Awww Dammit, anyway...

RotaryWingBob

RotaryWingBob

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iHover
We've had our R22 back for a couple of weeks now, and I've flown it 6 times since then. I have one partner who has his PP-RH but doesn't fly much. He went up with our CFI partner Friday, and they practiced autorotations. On the last one, he got the helicopter way out of whack and apparently twisted the throttle away from him instead of towards him. My CFI partner was busy getting the helicopter out of the unusual attitude (and wasn't watching the tach during that), but he suspects that the rotor may have been oversped. He told me that the RPM was in the yellow by the time he recovered from the bad attitude, but now is unsure if the RPM might have been at the red line during the recovery.

I flew it twice after that, but when I returned the R22 to N99 Saturday, my CFI partner was at the airport, and reviewed what had happened with me again, and said that he wasn't going to sleep well until we got the mandatory inspection done (mandatory when there is a rotor overspeed situation).

Since he can't be sure there was no overspeed, we agreed to ground the helicopter (except for hover practice, maybe) until we can get the inspection done.

Grounding the helo sucks, but it's better than having a transmission failure or something. Grrrrrrr.

Sorry about the vent. I just want to go flying, dammit!
 
Well, consider how bad it would be for everyone involved if you (the collective you...not just you) blew it off and then something tragic happened. Stuff goes wrong, things break, people goof up, ya move on. It's just money. Had to dust of the ole unit patch. 11th ACR was a great place to be. If you ain't CAV you ain't.
 
Yabut...

...you find nothing, you feel better.

you find something- you feel a lot better.

Stuff happens, but at least you don't have that "if I don't tell, maybe no one will find out" thing going on. That attitude kills people.
 
Fast n' Furious said:
Well, consider how bad it would be for everyone involved if you (the collective you...not just you) blew it off and then something tragic happened. Stuff goes wrong, things break, people goof up, ya move on. It's just money. Had to dust of the ole unit patch. 11th ACR was a great place to be. If you ain't CAV you ain't.
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No doubt about it -- the potential for damage in an overspeed is too great.

Hey, Cav -- I was 7th U.S. Cav with the first Cav, Custer's old unit. Garry Owen, y'all!
 
Garry Owen....now that's a pleasant little piece of history. Custer....what a yutz. I can just imagine. Horses? Check! Carbines? Check! Gatling Guns? Back at base, Sir! Okay, we go now! Hi ho Silver, away! Yeah, gotta watch them rotor overspeeds.
 
RotaryWingBob said:
No doubt about it -- the potential for damage in an overspeed is too great.

Hey, Cav -- I was 7th U.S. Cav with the first Cav, Custer's old unit. Garry Owen, y'all!
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I didn't know there was anything left of Custer's unit.

Bob, if it's a mandatory inspection, what are you doing flying it after the incident? Either it is or it isn't. Volunteer grounding, I can understand, but why ground the bird unless you seriously think it got into an overspeed condition. Ergo, it's not a volunteer grounding anymore. Which brings us back to my original question...

Even limiting the flights to hover practice would still be operations for the purpose of flight.

Perhaps you would care to clarify.
 
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Richard said:
Bob, if it's a mandatory inspection, what are you doing flying it after the incident? Either it is or it isn't. Volunteer grounding, I can understand, but why ground the bird unless you seriously think it got into an overspeed condition. Ergo, it's not a volunteer grounding anymore. Which brings us back to my original question...
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Not Bob, but it sounds like the overspeed itself was in question but they've decided to assume that an overspeed actually occurred. Is an inspection mandatory when there's only a suspicion that an overspeed might have occurred (vs an observed OS)?
 
I have to wonder how well about the effectiveness of a visual inspection is in detecting something that could become a real problem in 50?hrs. Kinda scary.
I have no idea how they make helos but I am imagining a couple of bolts loaded in shear? And with the excess centrifugal forces, the bolts may deform?
How hard can it be to have an audio alarm 5% before o'speed? Or at least a recording-type gauge, I have a 5$ thermometer that can do that.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I have to wonder how well about the effectiveness of a visual inspection is in detecting something that could become a real problem in 50?hrs. Kinda scary.
I have no idea how they make helos but I am imagining a couple of bolts loaded in shear? And with the excess centrifugal forces, the bolts may deform?
How hard can it be to have an audio alarm 5% before o'speed? Or at least a recording-type gauge, I have a 5$ thermometer that can do that.
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There are annunciators available. Plus, there is an overspeed limiter device available.

lancefisher said:
Not Bob, but it sounds like the overspeed itself was in question but they've decided to assume that an overspeed actually occurred. Is an inspection mandatory when there's only a suspicion that an overspeed might have occurred (vs an observed OS)?
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The way I read it the overspeed condition was in doubt. My concern was that Bob and his pards decided to ground it as if it really occurred but continued to fly it as if it hadn't occurred. Also, limited flight (ground hover only) would do squat to satisfy NTSB and others if a further incident were to occur.

NTSB would jump on decision for limited flight like white on rice. It would be interesting to hear how the insurance co would decide WRT the owner's suspicion that overspeed may have occurred yet continued to fly it.

Say an overspeed did occur. Would continued, albeit limited, flight cause further damage? If so, would it be correct for the ins co to deny a claim for that damage which occurred after the overspeed?
 
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So, if costly repairs are necessary, does insurance cover it? Does it cover the inspection? My guess is no on both counts.
 
lancefisher said:
So, if costly repairs are necessary, does insurance cover it? Does it cover the inspection? My guess is no on both counts.
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That raises an interesting question. Professionals, like architects and doctors, would be wise to carry E & O insurance. Does such a thing exist for machines which suffer damage resulting from errors in operations or for inspections to ascertain that damage?
 
lancefisher said:
Not Bob, but it sounds like the overspeed itself was in question but they've decided to assume that an overspeed actually occurred. Is an inspection mandatory when there's only a suspicion that an overspeed might have occurred (vs an observed OS)?
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Nobody is certain if it was an overspeed. It's a question of if it DID happen, what are the consequences? So yes, we decided to ASSUME that it happened, Lance. And no, the inspection is required only if you KNOW that the needle was in the red. Do I want to guess? No...

lancefisher said:
So, if costly repairs are necessary, does insurance cover it? Does it cover the inspection? My guess is no on both counts.
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Dunno... but it's more of a question of what I'm willing to fly... I know I'm preaching to the choir telling you that Lance!
 
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RotaryWingBob said:
Nobody is certain if it was an overspeed. It's a question of if it DID happen, what are the consequences? So yes, we decided to ASSUME that it happened, Lance. And no, the inspection is required only if you KNOW that the needle was in the red. Do I want to guess? No...
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That's what I figured. Getting it inspected is the right thing to do.
 
Re: Awww Dammit, anyway...(update)

We're getting the helicopter inspected this weekend. I'll post an update on what, if anything, turns up...

One thing's for sure -- I've got good partners -- my other partners all agreed with our decision to ground the helo, and to pay for the inspection.
 
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