B-1 Bomber Crash

jaybee said:
Air Force carries insurance on their assets just like any other company/business.
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And what are you insuring? You cant replace the plane - its no longer made...They own it outright, its not being "financed" in the traditional sense... and I suspect it was paid for a long time ago..
 
jaybee said:
As stated earlier in the thread a lot of the aircraft are leased and part of the lease agreement includes insurance premiums.
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Define "a lot". There are remarkably few aircraft that are leased, and those are covered by the federal government if the damage or loss occurs due to government action (as in self-insured). And as noted, the proposed leased tankers were purchased instead.
Also note that the proposed language made the Air Force liable for uninsurable risks, and they would indemnify the owner.

The federal government does not and cannot buy insurance. Government vehicles, property, and aircraft are self-insured by the federal government. Period.
Google the Federal Tort Claims Act.

I have worked for the federal government for several years, and we run into issues constantly where leasing or renting property normally requires proof of insurance. HQ has a "certificate of self insurance" (which is something someone made up in a PDF) stating that the government is its own insurer.

This is NOT always the case with local governments. Many local governments do have either commercial insurance, or go through a risk sharing pool where multiple governments share the risk and pay premiums to the pool, or self-insure, depending on size.
Or they self insure for some risks, and get commercial or pool insurance for others.
 
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jaybee said:
Air Force carries insurance on their assets just like any other company/business.
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Not likely, I've not heard of the feds insuring anything. They have a large enough pool of assets that self-insurance is really far more effective.
 
The bad news is that the pilots are responsible for the deductible.

denverpilot said:
That is insurance against a flaw created by the manufacturer. Ain't an insurance company in the world that will insure a weapon of war in wartime, and rarely in training for such.

Bet you dig into that policy and training accidents aren't covered at all.
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When the DoD buys airplanes like the B-1, they factor in attrition to maintain the required number of operational aircraft by including provisions for losses by accidents in peacetime. That's the only form of "insurance" for weapon systems.

Cheers
 
PilotAlan said:
The federal government does not and cannot buy insurance. Government vehicles, property, and aircraft are self-insured by the federal government. Period.
Google the Federal Tort Claims Act.
/QUOTE]

But they can buy whole insurance companies as an investment. (AIG)
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denverpilot said:
PilotAlan said:
The federal government does not and cannot buy insurance. Government vehicles, property, and aircraft are self-insured by the federal government. Period.
Google the Federal Tort Claims Act.
/QUOTE]

But they can buy whole insurance companies as an investment. (AIG)
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Nate.. Please ignore that trivial little detail......

Now..... As a good little sheeple, don't attempt to put two and two together again...:no:;):D
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denverpilot said:
If you mean it'll drop different and smarter munitions from the same bomb racks, sure.
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Not the "same racks", the racks are swapped out dependent on the weapon being carried.

When you have a B-1 doing CAS (Close Air Support) and delivering laser guided munitions, one or two at a time or delivering the entire load in one delivery. That's fire power.
 
Matthew said:
Didn't the B1, at least early versions, have an ejection module instead of indvidual seats?
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The R&D birds at Edwards AFB had the module like the F-111 had. The production models went to individual seats. The module was heavy for "ejection" and the safe ejection envelope was small. Individual seats increased probability of survival and increased the safe ejection range.
 
jaybee said:
As stated earlier in the thread a lot of the aircraft are leased and part of the lease agreement includes insurance premiums.
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Tankers and Cargo aircraft might be leased if there is a civilian version.

Fighters and Bombers are not leased.
 
BillTIZ said:
Tankers and Cargo aircraft might be leased if there is a civilian version.

Fighters and Bombers are not leased.
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AMC doesn't lease aircraft but does contract for airfreight delivery. The USN also contracts for aerial refueling services shoreside.

Cheers
 
They are practicing today in Billings. A Lancer just came over my property in a fairly steep bank at less then 2000'. Gets pretty loud in the building.
 
N321SR said:
They are practicing today in Billings. A Lancer just came over my property in a fairly steep bank at less then 2000'. Gets pretty loud in the building.
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I bet not as loud as an alert launch of the 17th Bomb Wing on a hot August day straining to clear our building in line with the end of the runway @ WPAFB back in the day.:D
 
X3 Skier said:
I bet not as loud as an alert launch of the 17th Bomb Wing on a hot August day straining to clear our building in line with the end of the runway @ WPAFB back in the day.:D
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I've heard most everything, and would say the F-22 and the B-1 are the loudest so far. I understand the F-35 is even worse.
 
Loudest thing I've had to experience is the Harrier, they were hurting people at OSH with that bloody thing.
 
Loudest thing I've ever heard was an RV-8 doing a zoom climb at 140 kts. Broke my ear drums.
 
Henning said:
Loudest thing I've had to experience is the Harrier, they were hurting people at OSH with that bloody thing.
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Yeah, the Harrier is pretty bad. Worse, they love to hover it for minutes at a time right in front of the crowd. The other loud stuff comes and goes in a few seconds...
 
kyleb said:
Yeah, the Harrier is pretty bad. Worse, they love to hover it for minutes at a time right in front of the crowd. The other loud stuff comes and goes in a few seconds...
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Give the pilot a break. It takes some time to work on that chubby in front of all those people. ;)
 
kyleb said:
I've heard most everything, and would say the F-22 and the B-1 are the loudest so far. I understand the F-35 is even worse.
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I've heard the Harrier every year for many years. The F-22 at OSH did a sharply banked turn away from the crowd, directing the exhaust right at us -- and caused me physical pain.

Loudest thing I've ever heard.
 
kyleb said:
I've heard most everything, and would say the F-22 and the B-1 are the loudest so far. I understand the F-35 is even worse.
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The F-35 is very loud.

B-1 fly by at the airshow, 500ft AGL, .95M and accelerating in fill AB. Now that's loud. I'm sure there are a few ranchers in WY and MT that can attest to it.

Two ship B-1 departure at Nellis, formation takeoff, one on each parralle runway. Car alarms all the way down the flightlne parking lots gong off from the vibrations.
 
F-22 is not that loud.....we make waaay more noise, mainly because we cling to min/max blower to get to a safe airspeed much longer than they do. It is a cool airplane but it isn't hurtfully loud in any sense unless you are a 3 yr old girl

edit: sorry Jay, that came off as a lot more rude than I meant.....just ribbing you. They can be damn loud for sure
 
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35 AoA said:
F-22 is not that loud.....we make waaay more noise, mainly because we cling to min/max blower to get to a safe airspeed much longer than they do. It is a cool airplane but it isn't hurtfully loud in any sense unless you are a 3 yr old girl
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I'd second that. Then again it's more about proximity than the actual level of noise a jet puts out. Filming Hornets doing FCLPs next to the runway with LSO is bone rattling loud. Tied with that would be taking pictures of cat launches on the Stennis. Much more violent than I imagined even with double hearing protection. F-14s, F-18s, EA6s. They all rattle your insides when you're that close.
 
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I don't think anyone actually believes me when I tell this story, but it is no kidding true.....loudest experience of my life was standing next to an F404 on an engine test stand on the fantail of the ship when it went to max A/B. I also touched the turkey feathers with my bare hand as they lit off the blower. Barely even warm to the touch. Probably really dumb thing to do, but there were a couple mechs standing by that had demonstrated it without injury :) It was so loud you couldn't hear yourself yell/scream, and it also really sucks the air out of your lungs.

One noise that has always struck me as really weird is the noise you hear from the bow/crotch area when someone traps and goes to mil/max. Real ghostly howl from the compressors/fans but not a lot of other noise.
 
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Back when I was working the F-22/F-23 and the F119 engine, the development of the engine was done in PWA's West Palm Beach facility. The open air test stands were located out one the edge of the swamps. When the F119 was in full blower, the gators would crawl up on the concrete and lay flat getting a really good belly massage from the vibrations thru the test stand to the ground.

If you were outside the control cab, the engine would set up some vibs in my chest depending where you stood that felt really weird. Even with a set of earplugs and tight fitting Mickey Mouse ears it was hard to hear anything over the radio.

Cheers
 
35 AoA said:
F-22 is not that loud.....we make waaay more noise, mainly because we cling to min/max blower to get to a safe airspeed much longer than they do. It is a cool airplane but it isn't hurtfully loud in any sense unless you are a 3 yr old girl

edit: sorry Jay, that came off as a lot more rude than I meant.....just ribbing you. They can be damn loud for sure
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D

No problem -- I've been called worse! :D

I think it was a combination of circumstances at OSH that year that made the Raptor so loud, including proximity, relative wind, and being precisely where he suddenly banked away, vectoring that thrust and noise directly into my right ear. It hurt like hell.
 
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X3 Skier said:
Back when I was working the F-22/F-23 and the F119 engine, the development of the engine was done in PWA's West Palm Beach facility. The open air test stands were located out one the edge of the swamps. When the F119 was in full blower, the gators would crawl up on the concrete and lay flat getting a really good belly massage from the vibrations thru the test stand to the ground.

If you were outside the control cab, the engine would set up some vibs in my chest depending where you stood that felt really weird. Even with a set of earplugs and tight fitting Mickey Mouse ears it was hard to hear anything over the radio.

Cheers
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Pretty cool! Sad fate that met the F-23 demonstrator(s) I must say, but then again, the F-22 is pretty incredible today.

Had a chance to poke my head around an F-22 at Nellis, and got a cockpit fam/sat down in it, and it was really impressive just how big the thing is.....looking back over your shoulder, there is just about an acre of fighter behind you.
 
Jay Honeck said:
D

No problem -- I've been called worse! :D

I think it was a combination of circumstances at OSH that year that made the Raptor so loud, including proximity, relative wind, and being precisely where he suddenly banked away, vectoring that thrust and noise directly into my right ear. It hurt like hell.
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I was there and probably standing REAL close to you.. and yeah... it was ear splitting... but........... KOOL...:yesnod::yesnod::yes:
 
kyleb said:
Yeah, the Harrier is pretty bad. Worse, they love to hover it for minutes at a time right in front of the crowd. The other loud stuff comes and goes in a few seconds...
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Harriers are loud, but the F-35 is definitely WAY louder than the AV-8 when landing on the LHD. On takeoff, it doesn't seem too terribly loud. With the exception of the vertical landing, I'd say the Hornet is by far the loudest thing the Navy/Marine Corps has to offer.
 
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