Avionics Upgrade

Hcsims

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Hcsims
I have a AA5B "Tiger", that has an old klx135a, Narco 122, and very old comm panel.
I want to upgrade to a GTN 650, GI 106A, and possibly a Garmin 340. The Avionics shop says it will cost $17700 for all three installed.

Are there any opinions on this combination or is there a better idea. I live in Ft Worth and the shop is at Cleburne Airport.
 
Speaking as one who pulled the old flat pack Narcos out of a 1979 Tiger and replaced them with a Garmin stack (GNS530W, SL40, PS 8000, GTX330, but kept the Nav 114 as #2 VOR), I spent a good bit more than what you mentioned and eight years later have no regrets about the decision. And that price sounds right for that package, installed.
 
Speaking as one who pulled the old flat pack Narcos out of a 1979 Tiger and replaced them with a Garmin stack (GNS530W, SL40, PS 8000, GTX330, but kept the Nav 114 as #2 VOR), I spent a good bit more than what you mentioned and eight years later have no regrets about the decision. And that price sounds right for that package, installed.


I'd hunt for a good deal on a GNS430W, Sandel 3308 (and King or better yet Sandel remote gyro set), the PS 8000 seems like the folks top pic, I have the Garmin 340 and I'm very happy with it, just have a 3.5mm jack wired into comm 3 for iPods and whatever.

I'd recommend a TRRS jack, gives you both input for music and output, for handheld radios, go pros, cells etc.

KM-161-5435-2.jpg

http://www.kvconnection.com/product-p/km-161-5435.htm

Spending that money on avionics without a HSI is silly.

Sandel%203308%20EHSI.jpg


I take it you already have a autopilot.
 
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The shop has a "like new " Garmin 340 he' ll sell for $900. The PS 8000 was mentioned as well but would cost more. I have an S Tec 30 autopilot and my future upgrade would be to an Aspen 1000 pro.
 
I have a 530,430 gps with an aspen ,with Garmin 327, which I want to upgrade to the 330es for ADSB. Prices are down now that the 650 is out.
 
Few months ago I spent $21K on a Garmin 340, GTN 650, KX155 (Had already), Navworx ADSB600 and rewiring of all Audio connections.
 
The Aspen EFD1000 Pro PFD would be far more cost effective for the HSI in the future and could be added after I catch my breath from the Garmin piece of the upgrade.
For now just looking to get upgraded to modern avionics and get to enjoy the reliability and expandability:D
 
With today's electronic dependability why would a owner need more than one com?
99% chance a major electrical failure will take the whole stack anyway. So why not a single com/gps, and a back up hand held.
 
With today's electronic dependability why would a owner need more than one com?
99% chance a major electrical failure will take the whole stack anyway. So why not a single com/gps, and a back up hand held.


Log a few hundred IFR and let me know, single com is almost a no go.
 
With today's electronic dependability why would a owner need more than one com?

99% chance a major electrical failure will take the whole stack anyway. So why not a single com/gps, and a back up hand held.


Because you need to be able monitor a 2nd radio channel flying IFR to pick up ATIS, HIWAS, or listen for traffic at an airport without a tower to pick up runway in use or if any planes in the pattern on a IFR approach, and just monitoring guard while switching to flightwatch, just to name a few uses
 
Because you need to be able monitor a 2nd radio channel flying IFR to pick up ATIS, HIWAS, or listen for traffic at an airport without a tower to pick up runway in use or if any planes in the pattern on a IFR approach, and just monitoring guard while switching to flightwatch, just to name a few uses

One can do all that with one ICOM A210.
 
With today's electronic dependability why would a owner need more than one com?
99% chance a major electrical failure will take the whole stack anyway. So why not a single com/gps, and a back up hand held.
radio is one thing, antenna, antenna cable, mic cable, etc are something else. I've had 3 all or partial lost com situations i can recall and all 3 were due to a cable or wiring issue outside the radio rack
 
Why does anyone need 17 AMUs worth of avionics to fly around in the Sunshine State?
 
Why does anyone need 17 AMUs worth of avionics to fly around in the Sunshine State?


Why does anyone need an airplane when you can drive?

Aviation is not about what you need, it's about what you want
 
With today's electronic dependability why would a owner need more than one com?
Lots of reasons if you operate IFR. Many times you want to be off the primary freq but still able to monitor Guard. Yes, some of the new radios let you do that with a single radio, but you still have to do some dialing to do that, and if you do have a problem with one radio, it's nice to be able to still fly while the bad radio is in the shop.
 
Log a few hundred IFR and let me know, single com is almost a no go.

Even VFR only, I find the 2nd COM invaluable. I use it for weather, monitoring 121.5, 122.75 when a bunch of us are going to lunch (often in the mountains in the summer), etc.
 
BTW, That ICOM A210 is not real expensive. $1079 and a $100 rebate.

Monitors second frequency.
mounts in King trays of the same form factor.
8.33 spacing (doubt they'll ever need that in the US)
NOAA weather channels

detail.jpg
 
Yes it can monitor a second frequency, which is great. It's a wonderful feature and can give the radio a strong place as a single com unit. As long as you understand what it is NOT.

It is NOT able to transmit on main and listen on standby at the same time. Transmitting will mute the standby monitor. It is NOT redundant. If it blows up, you now have no com. A complete second comm gives you both of the above. There are circumstances where you may prefer to have that.
 
BTW, That ICOM A210 is not real expensive. $1079 and a $100 rebate.

Monitors second frequency.
mounts in King trays of the same form factor.
8.33 spacing (doubt they'll ever need that in the US)
NOAA weather channels

detail.jpg

That's a slick little radio, I like the NOAA feature too.
 
As Ron mentioned, the Apollo/UPSAT/Garmin SL-series slimline Nav/Comms are excellent radios that take up minimal panel space. I have the SL30 Nav/Comm/ILS and have been very happy with it. I don't think they make these new any longer but used ones are around.
 
I spoke to a shop and like the price so is there a difference in quality of work from one place to another? I figured I would ask for three or four references to find out how their installs went.
 
If I go with the GTN 650, might I be better off losing the verticle compass and putting in a used King KI 525A HSI($1000-$2200) instead of the Garmin GI 106A? Seems that for the same price I get instant greater value.
 
I spoke to a shop and like the price so is there a difference in quality of work from one place to another?

Yes. Some shops take the entire job seriously and are sure to produce a legally airworthy aircraft. Other shops...well...maybe not so much. I used to take the low bidder for work...now I'm much more concerned with regulatory compliance along with technical job execution. All these shops operate in a difficult regulatory environment. The airworthiness of your airplane depends on them doing the entire job correctly.
 
I have a AA5B "Tiger", that has an old klx135a, Narco 122, and very old comm panel.
I want to upgrade to a GTN 650, GI 106A, and possibly a Garmin 340. The Avionics shop says it will cost $17700 for all three installed.

Are there any opinions on this combination or is there a better idea. I live in Ft Worth and the shop is at Cleburne Airport.

If you,re going to need ADSB out where you fly add a garmin 330es transponder for about $4k and you,ll be all set. 650 hooks to 330 for adsb out, also gives tis traffic on the gps
 
If I go with the GTN 650, might I be better off losing the verticle compass and putting in a used King KI 525A HSI($1000-$2200) instead of the Garmin GI 106A? Seems that for the same price I get instant greater value.

find out what repairs will cost you if the old HSI breaks, you may change your mind
 
I spoke to a shop and like the price so is there a difference in quality of work from one place to another? I figured I would ask for three or four references to find out how their installs went.


I know three or four guys around here who have used this Tx shop for heavy avionics work and they swear by them.

I think they're an approved Garmin/Aspen shop...

http://www.pippen-york.com/
 
I've spoken with an Aspen Avionis rep and he strongly recommended the 1000 pro coupled to a GNS 430W. He said it would be cheaper and would do everything the 650 would do. So my question is will Garmin continue to support the 430 and 530 another 10 years? Apparently there are a couple of hundred thousand in the GA market today.
 
I've spoken with an Aspen Avionis rep and he strongly recommended the 1000 pro coupled to a GNS 430W. He said it would be cheaper and would do everything the 650 would do. So my question is will Garmin continue to support the 430 and 530 another 10 years? Apparently there are a couple of hundred thousand in the GA market today.


5 years? Yes

10 years? Maybe

Beyond? No
 
So the question becomes will I get enough utility from the 430 to justify installing then possibly another upgrade.
 
So the question becomes will I get enough utility from the 430 to justify installing then possibly another upgrade.


You might look at Avidyne's IFD 440.

It isn't available yet, but I'll bet it's only a matter of the next Oshkosh if not sooner.

The 430 is solid, but it's a maze of button pushes and lingo I still haven't mastered after years. :redface:
 
I just spoke with the Avidyne rep regarding the IFD 540/440. Sounds like a great unit. Much more efficient than GNT 650/750. He said it would be out in April or May. No price given. They give a big discount if one has a GNT to trade in and their unit just plugs right in using the Garmin tray and connections.:yesnod:
 
I just spoke with the Avidyne rep regarding the IFD 540/440. Sounds like a great unit. Much more efficient than GNT 650/750. He said it would be out in April or May. No price given. They give a big discount if one has a GNT to trade in and their unit just plugs right in using the Garmin tray and connections.:yesnod:


My understanding is the IFD 440 is supposed to be a true plug and play replacement for the GNS 430. Slide out the 430, slide in the 440 and go.

Garmin really screwed the pooch with their GTN units not fitting the trays or I'd probably have one.

I fully expect to return from OSH this year with a new IFD440 in my dash. :yes:
 
I just spoke with the Avidyne rep regarding the IFD 540/440. Sounds like a great unit. Much more efficient than GNT 650/750. He said it would be out in April or May. No price given. They give a big discount if one has a GNT to trade in and their unit just plugs right in using the Garmin tray and connections.:yesnod:


First it's GTN for those with dyslexia , 2nd it's a salesman, I'd be shocked if he said anything else, 3rd I wouldn't bet the farm on those dates
 
I'd hunt for a good deal on a GNS430W, Sandel 3308 (and King or better yet Sandel remote gyro set), the PS 8000 seems like the folks top pic, I have the Garmin 340 and I'm very happy with it, just have a 3.5mm jack wired into comm 3 for iPods and whatever.

I'd recommend a TRRS jack, gives you both input for music and output, for handheld radios, go pros, cells etc.

KM-161-5435-2.jpg

http://www.kvconnection.com/product-p/km-161-5435.htm

Spending that money on avionics without a HSI is silly.

Sandel%203308%20EHSI.jpg


I take it you already have a autopilot.

By the time you buy a gyro and a Sandel you buy an Aspen.

If you get any of the Garmin WAAS boxes, get the Blue Tooth link for them so you can control them from an iPad.

I would be hard pressed to own another plane without a glass SVT deck, it would have to be something with a Day VFR only mission, and that just isn't me. Even though I rarely fly IFR, I know my planes have to be IFR, and Class G VFR minimums capable, because I run into it getting places I need to be. Even if all I need is the first or last 15 minutes to be IFR, it's hard for me to pass it up, especially since when I need it most is likely the when I am at my least proficient, and that is when SVT pays for itself.

I was fortunate enough to have made friends on the Red Board with a gentleman who has not spared a dime on his Comanche and has constantly upgraded his panel, (his avionics shop gives him a decent deal, basically they trade it back for what he he paid on the upgrade, less the install cost the of course; he had an Aspen for a few weeks.:lol:) from a King HSI to a Sandel 3308 to a Sandel 3500, to an Aspen, to a G-600 driven with a 530/430 stack now has an all glad 2xG-600 750/650 with all the integration, a stand alone small SVT unit as backup and a nice digital engine primary package. The only round left is the flap indicator.

All through this process he has always kept me in IPCs in his plane, and it ruined me. When I saw step by step how much capability and information each improvement provided, especially when the crap starts getting thrown at you, it was really impressive. I've always been fine after 10 minutes or so even after a decade of not flying IFR as for controlling the plane, however the mental gymnastics of situational awareness in IMC isn't as fast, and in fact it is impossible to maintain SVT levels of situational awareness while flying a six pack in IMC, there just is enough time unless you know the airspace and terrain like the back of your hand. I can jump in Av's plane and be perfectly comfortable punching direct into the soup. So, when I got the 310, the first flight dropped it off at the avionics shop for a G-500 an 430W (no 650/750 yet or I would have bought a 750, the screen real estate is worth every dime), that I got to fly into Stead for the air races was a bonus.:yesnod:
 
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