Babbitt + DUI

Per my post above, Mr. Babbit will be getting off quite easy...

Let me comment about Bruce's comments about habituation... In a previous lifetime I was in a drug and alcohol withdrawal clinic - ummm, not as a patient, let me hastily point out...
We had a businessman from the Detroit area call and arrange to be admitted for rehab... He drive upstate on I-75 in his car... Talked to the guard at the booth and moved his car to the long term parking lot... Carried his suitcase to the front desk and schmoozed with the receptionist... Rode the elevator upstairs to the clinic floor... Schmoozed with the admitting clerk, schmoozed with the nurses and house keeping staff as they got him settled.. They loved him and told me they could not understand what he was doing in our clinic...
His admitting blood level for ETOH came back at 0.42....

He went into DT's - screaming, snakes, the whole nine yards... At one point I had to start an ethanol drip plus Nitroprusside - his systolic blood pressure hit 260 and was not at all responsive to oral meds plus he was hallucinating and thrashing out of control... At the mid point of the 3rd day I thought we would lose him and that is when I started the ethanol drip... It took five days before he could be managed without the IV drugs and even then I had him on a Q4h Phenobarbital ladder IM for another day and a half...
His is the most spectacular case I had... He was also partly the reason I quit doing withdrawal treatment... Too depressing... It was either get away from it or start drinking myself...

denny-o
 
Bob Noel said:
sidejack: the traffic accident statistics from the NHSTA do no support the belief that cell phone usage while driving is dangerous. Over the period when cell phone usage exploded, the accident rates were flat or went down slightly.
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Many factors contribute to the overall accident rate but:

Also in January 2010 the National Safety Council (NSC) released a report that estimates that at least 1.6 million crashes (28 percent of all crashes) are caused each year by drivers talking on cellphones (1.4 million crashes) and texting (200,000 crashes). The estimate is based on data of driver cellphone use from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and from peer-reviewed research that quantifies the risks using cellphones and texting while driving.
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I would suggest you do a quick Google search and you'll find all kinds of add'l studies & data that reinforce my original statement.
 
Dr. O said:
Per my post above, Mr. Babbit will be getting off quite easy...

Let me comment about Bruce's comments about habituation... In a previous lifetime I was in a drug and alcohol withdrawal clinic - ummm, not as a patient, let me hastily point out...
We had a businessman from the Detroit area call and arrange to be admitted for rehab... He drive upstate on I-75 in his car... Talked to the guard at the booth and moved his car to the long term parking lot... Carried his suitcase to the front desk and schmoozed with the receptionist... Rode the elevator upstairs to the clinic floor... Schmoozed with the admitting clerk, schmoozed with the nurses and house keeping staff as they got him settled.. They loved him and told me they could not understand what he was doing in our clinic...
His admitting blood level for ETOH came back at 0.42....

He went into DT's - screaming, snakes, the whole nine yards... At one point I had to start an ethanol drip plus Nitroprusside - his systolic blood pressure hit 260 and was not at all responsive to oral meds plus he was hallucinating and thrashing out of control... At the mid point of the 3rd day I thought we would lose him and that is when I started the ethanol drip... It took five days before he could be managed without the IV drugs and even then I had him on a Q4h Phenobarbital ladder IM for another day and a half...
His is the most spectacular case I had... He was also partly the reason I quit doing withdrawal treatment... Too depressing... It was either get away from it or start drinking myself...

denny-o
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.42 ?? Holy crap.:hairraise::hairraise::hairraise::yikes::yikes:......

My next question is............................ What liver ??:dunno::dunno::nonod:
 
That's pretty amazing. How on earth do you stay hydrated enough to function. Not to mention liver. I hope he made a recovery
 
timwinters said:
Many factors contribute to the overall accident rate but:



I would suggest you do a quick Google search and you'll find all kinds of add'l studies & data that reinforce my original statement.
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Of course many factors contribute.

I stand by my statement wrt the NHTSA accidents figures. If cellphone usage is so dangerous, we should have seen a large increase in accident rates during the time period when cell phone usage went from zero to almost-everyone-doing-it. But the annual accident rates went down or were flat. Why?

Google will show all sorts of studies of the risks of not paying attention, the risks from being distracted. And cellphones are one the latest things to create possible distractions for drivers.

What is apparently missing in an explanation of why the accident rates have not gone up and up and up.

btw - I picked accident rates rather than fatalities or injuries because of increased usage of car safety features such as seatbelts, airbags, and better crash protection in general.
 
John Baker said:
:idea:

Perhaps the best way to resolve our drunk driving problem is to simply execute, on the spot, anyone who fails or refuses to comply with a field sobriety test. To compensate officers for having to carry out an execution on the spot, they could be awarded a thousand dollar bonus, which could be charged to the criminals family or estate.
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The Nazi regime charged the families of political prisoners the cost of executing them.
 
bluee said:
The Nazi regime charged the families of political prisoners the cost of executing them.
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So? It seems to me our government has been emulating more than a few methods of the Nazis in the last few years, so they make one more little addition, it should be no big deal. All they have to do to gain public acceptance is to run a few ads about protecting the children and such. :stirpot:

John
 
Bob Noel said:
If cellphone usage is so dangerous, we should have seen a large increase in accident rates during the time period when cell phone usage went from zero to almost-everyone-doing-it. But the annual accident rates went down or were flat. Why?.
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Possibly because at about the same time that cell use "went from zero to almost-everyone-doing-it" alcohol use went from almost-everyone-doing-it to zero. Okay, "zero" is a gross exaggeration but drinking and driving has declined dramatically in the last 20 years. Statistics indicate it's down roughly 50%.

And as was mentioned before; there are countless other things that affect not only the death rates but the accident rates also: Improved roads, traction control, anti-lock brakes, etc. etc.

I find it mildly humorous the state of denial that many cell users are in...exactly like the addicted alcoholic.
 
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I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles on various roads from the LIE at 6 AM to midnight on I-15 across Utah while conducting business on a cell phone.

There is no correlation between drunk driving and cell pone use and to imply such is sloppy red herring-ism.
 
dmccormack said:
I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles on various roads from the LIE at 6 AM to midnight on I-15 across Utah while conducting business on a cell phone.

There is no correlation between drunk driving and cell pone use and to imply such is sloppy red herring-ism.
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i know guys who get drunk every night at my dads bar and have for the last 25 years and drive home every night and have never gotten a DUI.
 
tonycondon said:
i know guys who get drunk every night at my dads bar and have for the last 25 years and drive home every night and have never gotten a DUI.
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So?

:dunno:

You're implying that talking on a cell phone while driving is "getting away" with risky behavior equally risky as the drunks driving home.

It's not risky, as there is no proof that talking on a cell reduces driving acuity (Texting is a different matter).

FWIW I use a Bluetooth earpiece device and before that used a plug in headset in the car.
 
No red herring at all, Dan, there are much data out there showing that cell phone use is just as dangerous as driving while impaired. It's also been shown that the longer the conversation, the more your brain leaves the task of driving.

But we're all free to believe what we want to believe. I know I do.

Just to be clear, I'm not defending and/or condoning any of it; impaired or distracted. I just think there is a lot of "glass houses and rocks" going down here.

As an aside: We've certainly come a LONG way since the mid/late '70s when we, as high school kids in my home town, used to throw keg parties in our city park. The cops would give us park permits to do so. It was a lesser of two evils thing. Everyone knew where every kid in town was.

We've come a LONG way.

dmccormack said:
FWIW I use a Bluetooth earpiece device and before that used a plug in headset in the car.
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And there are ample studies out there showing that handsfree is no safer.
 
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dmccormack said:
So?

:dunno:

You're implying that talking on a cell phone while driving is "getting away" with risky behavior equally risky as the drunks driving home.

It's not risky, as there is no proof that talking on a cell reduces driving acuity (Texting is a different matter).

FWIW I use a Bluetooth earpiece device and before that used a plug in headset in the car.
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Studies have shown, your blue tooth headset does nothing in the safety department over just holding your phone to your ear, you're still distracted by the conversation not by what area of space your hand happens to be occupying.

I can spot a cell phone talker from a mile away. It's become a sport driving to the hangar and spotting them. I'm about 95% accurate.
 
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bartmc said:
Studies have shown, your blue tooth headset does nothing in the safety department over just holding your phone to your ear, you're still distracted by the conversation not by what area of space your hand happens to be occupying.

I can spot a cell phone talker from a mile away. It's become a sport driving to the hangar and spotting them. I'm about 95% accurate.
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Studies! Oh! Well there we have it...

:rofl:

Whatever -- I'll continue to listen to books on the iPod, and take and receive calls as I have been since 1994 (driving about 500k miles in that time).
 
John Baker said:
:idea:

Perhaps the best way to resolve our drunk driving problem is to simply execute, on the spot, anyone who fails or refuses to comply with a field sobriety test. To compensate officers for having to carry out an execution on the spot, they could be awarded a thousand dollar bonus, which could be charged to the criminals family or estate.

This would encourage all peace officers to be especially diligent in hunting down drunk drivers. It would save jail space and court time, and rid our streets and highways of a scourge on all mankind.

Another benefit to all of us would that it would cut back on the earths population explosion.

Screw em, they're nothing but worthless drunks anyway.

John
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Works for me. Why don't you start a White House petition?
 
Heard a good definition today that might fit this thread.

Principle. n. A technicality you agree with.
 
John Baker said:
The clown was driving down the wrong side of the road. That is not something a serious drunk would do at all.

People who have become habituated to alcohol seem able, for the most part, to function fairly normally while on their drug. I know these things because at one time I was married to a drunk, it was actually hard to tell when she had been drinking. She drove and functioned normally after drinking an amount of booze that would turn me into a blubbering idiot.
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A "serious drunk" (multiple DUI convictions, suspended license etc) hallucinated that a red light was green and rear ended my stopped motorcycle going 30 MPH. I was pinned between his full-size GMC van and an F150, and came damn close to loosing my legs. I really don't have any particular tolerance for drunk drivers, serious or amateur.
 
dmccormack said:
Studies! Oh! Well there we have it...

:rofl:

Whatever -- I'll continue to listen to books on the iPod, and take and receive calls as I have been since 1994 (driving about 500k miles in that time).
Click to expand...

It's kind of not even arguable that earpieces don't do squat to increase your safety over just holding the phone to your ear, this is common knowledge.

Just click this here google query and you'll see

https://www.google.com/search?aq=1&...,cf.osb&fp=2e1c1dc72193e60e&biw=1600&bih=1109

If it's your preference to use one over holding the phone even in the face of the stigma associated with them, by all means be my guest but don't suggest that they're in any way shape form of fashion increasing safety while you drive your phone booth down the road.
 
bartmc said:
It's kind of not even arguable that earpieces don't do squat to increase your safety over just holding the phone to your ear, this is common knowledge.

Just click this here google query and you'll see

https://www.google.com/search?aq=1&...,cf.osb&fp=2e1c1dc72193e60e&biw=1600&bih=1109

If it's your preference to use one over holding the phone even in the face of the stigma associated with them, by all means be my guest but don't suggest that they're in any way shape form of fashion increasing safety while you drive your phone booth down the road.
Click to expand...

Oh, so the debate is over and the science is settled, eh?

Well, since that's the case... :wink2:
 
timwinters said:
We've come a LONG way.
Click to expand...

But are we in a better place?

timwinters said:
And there are ample studies out there showing that handsfree is no safer.
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If it's the conversation that is distracting, then what about talking to passengers? I'm going to start a petition NO MORE PASSENGERS! Especially passengers under 2 years old who can cry fuss and complain and thus distract the driver! Driving with 2 year olds is worse than Driving Drunk!!! [\sarcasm off]

I actually find that the tedium of driving can zone me out and at times it's better for me to be talking to someone so I don't zone totally out. The problem isn't the cell phone; the problem is the driver and the driver not being able to correctly decide what should have first priority. There are several times when I'm talking to my mom while driving I say hold on and drop the phone. Usually then I describe what I'm doing that needs my full attention to the air so if she's still listening she knows that I'm ok and speaking the process helps to focus the task.

The biggest problem with distracted driving is that everyone thinks they have a right to drive and we have very poor training and minimum testing requirements. The answer is public transportation and an end to driver’s licenses as an entitlement.
 
driving with a two year old screaming in the back seat probably is as distracting as driving drunk
 
...ever watch a carful of 16 year olds pull out of the high school parking lot?
 
Pilots train to do multiple things at the same time. Your average driver can barely navigate point to point without diddling with the radio, CDs, yakking to their rightseater, or smacking the kids in the back seat.
I suggest that the main reason for not seeing an increase is cellphone use is JUST ONE MORE distraction.
Put the glass down, hang up, and just drive!
 
tonycondon said:
driving with a two year old screaming in the back seat probably is as distracting as driving drunk
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I agree, but I see no one rushing to ban driving with 2 year old passengers. :yesnod:

If you are going to drive you need to be able to handle distractions like a child in the back seat or talking on the phone. Sometimes you are driving and can do both, sometimes you have to ignore the distraction and just drive. The problem is that some people can't and really just shouldn't be allowed a licence.
 
Shoot, as long as this train thread is de-railed already...The issue shouldn't be that it's possible (or not possible) to safely drive drunk or while texting or with a crying baby. The issue should be whether people should drive under the influence or while texting or on their phone. For what it's worth, there are more accidents caused by people driving while tired than any of the above.

But I don't think we need to over-legislate everything. I'm all for DUI laws and even though I don't drink I think the BAC levels in most states are too low.

And I talk on the cell while driving all the time and it has not once caused a problem. But nothing flares my temper more than another driver doing something stupid because he's on the phone and not paying attention.
 
Motorola T505 Bluetooth speakerphone. Cheap. Works great. Hangs on the visor. Best gift ever.

Even has an FM modulator if you want to pipe the audio, including tunes through the car stereo, but I don't bother. It works great standalone.

For really noisy environs, the Blue Parrot bluetooth headset. You can stick your head under the hood of a running car and the person on the other end probably wouldn't know.

Best noise cancellation I've found yet. Think Kent here might have turned me on to it, shows up on a lot of trucker websites.
 
bbchien said:
...ever watch a carful of 16 year olds pull out of the high school parking lot?
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Yup - and being smart doesn't improve matters. My wife and daughter were rear-ended by the kid who became valedictorian in his class a couple years ago.

Dave
 
So to be clear about the whole cell phone thing...

The folks who dislike people operating a motor vehicle while holding a discussion via electronic device...are YOU the guys who come into my uncontrolled field and never make any CTAF position announcements?:smilewinkgrin:
 
Morne said:
So to be clear about the whole cell phone thing...

The folks who dislike people operating a motor vehicle while holding a discussion via electronic device...are YOU the guys who come into my uncontrolled field and never make any CTAF position announcements?:smilewinkgrin:
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Apples... Oranges...
 
Morne said:
So to be clear about the whole cell phone thing...

The folks who dislike people operating a motor vehicle while holding a discussion via electronic device...are YOU the guys who come into my uncontrolled field and never make any CTAF position announcements?:smilewinkgrin:
Click to expand...

Nope, we come in and ask that any traffic in the area please advise.... ;)
 
tonycondon said:
driving with a two year old screaming in the back seat probably is as distracting as driving drunk
Click to expand...

bbchien said:
...ever watch a carful of 16 year olds pull out of the high school parking lot?
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:

Gerhardt said:
Shoot, as long as this train thread is de-railed already...The issue shouldn't be that it's possible (or not possible) to safely drive drunk or while texting or with a crying baby. The issue should be whether people should drive under the influence or while texting or on their phone. For what it's worth, there are more accidents caused by people driving while tired than any of the above.

But I don't think we need to over-legislate everything. I'm all for DUI laws and even though I don't drink I think the BAC levels in most states are too low.

And I talk on the cell while driving all the time and it has not once caused a problem. But nothing flares my temper more than another driver doing something stupid because he's on the phone and not paying attention.
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I don't think that we've ever really had a study about the effects that a young child (or oblivious teenaged) can have on driving. People who argue that cell phone usage with a handheld device is much worse than conversing with a passenger seem to say that it is because the other party on the phone cannot see that there's a situation demanding the driver's full attention. I would argue that a 2 year old is no more capable of recognizing that situation, and is likely more demanding of the driver's attention. And as for teenagers? :yikes:

The thing is that it would be political suicide for any lawmaker to suggest characterizing parents transporting their young'uns as being unsafe or dangerous. What are they going to do, demand the installation of sound- and light-proof barriers between the front and rear seats? Like that's not going to get a parent all worried!

And I agree that driving while tired is dangerous. It brings to mind an old episode of Quincy, where he is pulled over as a suspicious driver because he's hanging his head out the window, trying to keep awake, while weaving down the highway. And that show was in the 70's, so it's not as if that problem is newly discovered. How do you test for it, though?
 
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