Avidyne going under?
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wabower
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Wayne
Spike, will aircraft insurance carriers likely respond in the same manner as when the Aspen FBO required plane owners to execute damage waivers when planes were moved by company tugs?
Wayne, I'd love to answer cogently and succinctly, but I'd have to answer sphincterally- as in, "I don't have clue, so I'd have to pull it out of my azz."
What *did* the carriers do then? Say, "no coverage for damage at Aspen"?
wabower
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Sorry, didn't mean to be obscure and assumed you would know the answer like you usually do.
IIRC, the issue arose because of the tight ramp configuration at ASE. In icy conditions the tugs simply couldn't couldn't precisely control the big airplanes when repositioning them. Signature told the owners they would either be required to sign the waiver or pay almost triple-rate ramp fees. When owners acceded to the waiver demands their insurers got wind of the swindle and basically said "not so fast there, Gonzales, by doing so you're infringing on our economic rights as set forth in the policy, and agreed to by you. If you agree to Signature's waiver, we will in turn cancel all of your coverage and reissue at a different premium rate based on the new terms that have been imposed."
Once that card was played and all the carriers basically "me-too'd" their stance with respect to the issue, the owners were able to raise enough stink to beat back the proposed surcharges.
IIRC, the issue arose because of the tight ramp configuration at ASE. In icy conditions the tugs simply couldn't couldn't precisely control the big airplanes when repositioning them. Signature told the owners they would either be required to sign the waiver or pay almost triple-rate ramp fees. When owners acceded to the waiver demands their insurers got wind of the swindle and basically said "not so fast there, Gonzales, by doing so you're infringing on our economic rights as set forth in the policy, and agreed to by you. If you agree to Signature's waiver, we will in turn cancel all of your coverage and reissue at a different premium rate based on the new terms that have been imposed."
Once that card was played and all the carriers basically "me-too'd" their stance with respect to the issue, the owners were able to raise enough stink to beat back the proposed surcharges.
Art VanDelay
Pattern Altitude
"Resistance is futile ! You will be assimilated. We are Garmin !"
wsuffa
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IF they can impose that in a service contract, they can impose the same in an initial purchase contract. Or in the repair contract for those that don't take the "deal". Other than any potential competitive forces, or a court finding that the provisions are null and void. This sounds like something that Parker Hannefin has tried to do. If Avidyne gets away with it, others WILL follow.
Wayne, what happened at ASE is much less likely to happen here as there's less money at stake, and less influential folks involved. There was (a suboptimal) solution at ASE: drop the passengers and ferry the plane elsewhere. Can't exactly do that with embedded avionics.
Doubt that Avidyne will go under, but it certainly makes other options much more palatable.... until those folks try to impose similar language.
Wayne, what happened at ASE is much less likely to happen here as there's less money at stake, and less influential folks involved. There was (a suboptimal) solution at ASE: drop the passengers and ferry the plane elsewhere. Can't exactly do that with embedded avionics.
Doubt that Avidyne will go under, but it certainly makes other options much more palatable.... until those folks try to impose similar language.
Fearless Tower
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They may not go under, but they are certainly aren't going to help their business. Avidyne support is pretty pi$$ poor as it is. The article says they charge a $5900 fee to fix anything that is wrong with their gear....but that is only if they actually will support their gear. Their typical business plan on many of their MFD line is to roll out a new model every so often and immediately cease all support for the previous version(s). If you have a problem they'll tell you that they won't support the product, but will be happy to sell you the new model.
The only reason I haven't already made plans to rip out the MFD in the Baron and install a Garmin is that so far the Garmin doesn't support my radar.
Ted
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Of course, Garmin isn't known for stellar prices or service, either. Avidyne products are cheaper and I find a bit shinier.
Plus, it seems that the MFDs aren't that expensive, but the interfaces to radar units are extremely expensive. I'm not sure why.
Fearless Tower
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True...it seems to be a not uncommon theme in ther avionics world.
They are decent products, I just don't like the idea of having buy a whole new model every time I want to 'upgrade'....but the more frustrating part is how all of the other products work together....in my case, I bought a plane with an older Avidyne MFD and onboard radar. Works fine right now, but if I ever want to upgrade the MFD....I have to go Avidyne or I will need to buy a whole new radar as well.
Ted
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What's the setup, an RDR-160 with a FlightMax?
You can also buy up used FlightMaxs if you have a problem, but I agree the obsolence model leaves something to be desired.
Fearless Tower
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That is exactly the setup. Do you know of any other options?
Ted
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I do not. Lance (gismo) knows a lot more about those things than I do, so he might have some ideas. The 310 used to have that setup, which is the only reason I guessed. That's a good setup, too, so I'd stick with it as long as you can. The previous owner liked the setup enough that he pulled it and threw it in his T310R (purchased without radar), which is why we then went ahead and added the KWX56. I'd like to have an MFD instead of the old CRT radar screen to complete the panel, but that is so low on the priority list I don't think it will ever happen. Plus as I said in John's avionics thread, next time I need avionics work I'm buying a new plane.
Piloto
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A few days ago, Avidyne offered me its new “AeroPlan” extended warranty for my equipment: pay $2000 per year and any repairs are free. If that sounds like a lot of money, keep in mind that without a warranty Avidyne charges a flat rate of $5900 to fix anything that might go on the fritz. (Ouch!)
The thinking behind this is: Avidyne knows that they got you if the PFD dies you have no other options but to send it to them for repair. The purpose of this is to make extra money on equipment they already sold, since it appear they are not selling too many of the new PFD displays. The liability issue is due to a cost reduction on their liability insurance.
For how long you are going to pay $2000/year. Does the product breakes more often than every three years. What kind of reliability is this? I am very happy with my vacuum gyros that just cost me $300ea. to overhaul after 25 years of use.
Thanks for the info. It help me on making the decision of keeping my old trusty gyros.
José
The thinking behind this is: Avidyne knows that they got you if the PFD dies you have no other options but to send it to them for repair. The purpose of this is to make extra money on equipment they already sold, since it appear they are not selling too many of the new PFD displays. The liability issue is due to a cost reduction on their liability insurance.
For how long you are going to pay $2000/year. Does the product breakes more often than every three years. What kind of reliability is this? I am very happy with my vacuum gyros that just cost me $300ea. to overhaul after 25 years of use.
Thanks for the info. It help me on making the decision of keeping my old trusty gyros.
José