Avoiding deference on my first class 3 medical

Freddy

Filing Flight Plan
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loccalsonly
Hey everyone!

I'm a 24 year old male who has logged 6.5 hours of flight time so far, and am aiming to get my class three medical soon. I'm fortunate to have gotten to know a couple captains in the majors, who have been coaching me through the medical exam. My goal is to make sure when I apply I do not get declined or deferred. Next week I have a phone consultation scheduled with a medical examiner, where I will ask some questions about this topic before I actually go in and submit my medical form, but I wanted to hear from all the great people here about any similar experiences you all have had.

I have a misdemeanor record. I was involved in two legal issues, and both resulted in two misdemeanor convictions, for a grand total of four misdemeanors in my life. None of them were traffic related, and I have a squeaky clean driving record, so I am able to check "No" on question 18v of the medical form, but I will be checking "Yes" on question 18w. 18w asks "History of nontraffic conviction(s)(misdemeanors or felonies)".

All the charges I recieved were when I was 18 years old. I made some bad decisions in my youth and since my last conviction I have been a productive and responsible member of society, I do not break the law. The charges are the following

1. Possession of paraphernalia with intent to use (a marijuana pipe)
2. Probation violation

3.Unlawful entry
4. Petit theft

I am well aware that this will be a huge hurdle for me in gaining my medical, but do you guys think that it's possible with this record to receive my medical without deference if everything else on it is perfect?
 
with 4 infractions, a deferral is likely. But you will eventually prevail based on what you have disclosed.
 
with 4 infractions, a deferral is likely. But you will eventually prevail based on what you have disclosed.

You are exactly the person I was hoping would reply to this thread. I've been a bit obsessive about this and pour over these forums. Will they be lumped together into two events, as there were only two issues (each leading to two charges), or will it be looked at as four distinct criminal charges. It is encouraging hearing that medical clearance is possible with this record, so thank you!

Also, will it be up to the medical examiner whether to defer or not? Or will they likely be obligated to.
 
You are exactly the person I was hoping would reply to this thread.
Then it might be worth your time and expense to travel to Dr. Lou in Pensacola and have him be your AME of record. For medical certifications that can be more thorny than others, there is big value in having the right person manage your case.
 
You’re a thief?

Regardless of the medical


Not many good paying folks will hire one of your type
 
Then it might be worth your time and expense to travel to Dr. Lou in Pensacola and have him be your AME of record. For medical certifications that can be more thorny than others, there is big value in having the right person manage your case.


I will certainly have to consider this. I'm glad to say that my local AME is close friends with my close friends within the aviation community. So if I do have a shot I expect they will suggest approving me if it gets deferred. (From what I've read in the AME's guide that is something that they can do, but I obviously could be mistaken.)


You’re a thief?

Regardless of the medical


Not many good paying folks will hire one of your type



Thank you for your opinion, although I didn't ask about employers looking at my record I asked about clearing my medical. There are many commercial pilots, even one in the majors that I know personally, who have records similar too or worse than mine. It may be much more difficult for me to find employment, but I'm perfectly fine with that. And as for your question "You're a thief?", my answer is no. I am not a thief.
 
I had to answer yes to 18w. It was for stealing some street cones when i was 17 (33yrs ago). Perfectly clean record after that and ever since. The AME signed my 3rd class right in the office. Then gave me this look and a smile and said something like "i wouldnt steal any more street cones :)"

I suspect yours will not be quite as easy for 2 reasons.

First, there isnt a lot of time between your violations and now...which would seem to make my second concern a bit more emphasized.

The second concern being that the 4 violations just seem to read along the lines of a drug user whos been caught for things peripheral to a drug violation but not an actual drug violation.

I know youll want to argue those concerns or perhaps be truthful regarding them. In any case, i wouldnt comment publicly on any more of the details regarding that time in your life. Othdrs have mentioned special AMEs...please take those suggestions seriously.

Good luck. No one is trying to kill your dream..just your past coming back to haunt you for a bit.
 
I will certainly have to consider this. I'm glad to say that my local AME is close friends with my close friends within the aviation community. So if I do have a shot I expect they will suggest approving me if it gets deferred. (From what I've read in the AME's guide that is something that they can do, but I obviously could be mistaken.)






Thank you for your opinion, although I didn't ask about employers looking at my record I asked about clearing my medical. There are many commercial pilots, even one in the majors that I know personally, who have records similar too or worse than mine. It may be much more difficult for me to find employment, but I'm perfectly fine with that. And as for your question "You're a thief?", my answer is no. I am not a thief.
trouble with 4 events:
Either personality disorder multiple acts, or marijuana abuse / dependency, are the choices.

Neither is issusble in the office ..
 
I had to answer yes to 18w. It was for stealing some street cones when i was 17 (33yrs ago). Perfectly clean record after that and ever since. The AME signed my 3rd class right in the office. Then gave me this look and a smile and said something like "i wouldnt steal any more street cones :)"

I suspect yours will not be quite as easy for 2 reasons.

First, there isnt a lot of time between your violations and now...which would seem to make my second concern a bit more emphasized.

The second concern being that the 4 violations just seem to read along the lines of a drug user whos been caught for things peripheral to a drug violation but not an actual drug violation.

I know youll want to argue those concerns or perhaps be truthful regarding them. In any case, i wouldnt comment publicly on any more of the details regarding that time in your life. Othdrs have mentioned special AMEs...please take those suggestions seriously.

Good luck. No one is trying to kill your dream..just your past coming back to haunt you for a bit.


Thanks for the reply! My expectations are realistic about this (I think), and I am at peace with my history. If it bars me from flight that's something I'm OK with, because I'm comfortable living with the consequences of my actions. I just want to make sure I try my hardest, so that even if I do get denied, I will know that I put my best foot forward. I will take the advice to seek out a special AME very seriously. Cheers!
 
trouble with 4 events:
Either personality disorder multiple acts, or marijuana abuse / dependency, are the choices.

Neither is issusble in the office ..


Thank you. Are you stating that I will absolutely either be labeled as having a personality disorder or a drug dependency issue? Or are you saying that it will have to be sent to the FAA to decide if I have one of those problems?
 
trouble with 4 events:
Either personality disorder multiple acts, or marijuana abuse / dependency, are the choices.

Neither is issusble in the office ..


I would also like to state that these were two "events" that each led to two charges being filed, if that makes any difference at how an AME or the FAA would view them.
 
I wish i understood this stuff better. Just because the AME is not allowed to issue the medical in the office doesnt mean youll never be a pilot. It does mean though that you will most likely have to do something - per their orders and your $$$$ to satisfy them. Perhaps the worst case is going through some programs recommended by them and paid for by you to prove the areas Dr. Chien are not factors. From what i understand, those things also can take time.
 
You are exactly the person I was hoping would reply to this thread. I've been a bit obsessive about this and pour over these forums. Will they be lumped together into two events, as there were only two issues (each leading to two charges), or will it be looked at as four distinct criminal charges. It is encouraging hearing that medical clearance is possible with this record, so thank you!

Also, will it be up to the medical examiner whether to defer or not? Or will they likely be obligated to.

I offer simple exonerating explanations and submit deferred. Then, we send complete answers base on FAA query. A HIMS assignment by the FAA is possible!
 
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I’m confused. You said two events with two charges each. But one of the charges on the first event is violation of probation.

So wasn’t there a prior event for which you were on probation?
 
I’m confused. You said two events with two charges each. But one of the charges on the first event is violation of probation.

So wasn’t there a prior event for which you were on probation?

He is considering the probation itself an "event". That's the way I read it anyway.
 
Thank you. Are you stating that I will absolutely either be labeled as having a personality disorder or a drug dependency issue? Or are you saying that it will have to be sent to the FAA to decide if I have one of those problems?
I would suggest you follow up with Dr Bruce, offline.
 
I'd not be surprised if you get the stock PPP request back; a battery of psychological tests as well as a report from a board certified (and these says like HIMS) psychiatrist.
 
OP: The thing you did right is to schedule the phone consult first before applying. But not knowing what that AME will do, the good folks here advise you to also contact Dr. Bruce or Dr. Lou. Based on what they have posted it is clear your goal of preventing deferral will not be met. So your goal now should be to avoid denial. (That would lock you out of Sport Pilot.) To do that you need to be as certain as you can that you will eventually be issued before even applying.

with 4 infractions, a deferral is likely. But you will eventually prevail based on what you have disclosed.

trouble with 4 events:
Either personality disorder multiple acts, or marijuana abuse / dependency, are the choices.

Neither is issusble in the office ..

I offer simple exonerating explanations and submit deferred. Then, we send complete answers base on FAA query.

Drs. Lou and Chien may have slightly different approaches but basically the plan is the same. If you want to absolutely avoid denial, you may want to get the psychiatric testing done prior to applying, on the chance it uncovers either personality disorder or substance abuse, in which case you never apply, and avoid denial. But that testing is expensive - $3000- $5000 are the latest numbers I've seen. The risk of doing it that way is maybe the FAA won't require all that testing, maybe they'll require something less and you will have spent time and money for nothing.

This is serious enough for a "second opinion" in addition to your phone consult with your AME and we know both Dr. Lou and Chien are let's say higher quality than some AMEs we hear about on this board... not to dis yours quite yet.

Thank you. Are you stating that I will absolutely either be labeled as having a personality disorder or a drug dependency issue? Or are you saying that it will have to be sent to the FAA to decide if I have one of those problems?

No you will not absolutely be labeled as having either of these but there is a high likelihood you will be presumed to have either or both of these and the FAA essentially wants proof that you don't. Proving no personality disorder is done with psychological testing and if there is any tolerance or addiction, we're looking at AA meetings, multiple pee tests, and basically a whole rehab scenario.

That is worst case but let's not get ahead of ourselves. The first step is your phone consult with one or more qualified AMEs, see what they say. There's the outside chance that Dr. Lou's "exonerating" submission may result in a lesser scenario, or if Dr. Bruce sees your complete history, the same.

I would suggest you follow up with Dr Bruce, offline.

Agree! No need to provide any more detail here. There is a big difference between being charged with paraphernalia because it was in a friend's car and state law says everyone in the car must be charged, and being charged because it was in your pocket and you smoke every day and happened not to have any actual drug on you at the moment. Say no more here!!! But share these details with the AME honestly.

And for Pete's sake if you still indulge in some weed here and there, stop right now and wait a few years until you stabilize into a clean life before applying. I am not assuming you do, just saying.

I'd not be surprised if you get the stock PPP request back; a battery of psychological tests as well as a report from a board certified (and these says like HIMS) psychiatrist.

This is the $3-$5 K to which I refer. If this is too onerous to face right now and you absolutely do not want a denial, consider putting more time between yourself and those events.

Good luck!
 
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