Aviation grade Ethanol

tonycondon

tonycondon

Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
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Tony
Has anyone checked this out?

www.age85.org

pretty interesting/cool. for those of you that burn gas, that is.
 
Team Ethanol's E-Squadron was at Airventure this year...

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/12_33b/leadnews/ethanol_192980-1.html

AirVenture2006_Gallery02_05.jpg
 
I think Texas Skyways makes some very cheap Ethanol STC's too. Like $100 or less cheap, IIRC. For aviation, that's CHEAP!
 
get the club to put it on the 182 kent! can run 100LL or E85. E85 is about half price of 100LL, no?
 
tonycondon said:
get the club to put it on the 182 kent! can run 100LL or E85. E85 is about half price of 100LL, no?
Click to expand...

What I didn't see on the E85 website is... where can you buy it?! If it's not available at an airport, what good will it do? (I like the idea, though!)
 
MOGAS isnt available at our airport, but we still run it in the supercub. about 5 old beer kegs painted red make excellent storage containers. a hand pump with a couple hoses transfers.
 
tonycondon said:
get the club to put it on the 182 kent! can run 100LL or E85. E85 is about half price of 100LL, no?
Click to expand...

We'll see. We may do the Texas Skyways 260hp upgrade when our old IO-470 finally kicks the bucket, and that would be a great time to get the STC too. Otherwise, well, $2000 worth of flying for a $100 STC... :no:

That old engine is doing great, too. 300+ over TBO, oil analyses looking great, and the lowest compression is 70/80. Hope that holds. :fcross:

tonycondon said:
MOGAS isnt available at our airport, but we still run it in the supercub. about 5 old beer kegs painted red make excellent storage containers. a hand pump with a couple hoses transfers.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, we're in a community hangar so that sort of thing really wouldn't work for us. :no: I've always thought that if I got a plane that would run on #2 Diesel that I'd get a pickup with one of those storage tank/transfer pump setups in the bed so I could fuel it up cheap at the home drome.
 
thats what my uncle does with his cherokee 140 with cargas STC. he has a tank in his pickup that he uses to fill the airplane. it also comes in handy when you or others around you run out of gas. This of course is when he has his airplane at the airport and not at his private runway (lucky!)
 
Troy Whistman said:
What I didn't see on the E85 website is... where can you buy it?! If it's not available at an airport, what good will it do? (I like the idea, though!)
Click to expand...

It's not convenient to you but it seems nearly all the gas stations here in Nebraska carry the stuff. It was the cheapest gas I could buy until this week (now the 87 octane is). Must be something to do with all the corn they grow out here.

<edit> I should look before I stick my foot in my mouth. This is not be the same 15% EtOH I've been putting in my car all fall- I subtracted the 15% to get 85% hydrocarbons.</edit>
 
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Not so sure about the whole E85 movement. I had a friend that burned it for awhile in his E85 vehicle. His mileage went down significantly and actually cost more per mile to drive even though the E85 is cheaper.
 
What I've read, expect a 30% drop in mileage/range with ethanol.

jesse said:
Not so sure about the whole E85 movement. I had a friend that burned it for awhile in his E85 vehicle. His mileage went down significantly and actually cost more per mile to drive even though the E85 is cheaper.
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That be right, Ethanol only has about 60% of the energy content of gasoline/100LL.

That also means your 4hr to reserves airplane just became a 2hr to reserves airplane.

Steve said:
What I've read, expect a 30% drop in mileage/range with ethanol.
Click to expand...
 
mgkdrgn said:
That be right, Ethanol only has about 60% of the energy content of gasoline/100LL.

That also means your 4hr to reserves airplane just became a 2hr to reserves airplane.
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Let's see I've got to use 30% - 40% more at a higher cost per gallon. That makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes:
 
Anthony said:
Let's see I've got to use 30% - 40% more at a higher cost per gallon. That makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes:
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If it has the same problems autogas ethanol has, just wait until you open up the carburetors. White crud stuck on everything on the lower velocity sections of the carburetors. (like the downsteam side of the throttle plates, etc)
Crud everywhere, lower fuel mileage, higher cost. Something is just not right there.

Cleaner burning, maybe, but you have to use more of it over the same time and/or distance. Where's the break even point?
 
The "break even point" will be that there will be a WHOLE lot less flying going on. No one has even mentioned yet what will need to be done to the existing fleet of 100LL burners to get them to run on E85.

Unless there is a direct replacment for 100LL developed, I see 75+% of the existing GA single engine piston fleet (ie, the planes most of us fly) turning into so much scrap metal overnight.


fgcason said:
If it has the same problems autogas ethanol has, just wait until you open up the carburetors. White crud stuck on everything on the lower velocity sections of the carburetors. (like the downsteam side of the throttle plates, etc)
Crud everywhere, lower fuel mileage, higher cost. Something is just not right there.

Cleaner burning, maybe, but you have to use more of it over the same time and/or distance. Where's the break even point?
Click to expand...
 
Ethanol is not a viable fuel for motor vehicles in the US, unless a new and dramatically more efficient process for conversion of corn is developed. The ethanol being burned as a motor fuel today in the US is virtually all produced from corn, and there is nearly as much energy consumed in the production process as there is energy produced.

Ethanol, in the US, is nothing but a federal government welfare program, a redistribution of wealth.

As an aviation fuel, ethanol's reduced energy density essentially consigns it to being a sport aviation fuel, because by the time you've loaded enough E in a plane to go anywhere of consequence, you've used up all your lifting capacity with fuel.

Assuming a more efficient production process can be developed (in Brazil, they start with sugar cane, which is a viable process), ethanol might best be used to power ground-based vehicles, thus easing the demand on petroleum-derived fuels for applications where a low-energy-density fuel like ethanol is inappropriate- like airplanes.
 
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