Awesom aircraft

I can do that! :)

Can Patty Wagstaff?

That was a pretty cool flat spin. He had to be dropping pretty dang fast.
 
The 1900'll take it...if only we had guns. And afterburners. And vectored thrust.
 
Skypilotcfii said:
Worthless in a Dog Fight. What do you think Engine TBO is?
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I'd be F-22 drivers would love to take that on. "100 miles out and closing...he's hovering...ok, a non-moving target in a dogfight, I'll take that." Boom.
 
Teller1900 said:
I'd be F-22 drivers would love to take that on. "100 miles out and closing...he's hovering...ok, a non-moving target in a dogfight, I'll take that." Boom.
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Till you're coming onto his six at speed, he pulls a Cobra and all of a sudden you have a tone in your ear.... It's what a plane can do at low energy that often makes the difference in a dog fight. In the real world, I bet the 22 & 18 drivers see that and they think really hard about how to avoid a situation that will allow them to be drawn down to those levels of energy. BTW, do you really think that a plane with the raw power to be able to pull that off at low energy will handle worse at high energy? Do you think because it performs slow at an airshow, that it will perform slow in combat? If I was driving a 22, 18, 16 or 15, I'd be studying that plane really hard and figuring out my advantages and how to use them to prevent that planefrom getting into his advantage envelope, because from what I saw, that plane has a LARGE advantage envelope.
 
Henning said:
Till you're coming onto his six at speed, he pulls a Cobra and all of a sudden you have a tone in your ear.... It's what a plane can do at low energy that often makes the difference in a dog fight. In the real world, I bet the 22 & 18 drivers see that and they think really hard about how to avoid a situation that will allow them to be drawn down to those levels of energy. BTW, do you really think that a plane with the raw power to be able to pull that off at low energy will handle worse at high energy? Do you think because it performs slow at an airshow, that it will perform slow in combat? If I was driving a 22, 18, 16 or 15, I'd be studying that plane really hard and figuring out my advantages and how to use them to prevent that planefrom getting into his advantage envelope, because from what I saw, that plane has a LARGE advantage envelope.
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ECM on, radar off. and wait until you see him on the screen and fire at the emmitter. He never sees it comming.
 
NC19143 said:
ECM on, radar off. and wait until you see him on the screen and fire at the emmitter. He never sees it comming.
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Exactly, avoid the dogfight, because he has a lot of ability in a furrball. Saying that plane is useless in a dogfight shows a lack of understanding of what is important in one.
 
Henning said:
Till you're coming onto his six at speed, he pulls a Cobra and all of a sudden you have a tone in your ear.... It's what a plane can do at low energy that often makes the difference in a dog fight. In the real world, I bet the 22 & 18 drivers see that and they think really hard about how to avoid a situation that will allow them to be drawn down to those levels of energy. BTW, do you really think that a plane with the raw power to be able to pull that off at low energy will handle worse at high energy? Do you think because it performs slow at an airshow, that it will perform slow in combat? If I was driving a 22, 18, 16 or 15, I'd be studying that plane really hard and figuring out my advantages and how to use them to prevent that planefrom getting into his advantage envelope, because from what I saw, that plane has a LARGE advantage envelope.
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I meant to say "non-moving target instead of a dogfight." I have no doubt if you get into it with him you're going to have some work to do, but with the weapons systems in the 22, the point is to avoid even getting to the merge let alone into a hairball with him. Nor do I doubt the power that those engines have to give him all that energy right back, on demand. But again, long range missile shot and you don't have to worry about managing energy. I didn't say it was worthless in a dogfight at all, I just said that modern fighters probably aren't going to get close enough for him to use maneuvers like that, at least not if things go as planned for said fighters.
 
Teller1900 said:
I meant to say "non-moving target instead of a dogfight." I have no doubt if you get into it with him you're going to have some work to do, but with the weapons systems in the 22, the point is to avoid even getting to the merge let alone into a hairball with him. Nor do I doubt the power that those engines have to give him all that energy right back, on demand. But again, long range missile shot and you don't have to worry about managing energy. I didn't say it was worthless in a dogfight at all, I just said that modern fighters probably aren't going to get close enough for him to use maneuvers like that, at least not if things go as planned for said fighters.
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That right there sounds an awful lot like what the "experts" concluded for why guns shouldn't be mounted on F-4 Phantoms
 
Henning said:
Exactly, avoid the dogfight, because he has a lot of ability in a furrball. Saying that plane is useless in a dogfight shows a lack of understanding of what is important in one.
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Over the ready room door of VF 151 there was a sign..

"The quicker you kill the enemy, the less time he has to kill you."
 
Extreme maneuverability can erase a lot of other shortcomings. Consider the Harrier....
 
Teller1900 said:
I meant to say "non-moving target instead of a dogfight." I have no doubt if you get into it with him you're going to have some work to do, but with the weapons systems in the 22, the point is to avoid even getting to the merge let alone into a hairball with him. Nor do I doubt the power that those engines have to give him all that energy right back, on demand. But again, long range missile shot and you don't have to worry about managing energy. I didn't say it was worthless in a dogfight at all, I just said that modern fighters probably aren't going to get close enough for him to use maneuvers like that, at least not if things go as planned for said fighters.
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They made the same mistake in thinking with the F-4 Phantom, didn't exactly work out very well. Amazing how history repeats itself...
 
If you've seen a "max performance" demo by the F-22 this doesn't seem to impressive. The Raptor is just as, if not more, maneuverable.
 
Oh n0z!!! He touched down before the displaced threshold!
 
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