Auto mechanic tools

What they didn't show was that was for a filter and oil change. And I think shop rates just went through the roof.
 
Leave it to BMW to develop multimillion dollar technology to do the job of a 30 dollar shop manual.
 
More dumbing down of mechanics. What ever happened to thinking? Now if you can't get an error code from a fricking computer the mechanics can't fix a car. Now, with this system it shows the mechanic how to do the work.

Sheesh.
 
There are no mechanics in that video. Only the ultimate professional technician who is already unable to do repairs properly. No brains whatsoever required. And even less ability to diagnose a problem.

Now if you can't get an error code from a fricking computer the mechanics can't fix a car.
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Don't get me started. They can't fix it even when they have the code. They don't even try to diagnose anything. The computer gives a vague possible solution and the technician pulls out the parts cannon and starts firing randomly.
 
If I was working flat rate I'd love that thing. Especially the first time doing a job on a model it can save 20 minutes or more in the "figuring out" part of what has to come apart and what doesn't to get to what you need also what tools do I need to bring. Even that few steps back and forth to the box eats an incredible amount of time in the course of a day when you do it for every tool you need.. I can make an extra hour's or more pay on many jobs in that time. Not to mention replacing gaskets and seals that I never needed to open. Third and even second time through a job, not as much of an issue. I'll give you an easy example, 72-79 Trans Am changing the spark plugs. If you didn't know to jack up the front, remove the wheels and go through the wheel wells, you're going to waste a heck of a lot of time and probably dismount the A/C compressor. If you go through the wheel wells you save a bunch of time and effort. If you have a database that tells you how you gain access in the best fashion and what you can remove as an assembly rather than take down to components, you can save a lot of time and unnecessary costs. As far as using the paper manual goes, first you need to take the time and sit and read it first, and then, the instructions are not always that bloody detailed. Many times they say "Remove xxx" and I'm sitting there thinking "Well duh... The question is "How" do I remove it, I know it has to come off, but how do I get to it and which way does it come out? Entire procedures are omitted like "remove motor mount bolts and jack up the engine" Which is what was required to get the starter motor out of a Mustang II with a 2.3, but that piece of information didn't exist in the manuals at that time.
 
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NC Pilot said:
More dumbing down of mechanics. What ever happened to thinking? Now if you can't get an error code from a fricking computer the mechanics can't fix a car. Now, with this system it shows the mechanic how to do the work.

Sheesh.
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Yes, you're damn right about the how. With the job demonstrated, not particularly worth while. But in the long run this could provide a value to the consumer as it may very well reduce the flat rate time of the jobs on the car. You don't pay for the actual time a mechanic works on your car, you pay what the book says in time, and the mechanic gets paid that as well.
Right now, that time on the majority of jobs is high because it allows for "First time figuring it out". On most jobs that I have done twice or more prior, I can beat flat rate 3:1.

As for the "Dumbing down" I don't agree, this is not a diagnostic tool, this is a "HUD Procedure Manual". It's the same as the difference between using a georeferenced GPS vs. paper chart and pilotage. Both of them will get you there, and if you are familiar with the route, you will get there in the same time. If however you are unfamiliar and you fly from landmark to landmark, maybe choose a landmark you can't really see well and you end up going in a circle or the wrong direction for a while, it will take you longer. The mechanic still needs to be smart enough to know what he needs to fix, and this particular tool has no effect on that.
 
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NC Pilot said:
More dumbing down of mechanics. What ever happened to thinking? Now if you can't get an error code from a fricking computer the mechanics can't fix a car. Now, with this system it shows the mechanic how to do the work.

Sheesh.
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Not to laud the direction things are heading, but having worked on cars and bikes (from a 1951 Kaiser Manhattan to a 2008 Jetta / 1949 Harley Suicide to a 2005 Yamaha Roadstar) things have changed quite a bit. Road engines are much more complex than they used to be (a Continental in-line 6 is very easy to fix) but also more reliable on average. The Jetta is a fun little car, but a b*tch to fix.

I think maint has less to do with the dumbing down of mechanics than the complexity increasing. The principles haven't changed, sure, but tolerances are much tighter. Hells bells, my "old school" mechanic won't touch my car in many cases, and he's been working on cars for forty-plus years.

Computers in cars bring benefits, but also troubles.

Now as for this, meh, not big deal. I used microfiche and manuals a lot. That didn't dumb me down.
 
JesseD said:
Road engines are much more complex than they used to be (a Continental in-line 6 is very easy to fix) but also more reliable on average. The Jetta is a fun little car, but a b*tch to fix.

I think maint has less to do with the dumbing down of mechanics than the complexity increasing.
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I can't agree with that.

The new stuff is variations of the older stuff with new components added for assorted reasons. Nothing overly complicated is going on for the most part. It's not like handing a 1900 bicycle mechanic a rocket engine.

The technicians, or at least the companies fixing cars, are chasing the allmighty dollar. The computer says symptom X therefore replace component Y to fix and it will take 29 minutes 18 seconds then charge the customer $Z. If component Y doesn't fix the problem, then replace component W also for additional $$. If the technician stops to think about the 29:18 problem and chases the actual cause for two hours, the hourly profit margin goes to pot and the technician trying to be a mechanic is suddenly in the unemployment line for wasting time.

As long as everything is straightforward with everything else operating properly on basically a new vehicle, that knuckle dragging no brain required fix method works ok. If something else not directly related is at the edge of tolerances, the actual source of the problem can be something totally different. (Ex: If an air sensor isn't operating, is the sensor bad or is the wiring bad or just a dirty plug? Chances are the diagnosis computer will say to replace the computer or sensor even if it's just a bad plug connection) In those situations, the parts cannon starts going off and racking up the repair bill without ever fixing the problem.
 
I can see this sort of tech being used to reduce the quality of the techs working on the cars. Having seen the difference that quality, trained technicians can make to an auto service organization, I know that there are plenty of large, corporate dealer groups (increasingly the auto sales and service model), I am confident some will reduce the compensation to the techs and rely more upon the machines. Bad call.

One shop I know has technicians making solid six-figure annual pay... when asked why he paid so well by a colleague from another dealer, he asked, "Why would I want to have second-rate service?" He hires the best, supports them well (with all diagnostic equipment available, and parts stocked close to each specialists work area, so time is not wasted chasing parts). Recall rate is very low, techs do well, customers are happy and the dealership has a *very* high rate of returning customers. American nameplate, too.
 
PS- No one ever made service manuals as good as those GM used to put out- exceptionally detailed, well-illustrated.
 
I had a friend at Iowa State that was working on Augmented Reality Technology as part of getting his Master's in Computer Engineering. His thinking was that it could be used for simple things such as training for your golf grip/swing as well as processes as detailed as doing surgery.
 
I wish I had that when I took the R1200C apart to do the brake bleed. The manual give you the basic idea of what to parts to remove, but not how to remove them.

And the R850R? Going to put new tires on it. "Remove front wheel". duh. but I found in order to remove the front wheel, you must first unbolt the brake disc, rest it on the axle, then unbolt the brake caliper and zip tie to the fork. Then, bolt the disc back on, and remove wheel. Had the manual said that in the first place, I could have had the wheel off, tire swapped and wheel back on about 35 minutes quicker.

I bet that little 'tool' costs a stinking fortune. I have to have one of these to work on the 'modern' BMW bikes we have and it cost just over 500$.

http://www.hexcode.co.za/

Glad my airheads can be repaired using old school VW parts. :)
 
So, what is the actual real world day to day advantage of this contraption at a shop or dealer?

The first time someone comes in off the street who has zero mechanical knowledge uses it, they can change the oil, radiator or even swap out engines. The second time the same person changes the oil, they can do it without the sunglasses HUD. By the end of the month, they can do it in their sleep. If they fix something else they haven't done before, it's another relatively short learning curve. If it's just to keep the technician from chasing tools and parts, a computer could easily printout a checklist with the proper tool and parts list to be collected and put next to the vehicle before starting the work.

Training tool, yes. Compete with mcdonalds for low wage unskilled workers or a turnover rate that is between extreme and silly, yes. A day to day tool for someone with decent wrenching skills, no.

The advantage I see is this being the first step in designing a robot that can do all the maintenance. Roll the vehicle into the shop and the robot switches out parts in a few minutes and it's done. Other than that, it appears to be one of those many things that are designed and done by R&D operations just because it can be done.

I'm just not seeing this being overly useful beyond the initial learning curve.
 
This thing does absolutely nothing with regards to mechanical skill. There is way more being a good mechanic than knowing the best procedure. First you have to diagnose the problem for what procedure you actually need, then you need to know how to use the tools correctly. What this is is simply a shop manual that works in a HUD fashion.

If one considers a paper manual "training wheels for baby mechanics", ok, then these are too. I call them an efficiency improver for professional mechanics. It's all about saving minutes. When a pro mechanic saves minutes off of book rate, he raises his pay rate because he can be getting paid to do two and even three jobs at the same time. Consider this, you finish a 3 hr book job in an hour, you're still getting paid on that job for 2 hrs when you finish. You start the next 3 hr job and you are being paid on them both. Finish in an hour, still being paid on that job as well. Start a Third 3 hr job and for the first hour of that, I am still being paid for the previous two jobs at the same time. If my wage is $20hr, I have effectively increased it to $60hr by working smart and fast. There are 2 things that kill you for time as a mechanic. Figuring out procedure/unnecessary procedure and broken/stripped/damaged fasteners. This type of device can go a long way to reducing the first type of loss.

Eventually, if these units cause a large disparity to show between "book time" and "real time" in average completion times of the job, the book will be adjusted.

This device does nothing in the way of diagnosing which procedure to use, it just has a database of procedures just like any other manual, and hopefully gives you a tool list to go to the job with so you don't need to waste time and effort going back to your box, or extricating yourself from an awkward position that it took 3 minutes and 4 cuts to get yourself into.

For all that disparage this tool, please, get rid of all your electronic information devices, because that is all this thing is, and if electronic information devices "ruin" the standards of personnel in one occupation, the same must apply to all occupations.
 
fgcason said:
So, what is the actual real world day to day advantage of this contraption at a shop or dealer?

The first time someone comes in off the street who has zero mechanical knowledge uses it, they can change the oil, radiator or even swap out engines. The second time the same person changes the oil, they can do it without the sunglasses HUD. By the end of the month, they can do it in their sleep. If they fix something else they haven't done before, it's another relatively short learning curve. If it's just to keep the technician from chasing tools and parts, a computer could easily printout a checklist with the proper tool and parts list to be collected and put next to the vehicle before starting the work.

Training tool, yes. Compete with mcdonalds for low wage unskilled workers or a turnover rate that is between extreme and silly, yes. A day to day tool for someone with decent wrenching skills, no.

The advantage I see is this being the first step in designing a robot that can do all the maintenance. Roll the vehicle into the shop and the robot switches out parts in a few minutes and it's done. Other than that, it appears to be one of those many things that are designed and done by R&D operations just because it can be done.
I'm just not seeing this being overly useful beyond the initial learning curve.
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It's not really, that is what it is for, to teach "best method" the first time you do a particular job on a particular model. The incentive for the shop there is a 66% reduction in time required on the first time runs at a job increasing that mechanics productivity for the day which increases shop profits. It also helps prevent the removal of "gotcha" fasteners that you didn't have to remove where the entire assembly that didn't need to come apart, just has to move out of the way, flies apart and springs and check balls have gone flying across the shop and the 2hr book job turns into 7hrs of actual time because "it looked like that bolt had to come out". That's 5 hrs of lost shop time that the shop has to eat, that's $500 or more in the case of BMW. That is why this system was developed, to increase productivity and control loses in the initial learning curve for each job, and those losses are significant. I may lose a coffee break as I sit down and read through the manual on a new job, but that's ok with me, I'd rather have the extra 20 minutes of pay, I can sip my coffee as I work, I don't get paid for reading the manual. It also saves me the "stare at it" time in which I am figuring out best procedure, also which I am not paid for.
 
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In principle, I'm with Henning on this one. However, I am curious as to the true ROI. I bet it ain't cheap and I wonder about the amount of content available.

Heck, even glasses that allow a HUD and digital page-turning of the manual would be a nice interim step.

Have you ever seen those volt-meters or o-'scopes with HUD glasses? Those seem pretty useful.
 
How am I the only one that's really excited about this? Imagine this, for home use....no need to go get reamed everytime something small breaks on your car.

Should also point out that this doesn't appear to diagnose, but merely give step by step in how to fix what has already been diagnosed. I see it as nothing more than a more graphical Haynes manual.
 
Another thought - I wonder why the augmented reality needs to use those fancy animated solid model graphics. I guess it more easily allows active scaling based on position of the glasses relative to the workspace; however I'd be happy with a video in the HUD glasses I could control with voice commands.
 
SkyHog said:
How am I the only one that's really excited about this? Imagine this, for home use....no need to go get reamed everytime something small breaks on your car.

Should also point out that this doesn't appear to diagnose, but merely give step by step in how to fix what has already been diagnosed. I see it as nothing more than a more graphical Haynes manual.
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Exactly what it is, a manual in a HUD format, that's all it is. It is merely an electronically updated format of the same manuals that have developed over the history of technology and the written word. This replaces no ability at all, it merely is updating a database into a digital direct visual format that can be used in real time rather than time delay. I'm all for it if they did them correctly.

It will be interesting to see how these fare with the consumer/home mechanic market. I think initially at least this level of model will be pricey. It's like code readers for cars. Lots of people have the $20 ones from Pep Boys or O'Reiley's or Auto Zone.... Pros have a Snap On box which is several thousand dollars plus databases and updates every year more or less. I think eventually there will be a similar consumer grade product and I think they will be as useful and frustrating as a $20 code reader.
 
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