Back in the Game?

[Mike Boehler]

Looks like I'll be getting back into the cockpit after a long layover in life.

I'm 48 and when I pulled my log book out yesterday, it showed 8 years since my last flight.

I learned on a 150 that I purchased in partners with my flight instructor. We sold the plane when he didn't want his CFI any longer, but we made lots of fun flights in that thing.

After that I bought into a 10 member flying club with a 172 with about 5 active flyer's, so booking was easy. I never liked the way the club put cost above maintenance and I ended up getting out. A member shortly thereafter stuffed the plane into the ground VFR into IMC. Everyone knew it was coming, be we liked him nonetheless.

So here I am, with my little flight bag that's 10 years old, all my goodies that people wouldn't recognize. If any of you scuba dive, I reminiscent of the guy that shows up to the dive boat with an old horse collar.

I've been lurking here and it seems like the biggest thing that has changed is the avionics. No big surprise, I expected that. I flew with GPS 8 years ago, but things have just progressed to a point where I don't even know the abbreviations!

I've never seen a glass cockpit, but I don't imagine that will figure into my training for checkout and beyond.

I've had two engine failures, one complete failure with restart after what seemed like hours and another partial failure. One was on my way to my Private check ride in Nashua NH.

I've decided to over complicate this, like I do everything else, and learn as much about the changes in aviation before getting in the left seat. I am going to re-join AOPA I suppose, because it looks like they have a pretty good section on this.

I've got lots of IFR training hours, but I don't have the time it takes to make this a reality before and after I were to be rated. I love training, which is why I have so many hours under the hood.

No problems with the medical, I just haven't done it yet.

Any advice would be really appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[dmccormack]

Welcome back!

A good rule of thumb is an hour for each year off before you're proficient enough to get signed off.

I had a 5 year layoff -- 5 hours of dual and I was back on my own.

:wink2:

 

[AWACSEng]

Wow. With that rule, I must be a horrible pilot! 4.0 of dual after a one year layoff!

 

[AdamZ]

Mike tell us where you live and perhaps we can direct you to a good CFI or flight school or even get airborn with one of us. We have POAers from Washington to Florida and California to Maine.

 

[EppyGA]

Welcome back to aviation Mike and good luck on your journey.

 

[dmccormack]

Wow. With that rule, I must be a horrible pilot! 4.0 of dual after a one year layoff!

It's a "rule of thumb."

It helps frame the prospect for the guy with a 10 year layoff. That way he doesn't expect an hour of dual and then a sign off.

 

[ISUHawkeye]

Welcome back. I also had an 8 year break from flying. Thanks to Tony and a few others I. Have been back at it. Enjoy your return to flight

 

[Henning]

Looks like I'll be getting back into the cockpit after a long layover in life.

I'm 48 and when I pulled my log book out yesterday, it showed 8 years since my last flight.

I learned on a 150 that I purchased in partners with my flight instructor. We sold the plane when he didn't want his CFI any longer, but we made lots of fun flights in that thing.

After that I bought into a 10 member flying club with a 172 with about 5 active flyer's, so booking was easy. I never liked the way the club put cost above maintenance and I ended up getting out. A member shortly thereafter stuffed the plane into the ground VFR into IMC. Everyone knew it was coming, be we liked him nonetheless.

So here I am, with my little flight bag that's 10 years old, all my goodies that people wouldn't recognize. If any of you scuba dive, I reminiscent of the guy that shows up to the dive boat with an old horse collar.

I've been lurking here and it seems like the biggest thing that has changed is the avionics. No big surprise, I expected that. I flew with GPS 8 years ago, but things have just progressed to a point where I don't even know the abbreviations!

I've never seen a glass cockpit, but I don't imagine that will figure into my training for checkout and beyond.

I've had two engine failures, one complete failure with restart after what seemed like hours and another partial failure. One was on my way to my Private check ride in Nashua NH.

I've decided to over complicate this, like I do everything else, and learn as much about the changes in aviation before getting in the left seat. I am going to re-join AOPA I suppose, because it looks like they have a pretty good section on this.

I've got lots of IFR training hours, but I don't have the time it takes to make this a reality before and after I were to be rated. I love training, which is why I have so many hours under the hood.

No problems with the medical, I just haven't done it yet.

Any advice would be really appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Tell ya what, find a flight school with G-1000 equipped 172s. It'll probably take you 10 hrs to get to know the equipment, and once you do, you'll be able to work any of the Garmin equipment relatively easily. The Bendix King stuff is really simple to figure out with a manual and 10 minutes.

You can use the same 10 hrs to brush off the rust and even get a few hours under the hood. If you like training, just keep on going and get your IR done over the next few weeks. If you do your IR in a G-1000 172, you'll pretty much be up to speed on modern equipment. Put a few hours hood time in with a six pack and KNS 89/90/94 series GPS and you'll be ready for most of what you can rent in the US. Problem with flying the latest generation stuff is that you won't want to step backwards, and there is a pretty stiff price delta. I've been flying over 20 years and have owned several planes. After several years without a plane and little flying (the last flight I did before the end of August when I got my MES rating was Dec-09) I've recently bought an old 310 and it is currently getting an upgrade to the panel with a G-500, 430W and engine instrument that will cost more than the plane did, but after having used similar, spotting the advantages are a no brainer.

 

[Mike Boehler]

Mike tell us where you live and perhaps we can direct you to a good CFI or flight school or even get airborn with one of us. We have POAers from Washington to Florida and California to Maine.

I did my primary training at 4B1 (Duansburg NY) still live about 35 minutes away, did some recurrent stuff and my flying club was at NY0 (Fulton County NY Johnstown), this place is 40 minutes or so from home, not sure of either FBO's having training ops though.

The closest major player is SCH (Schenectady County Airport), they are at least 50 minutes from me.

All doable, but the farther you get, you know what happens.

Tell ya what, find a flight school with G-1000 equipped 172s. It'll probably take you 10 hrs to get to know the equipment, and once you do, you'll be able to work any of the Garmin equipment relatively easily. The Bendix King stuff is really simple to figure out with a manual and 10 minutes.

You can use the same 10 hrs to brush off the rust and even get a few hours under the hood. If you like training, just keep on going and get your IR done over the next few weeks. If you do your IR in a G-1000 172, you'll pretty much be up to speed on modern equipment. Put a few hours hood time in with a six pack and KNS 89/90/94 series GPS and you'll be ready for most of what you can rent in the US. Problem with flying the latest generation stuff is that you won't want to step backwards, and there is a pretty stiff price delta. I've been flying over 20 years and have owned several planes. After several years without a plane and little flying (the last flight I did before the end of August when I got my MES rating was Dec-09) I've recently bought an old 310 and it is currently getting an upgrade to the panel with a G-500, 430W and engine instrument that will cost more than the plane did, but after having used similar, spotting the advantages are a no brainer.

Thanks for that info, I will check into what is available. When you live in the middle of nowhere, the choices are tough. I'm going to do some web searches for the G1000 to familiarize myself with it, at least so I know what it is and what it does.


Thanks to all others who have responded. I appreciate it.

Mike

 

[steingar]

The good news is that the laws of physics haven't changed appreciably, and the same aircraft you flew before are still pottiling around. There are some spanky new ones too. The high end avionics have changed something fierce, but there are still guys flying around who've never seen a glass anything and still do it all with needles and gauges. Not saying you shouldn't get up to snuff on the new stuff, just that you don't have to in order to fly. Welcome back.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

It's a "rule of thumb."

It helps frame the prospect for the guy with a 10 year layoff. That way he doesn't expect an hour of dual and then a sign off.

I'm not impressed with that rule. By that one, I would have required more dual to get back up to speed than I had needed to get my P.P. in the first place.

10 or so hours will work just as well for someone who has been off 15 years as someone who has been off 30...

 

[Mike Boehler]

Old Dog, New tricks vs New Dog, New Tricks?? Possibly.

I took 12 to solo the first time, if it takes 10 it takes 10..Doesn't really matter, its all part of the deal for me. I don't mind buzzing around dual for a while.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Old Dog, New tricks vs New Dog, New Tricks?? Possibly.

I took 12 to solo the first time, if it takes 10 it takes 10..Doesn't really matter, its all part of the deal for me. I don't mind buzzing around dual for a while.

Yup. I had a blast pounding out landings in a POS 150. Flying is Flying. Even if there is someone sitting in the right seat.

 

[poadeleted20]

A good rule of thumb is an hour for each year off before you're proficient enough to get signed off.

My 37 years experience as a CFI tells me there's no such "good rule of thumb" for getting back in the saddle -- just too many variables at work, including total experience and level of proficiency before the layoff.

As for the OP's question, I think that Flight Instructor Refresher Courses provide an excellent ground training review for the returning pilot. They'll usually give a cut rate if you're "auditing" rather than doing it for renewal of a CFI ticket, too. Get that done, and then get with an instructor and an airplane.

 

[Mike Boehler]

My 37 years experience as a CFI tells me there's no such "good rule of thumb" for getting back in the saddle -- just too many variables at work, including total experience and level of proficiency before the layoff.

As for the OP's question, I think that Flight Instructor Refresher Courses provide an excellent ground training review for the returning pilot. They'll usually give a cut rate if you're "auditing" rather than doing it for renewal of a CFI ticket, too. Get that done, and then get with an instructor and an airplane.

Ron:

Thanks for that input.

Could I get more info on the Flight Instructor Refresher Course? I will do a search but you could probably give me more first hand info.

I assume I don't have CFI supervision for this curriculum or you wouldn't have said "Get that done, and then get with an instructor and an airplane".

Also, can you elaborate on the "auditing" comment?

Thanks again,

Mike

 

[poadeleted20]

Could I get more info on the Flight Instructor Refresher Course? I will do a search but you could probably give me more first hand info.

Flight Instructors must renew their CFI's every two years. One way (probably the most popular among non-full-timers) is to take a ground school "referesher course" (FIRC) of at least 16 hours duration. There are also internet FIRC's, but for a returnee, that would lose the direct feedback possible in a classroom situation. A search on "Flight Instructor Refresher Course" will produce a large list of providers, but in your situation, I recommend AOPA's weekend clinics, given all over the country. See http://www.aopa.org/asf/firc/index.html for more.

I assume I don't have CFI supervision for this curriculum or you wouldn't have said "Get that done, and then get with an instructor and an airplane".

You do if you do it at an in-person clinic (CFI's teach the course), but it's not one-on-one. You don't if you do it over the internet.

Also, can you elaborate on the "auditing" comment?

Because the clinic operator is usually doing the CFI renewal paperwork for the attendee, they may offer a discount if you're not a CFI and taking it just for review (saves them time and effort), and AOPA used to do that -- not sure if they still do.

 

[Mike Boehler]

Flight Instructors must renew their CFI's every two years. One way (probably the most popular among non-full-timers) is to take a ground school "referesher course" (FIRC) of at least 16 hours duration. There are also internet FIRC's, but for a returnee, that would lose the direct feedback possible in a classroom situation. A search on "Flight Instructor Refresher Course" will produce a large list of providers, but in your situation, I recommend AOPA's weekend clinics, given all over the country. See http://www.aopa.org/asf/firc/index.html for more.

You do if you do it at an in-person clinic (CFI's teach the course), but it's not one-on-one. You don't if you do it over the internet.

Because the clinic operator is usually doing the CFI renewal paperwork for the attendee, they may offer a discount if you're not a CFI and taking it just for review (saves them time and effort), and AOPA used to do that -- not sure if they still do.

Awesome stuff

Thanks

Mike

 

[AdamZ]

Looking at airnav NY0 Has rentals and flight training http://www.airnav.com/airport/NY0/195_FACTORY

Duanesburg only has 6 planes on field but perhaps one belongs to a CFI who gives instruction.

 

[poadeleted20]

Not saying you shouldn't get up to snuff on the new stuff, just that you don't have to in order to fly.

Considering everything that has changed in the last 8 years, I'd have to disagree. SFRA's (and not just the one in DC -- there's one just down the Hudson from him, too), FRZ's, etc., not to mention all the Part 61 changes two years ago, mandate a few hours of ground training even if his stick-and-rudder skills are magically undiminished by time. Heck, Sport Pilot and LSA didn't even exist when he last flew!

 

[steingar]

I was referring more to advanced avionics, which had been a persistent topic. New rules implemented since his layoff should be part of the BFR.

 

[AWACSEng]

Ron, by chance do the CFI refesher courses count towards the ground instruction required for the Flight Review, or are they just informational for the non-CFI?

 

[poadeleted20]

Ron, by chance do the CFI refesher courses count towards the ground instruction required for the Flight Review, or are they just informational for the non-CFI?

The reg specifically limits that credit to those holding a current flight instructor certificate.

 

[dmccormack]

An excellent source to get current on the knowledge portion is the American Flyers Flight Review course. You get a certificate at the end, but more important it covers just about all you'd need to cover to have workable knowledge of the regs and such.

And I'll stick by the "rule of thumb," as the intent is to help someone who has been out for a while understand that it will take some time, and more time away means more rust to remove. Even if it's been 37 years.

 

[Mike Boehler]

An excellent source to get current on the knowledge portion is the American Flyers Flight Review course. You get a certificate at the end, but more important it covers just about all you'd need to cover to have workable knowledge of the regs and such.

And I'll stick by the "rule of thumb," as the intent is to help someone who has been out for a while understand that it will take some time, and more time away means more rust to remove. Even if it's been 37 years.

Thanks Dan, appreciate it.

 

[AWACSEng]

The reg specifically limits that credit to those holding a current flight instructor certificate.

That's too bad. Perhaps more pilots would attend these courses if they got something more than personal knowledge out of them. I guess that's what WINGS and FAAST seminars are for.

 

[silver-eagle]

That's too bad. Perhaps more pilots would attend these courses if they got something more than personal knowledge out of them. I guess that's what WINGS and FAAST seminars are for.

WINGS is a great source of information. FAASAFETY.GOV. AOPA/ASF courses are also pointed to by WINGS and those credits can be applied. You can also check out the books from the FAA library: Airplane Flying Handbook, Instrument Flying Handbook, etc.
Find a good CFI and go fly. Work on the rest as you recert. You have to have fun!

 

[AWACSEng]

I agree about all of the resources out there. I've perused many of them. I just finished my flight review the old fashioned way, one on one with a CFI.

 

[Mike Boehler]

WINGS is a great source of information. FAASAFETY.GOV. AOPA/ASF courses are also pointed to by WINGS and those credits can be applied. You can also check out the books from the FAA library: Airplane Flying Handbook, Instrument Flying Handbook, etc.
Find a good CFI and go fly. Work on the rest as you recert. You have to have fun!

I agree about all of the resources out there. I've perused many of them. I just finished my flight review the old fashioned way, one on one with a CFI.

You guys may be on to something, although it does not exactly fit my biological need to overthink everything.

Got a call into a flight school I found online that is based 15 minutes from me. They employ 4 CFI's and rent planes when checked out. Waiting for the call back. If I don't hear from them by tomorrow, I'll call them again. Basically left a message with someone there telling them my situation and asking for advice on proceeding.

 

[AWACSEng]

Making the call is the hard part. The rest is all about the joy of flying!

 

[Henning]

I was referring more to advanced avionics, which had been a persistent topic.

Anymore though and that really depends. There are places where planes with advanced avionics are becoming the norm for planes you can rent, and a lot of the older birds you can find still have a 430 or 530 in them. While you can make one work as a simple nav/com effectively with no training, getting to make use of all the rest of the features takes a fair few hours, and getting comfortable programming in revisions to your clearance while hand flying in IMC takes a fair few more even. Quite a few places I've looked at rentals in the past few years that had 3 generation old panels were some pretty rough aircraft that I wasn't particularly happy about flying.