without Vista's eye candy. I also get a lot of complaints from clients (mainly business clients; the home users don't seem to care much) that the default Vista interface is just too different from what they're used to and hurts their productivity.

As for backward compatibility, though, there had to be some sacrifices for the sake of security; and third-party developers had plenty of time to re-write their apps. So I give MS a pass on that one.

Regards,

Rich

 

[mikea]

I just installed Vista (actually re-installed it) on the wifes new laptop last night.

I, for one, like eye-candy (that is one reason I married my wife! ) and I think, so far, that Vista is a decent OS.

XP is good too, but will not be supported for too much longer, just an FYI.

The day Microsoft pulls the plug on XP is the day to short MSFT and buy APPL and Red Hat.

Something like 9% of Windows users are still running Windows 95.

 

[markb5900]

It was an pre-install not an upgrade.
The reason for going back is mainly for compatibility issues with hardware and software programs that I use. At present several pieces of hardware that I own have no intention of writing new drivers for Vista and it is cheaper to go back than to purchase new hardware.

Thanks
Mark B

 

[Dave Siciliano]

but will not be supported for too much longer, just an FYI.

You mean what I haven't been able to get for several years now is called SUPPORT!!

I've just gotta find a business where I can create blotted cr@p and just blow off anyone that needs help the way these folks have. Is this in the Hot Section?

Best,

Dave

 

[mikea]

You mean what I haven't been able to get for several years now is called SUPPORT!!

I've just gotta find a business where I can create blotted cr@p and just blow off anyone that needs help the way these folks have. Is this in the Hot Section?

Best,

Dave

That's what I always say. "We will no longer support..." as opposed to the support we don't get now?

What they stop is the dozen monthly required security patches. That does make a difference. It makes it time for more to switch from Windows.

 

[KennyFlys]

If need be, buy a new boxed XP on eBay. I just saw XP Home for $81 and XP Pro for $130. I'm sure spending money isn't preferred but if loss of use of existing peripheral equipment and software is an issue, that may be the only resort. I'm sure it's cheaper than an upgrade to newer software and equipment. I'm curious, though. How old are these items?

 

[markb5900]

If need be, buy a new boxed XP on eBay. I just saw XP Home for $81 and XP Pro for $130. I'm sure spending money isn't preferred but if loss of use of existing peripheral equipment and software is an issue, that may be the only resort. I'm sure it's cheaper than an upgrade to newer software and equipment. I'm curious, though. How old are these items?

A few years. But can get a copy of xp cheaper than just replacing the scanner alone. So want to go that route, but don't feel like being at it for several hours getting drivers etc. loaded up to revert back to xp.
Reverting back can be done, just takes a lot of time and energy, was hoping someone maybe had an "easy' hack for it.

Mark B

 

[RJM62]

If need be, buy a new boxed XP on eBay. I just saw XP Home for $81 and XP Pro for $130. I'm sure spending money isn't preferred but if loss of use of existing peripheral equipment and software is an issue, that may be the only resort. I'm sure it's cheaper than an upgrade to newer software and equipment. I'm curious, though. How old are these items?

That'll work. But just to be sure, I'd check with the mfr. to make sure they have drivers available for the motherboard components, as well as any integrated peripherals (on-board modem, sound card, network card, etc.).

If the PC is made by a major manufacturer, then most likely they have drivers for both Vista and XP downloadable from their Web site, because many people are still specifying XP rather than Vista, for the reasons you mention (among others); and others like yourself are wiping their drives and installing XP.

I've even been able to get free XP CD's and driver disks for some commercial clients whose apps wouldn't run on Vista, but only after telling the manufacturer that the clients would return the computers otherwise. You might be able to do the same, so it may be worth a call to the mfr.

You also might want to consider a dual-boot configuration, just in case you ever decide you want Vista (or if you like it better for some apps). There are several ways to do this.

You can, for example, hire a tech to install XP on a separate hard drive or partitition using a custom bootloader. This does have some risks: Sometimes (rarely, but sometimes) an update may overwrite the bootloader, leaving you unable to boot one or the other system. This is usually fixable, but it can be complicated.

It's also possible to purchase a hardware switch that will fire up only the selected hard drive, like this one. That one is for IDE drives; they also make them for SATA. Using a selector switch like this, you can install multiple operating systems on multiple drives, with only the selected drive being connected at any given time. This way, each drive has its own discrete MBR.

The only problem with this approach is that you can't directly copy data from one drive to another, because only the active drive is connected at any given time. But it's a good, solid, hardware-based dual-boot solution if you don't need to do that.

 

[SkyHog]

Here's the issue, Mark.

A lot of new computers that come preinstalled with Vista have no driver support for XP. The drivers exist, but you gotta find out what hardware you have and then manually find the drivers. No big deal if the network driver isn't one of the ones that XP won't install. No NIC? No internet. Worse, if you have no NIC, no Modem, and no CD-ROM (I haven't seen a CD-ROM that the generic drivers won't at least load into MS-DOS Compatibility mode, but I'm sure they exist), then you're hosed.

My suggestion? Stick with Vista. I've found the secret to getting most stuff to work in Vista is to run it as Administrator (right click, "Run as Administrator"). Its not the optimum solution, but it works about 95% of the time.

And look for 3rd party driver support. You'd be surprised what people will write drivers for.

Final suggestion? Ubuntu Studio Feisty. That's my OS of choice (this was typed in Windows only because I'm testing PilotFreeStuff in Windows).

 

[tdager]

I too use Linux...but know this, even in the *nix world, unless you are using Debian, there are finite "support" windows for most *nix distros, and in some cases they are shorter than Microsoft has for its products.

Just food for thought.

 

[SkyHog]

I too use Linux...but know this, even in the *nix world, unless you are using Debian, there are finite "support" windows for most *nix distros, and in some cases they are shorter than Microsoft has for its products.

Just food for thought.

Actually, I've found support for every problem I've had on the internet through forums or just a google search. I could be lucky, but I've had my fair share of problems (mostly PEBCAK, admittedly), but have always found the solution, including a really weird issue with APCI on my laptop.

 

[RJM62]

Actually, I've found support for every problem I've had on the internet through forums or just a google search. I could be lucky, but I've had my fair share of problems (mostly PEBCAK, admittedly), but have always found the solution, including a really weird issue with APCI on my laptop.

There's a reason that Ubuntu is experiencing rapid growth, and that's because it's an incredible, well-supported, polished Linux with an active community. In fact, I'm installing it on an old Thinkpad T22 for someone as we speak. But it does raise some interesting issues regarding Linux at large.

Ubuntu is built on Debian, and the community has done a remarkable job polishing it and making it both pretty and functional. This is in the best traditions of Open Source: The Ubuntu community is building upon what is (in my opinion) the most solid Linux platform there is, and bringing it to the masses.

The problem is that like other Debian forks (Xandros, Morphix, Stonegate, Knoppix, Mepis, the now-defunct Corel Linux, etc.), Ubuntu development tends to be more at the fork level than the platform level. Of course, once again, it can be argued that this is in the finest traditions of Open Source. But the downside is that although most Debian packages will work just fine on a forked distribution, the opposite is less often the case.

What Linux really needs to become mainstream is to attract serious attention from third-party hardware and software vendors, and this isn't going to happen as long as there are a dozen (or more) different Linuxes they have to write for.

Yeah, people like us can usually find a hack or a tweak to make things work like they're supposed to in Linux, but the average user doesn't want installing software or adding a printer to be a challenge.

I was on the phone earlier with a guy who called about a login problem in XP. It turns out his keyboard had become unplugged. It took almost 25 minutes to explain to him how to plug it back in. Thing is, the guy has a PhD! These are not the kind of people who are going to edit config files to get a printer to work. Even "plug and play" is a challenge to them.

So the challenge becomes how to preserve the freedom to work on the forks and make Linux better and more usable for average people, without deserting the platform. And frankly, I don't have an answer.

 

[tdager]

Actually, I've found support for every problem I've had on the internet through forums or just a google search. I could be lucky, but I've had my fair share of problems (mostly PEBCAK, admittedly), but have always found the solution, including a really weird issue with APCI on my laptop.

True...I was thinking more of those that do not wish to wade through forums looking for fixes or some question to an esoteric problem.

 

[jesse]

True...I was thinking more of those that do not wish to wade through forums looking for fixes or some question to an esoteric problem.

What do they do right now to fix a Microsoft problem?

 

[tdager]

What do they do right now to fix a Microsoft problem?

Ummm..call support? Not trying to be a smart ass, but most "regular folk" call someone to help or get someone over, they do not spend tons of time online trying to find a fix to a problem they barely understand.

 

[Joe Gremlin]

As has been mentioned, the only way to get rid of Vista and go back to XP is to do a wipe/clean install. Given that your PC came with Vista pre-installed, you're likely to run into problems finding drivers. In addition, you're going to need to buy XP if you don't already have a boxed retail copy. The copy that was installed on your last pc may not work and won't be legal.

However, there is another option. Before you wipe the hard drive, I would try installing virtual PC which is available for free from microsoft here:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx

Virtual PC allows you to install other and/or previous operating systems which run in a window on top of Vista. You'll still need a good copy of XP but you won't have to wipe your drive or lose anything that you're using now. When you need to use your legacy hardware, load a virtual PC window, start XP and do what you need.

 

[jesse]

Ummm..call support? Not trying to be a smart ass, but most "regular folk" call someone to help or get someone over, they do not spend tons of time online trying to find a fix to a problem they barely understand.

Call Microsoft support? They won't support 99% of computers out there.

Any computer that is built by an OEM (Dell, HP, Compaq, etc) will not be supported by Microsoft. Operating system support is in the hands of the OEM.

Oh you mean call your OEM? You can do that I guess but you'll be speaking to some idiot in India. Unless you problem consists of something simple (plug your mouse in) you'll find yourself digging around on Google and internet forums the same as you do for Linux, which was my point.

 

[tdager]

Call Microsoft support? They won't support 99% of computers out there.

Any computer that is built by an OEM (Dell, HP, Compaq, etc) will not be supported by Microsoft. Operating system support is in the hands of the OEM.

Oh you mean call your OEM? You can do that I guess but you'll be speaking to some idiot in India. Unless you problem consists of something simple (plug your mouse in) you'll find yourself digging around on Google and internet forums the same as you do for Linux, which was my point.

OK ...whatever. You have your view, I have mine. I just do not have a hardon against Microsoft like so many others.

Here is a clue for the average user...a computer is NOT a toaster. It is NOT a VCR/DVD player...it is more of a car, sometimes you have to get under the hood to tinker with it or get a mechanic to do so.

Linux is a great OS, but it is NOT the panacea so many seem to make it...it has its bugs, it OS obsolescence, software/hardware incompatibility issues just like Microsoft.

 

[jesse]

OK ...whatever. You have your view, I have mine. I just do not have a hardon against Microsoft like so many others.

Here is a clue for the average user...a computer is NOT a toaster. It is NOT a VCR/DVD player...it is more of a car, sometimes you have to get under the hood to tinker with it or get a mechanic to do so.

Linux is a great OS, but it is NOT the panacea so many seem to make it...it has its bugs, it OS obsolescence, software/hardware incompatibility issues just like Microsoft.

Did I say Linux was perfect? No. All I said was Microsoft phone support is worthless and by no means can be considered 'support'.

I also pointed out the fact that Microsoft will not provide support for any OEM installation of Windows. That's the computer manufacturer's job.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

However, there is another option. Before you wipe the hard drive, I would try installing virtual PC which is available for free from microsoft here:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx

Virtual PC allows you to install other and/or previous operating systems which run in a window on top of Vista. You'll still need a good copy of XP but you won't have to wipe your drive or lose anything that you're using now. When you need to use your legacy hardware, load a virtual PC window, start XP and do what you need.

Ah, progress. It used to be that Virtual PC was a Mac program (by Connectix) so us Mac users could run the occasional Windows program. Now, Macs are able to run Windows natively (or via vmware, CrossOver, or Parallels) and Virtual PC is a Microsoft product that's being used to run Windows on a Windows box.

I dunno why, but I find that rather humorous.

 

[RogerT]

Final suggestion? Ubuntu Studio Feisty. That's my OS of choice (this was typed in Windows only because I'm testing PilotFreeStuff in Windows).

What's the differences with Feisty? I'm still running Edgy .. but have a
cd here for Feisty I got a couple weeks ago at a conference.

One thing I haven't been able to do is get it to find a 5250 emulation
program to connect to our iSeries. If I could get that I'd probably
dump Windoz on most of our work computers and make a CD for them
to boot from in the stores so they can't mess up the computers putting
crap on them.

 

[SkyHog]

What's the differences with Feisty? I'm still running Edgy .. but have a
cd here for Feisty I got a couple weeks ago at a conference.

One thing I haven't been able to do is get it to find a 5250 emulation
program to connect to our iSeries. If I could get that I'd probably
dump Windoz on most of our work computers and make a CD for them
to boot from in the stores so they can't mess up the computers putting
crap on them.

Here is a list of the changes:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/7.04Tour

To be honest, I'm running Ubuntu Studio, not the actual Ubuntu version that most are running, so I can't tell you for sure what is in Feisty Fawn and what is not, but the biggest difference from Edgy that I've found is the easy of installing restricted drivers (for MP3s, WMVs, etc.). In most cases, the first time you try to open a file that uses a restricted driver, it automatically detects which one it is, and Synaptic will give you the option to install it. Much easier than trying to find the restricted driver yourself.

But there are others (that link shows most). That was just the icing on the cake for me.