ATT Tracker vs Spot Tracker

Piloto

Piloto

Line Up and Wait
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Piloto
I just subscribed to the ATT Family Map cell phone tracker. Unlike the Spot tracker the ATT tracker works inside buildings and anywhere within ATT worldwide coverage. Accuracy is better when in view of the open sky. I opted for ATT since I already have an IPhone and do not need to carry a second device for tracking function. You can also track all the phones on your account for the same rate ($9/month). Of course you have internet, phone, GPS navigation and weather capability with the Iphone that yo do not have with the Spot.

On another subject there is on going development by cell phone providers to provide the service from unmanned airships above 50,000ft to remote areas or to reduce the number of cell towers on the ground. A single airship can eliminate the need for 100 towers and provide a more uniform coverage. This will also allow airborne cell phones to work in-flight as well as on the ground providing a higher data rate. This will allow you to receive weather data in-flight in the same fashion as WX\XM or ADS-B. It can make both systems obsolete before 2020. See more at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratellite

José
 
Will the AT&T tracker also work internationally as long as it has a tower to connect to or just an AT&T tower? If international works, do international data roaming rates apply? That would be a non starter for me if it does, they kill me with those. :(
 
Cell phone tracking. It will bring some good, but I also predict both crime and government intrusion. We shall see.
 
> there is on going development by cell phone providers to provide the
> service from unmanned airships above 50,000ft

No. The work is not being done by the cellphone companies.

The "work" is being done by Stratellite, Northrop Grumman, MAV6 and others. All
have have been pitching this concept to cellcos, broadcasters and DoD for years.

MAV6's Blue Devil 2 is the most recent failure. They were heavy on fundraising,
lobbying and hiring of retired, very senior Generals. Sadly; they didn't spend enough
on their engineers. BD2 leaked like a sieve. A mighty fundamental thing to get wrong
when designing an airship.

Next up, Northrop w/their LEM-V airship. At least it inflates and is tied to a tether at
Lakehurst, NJ. First flight is planned for June.

Stratellite has a terrific color glossy. A very convincing model. A good
pitch. Okay lobbying ... and needs more fundraising to build something
that should fly, errr, float. Then there is the matter of their science. For
a single Stratellite to replace hundreds of cell towers, will require a lot of
VERY high-tech synthetic aperture antennas and precision INS gear to
keep the antennas aimed. All this gear adds weight and power load ... and
at 50k feet, they still have to deal with wx, winds. Then there is the
matter of night time. That means batteries. Ugh. I would not invest my
lunch money in Statellite.
 
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Henning said:
Data rate for a US AT&T account is the same when using your device in Europe? Can anyone confirm that?
Click to expand...

No, International data rates vary but they are VERY expensive.
 
you have to have a cell signal though, right? that is a non starter for me. the whole reason I got a spot tracker was because i wanted people to see where I was flying through the air where i don't get a signal and where i landed, which is very likely somewhere with no signal.
 
Sac Arrow said:
No, International data rates vary but they are VERY expensive.
Click to expand...

That agrees with my experience as well and as of 2 years ago when I was looking there was no one that was immune to it which is why I go with T-Mobile and their "full phone usage" on wifi. My phone rings and calls as well as all data functions under standard plan prices over wifi anywhere in the world.

If AT&T had come out with an international data plan with home rates in Europe, that would indeed be newsworthy to me.
 
Henning said:
Data rate for a US AT&T account is the same when using your device in Europe? Can anyone confirm that?
Click to expand...

No, it's HUGELY expensive even if you get one of their int'l data plans.
 
SPOT is an interesting re-use of satellites that utterly failed in their original primary mission. They were intended as competition to Motorola's Iridium.

One component on board all of them failed. All built identical. Component had a flaw. High power transponder, dead.

Low power low-bandwidth (read: low data speed) transponders re-tasked from satellite to satellite telco hand-off messaging to bounce SPOT data through. Recoup a fraction of the billions lost to the main transponder failures, system wide.

There's big coverage gaps way up north in SPOT. (Read: Alaska) The constellation pattern wasn't designed for the job it's now accomplishing at lower latitudes.

Interesting high-stakes games in the satellite biz. WAAS satellite failed too -- what was it, last year? Moved another bird into place while the other drifted out of its orbital slot. I think last I heard they managed to recover the original bird or at least get control of it.

And the backup WAAS bird last I checked was having budgetary issues. Maybe they got it launched by now. Haven't read the satellite news in a while.

There's some truly brainy and interesting stories surrounding various "rescues" of satellites that missed going where they were supposed to in that biz. I believe the failed Dish Network launch a couple of years ago was saved by some fancy orbital math and a trip around the moon, if I remember right.
 
denverpilot said:
There's big coverage gaps way up north in SPOT. (Read: Alaska) The constellation pattern wasn't designed for the job it's now accomplishing at lower latitudes.
Click to expand...

Since 2008, AK coverage has been 100% for SPOT. They are used extensively by government workers and guides.
The whole Globalstar network will be back up shortly, as they've put up 18 new birds in the last year, and another 6 go up soon.

I've had a SPOT since day 1, and love it. I'm a big Smart Phone advocate, but can't imagine using one to replace my SPOT... the battery life won't pack it. Plus, the "Rescue" system, and $100K Search and Rescue insurance are icing on the cake.
 
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Interesting. Yeah I'm definitely way behind on my tech reading self-generated queue/wanderings. Totally missed that Globalstar is reviving themselves.

Lucrative market. U.S. Military makes up a huge percentage of the Iridium user base. I can see why Globalstar wants to be able to bid.

I track this stuff both for entertainment and also to make educated guesses at who's going to have interesting changes in their financials in future quarters.
 
denverpilot said:
Interesting. Yeah I'm definitely way behind on my tech reading self-generated queue/wanderings. Totally missed that Globalstar is reviving themselves.

Lucrative market. U.S. Military makes up a huge percentage of the Iridium user base. I can see why Globalstar wants to be able to bid.

I track this stuff both for entertainment and also to make educated guesses at who's going to have interesting changes in their financials in future quarters.
Click to expand...


Globalstar burned too many bridges IMO selling crap service. They'll have to pull Jesus out of their azzes before I ever set to sea with their equipment again.
 
Miniaturization of V-Sat equipment is what I'd like to see, or better yet C-band gear so I don't get screwed by weather when I'm most likely to need it.

If you want Sat Com gear that can get store forward messages out in any conditions the INMARSAT-C system is pretty slick and runs an omnidirectional antenna. I have no idea what hardware outside of GMDSS console stuff there is. Perhaps AOPA could lobby IMO/GMDSS to run a SPOT-TRACKER type program over their system because I know that it's way underutilized. Mini M and Stratus pretty much made that obsolete for the use load originally thought with e-mail capacity.
 
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Henning said:
Miniaturization of V-Sat equipment is what I'd like to see.
Click to expand...

Henning. It's off topic but Id be curious if you know what radio system they're using up in the Bering Sea on the fishing boats on Deadliest Catch.

Best I've been able to figure out from catching glimpses of the radio panels is some older SEA 220 MHz trunking system. (Besides the usual Marine band stuff.)

I'm assuming the trunking controllers and repeaters are on the island chain out there. They have to be close enough to use them? Or is it satellite based?

Also curious about their chart plotters. They all seem to be able to see each other all over the Bering Sea so I'm assuming a data setup via that same trunked radio system or satellite.

I kinda chuckle when the TV show makes a big deal about their "secret" fishing areas. They're all watching each other 100-200 or more miles away on the chart plotter screens. ;) Fake TV drama is always funny to spot.

I also noticed when Johnathan on the F/V Time Bandit reached around behind a radio and disconnected the coax so he could "sneak up" on the F/V Northwestern to launch their little fireworks barrage at them once. But I couldn't make out the radio manufacturer or model in the quick low-light video shot. Proof that Sig would easily see them coming from behind to alongside on their track on his chart plotter if they hadn't pulled the cable.

(Yeah, I know. Get a life. I like spotting that kinda stuff on TV and in movies.)
 
Everybody in the maritime world is using V-Sat for for main broadband and satcoms and Fleet Broadband, an INMARSAT service for back up.

Those boats are either talking on VHF or SSB radios and if they have satcoms will likely be Fleet systems of low utilization and primarily voice due to costs and likely have an Irridum for a backup. For Service above and below 70* double SSB is still preferred even by GMDSS.
 
rainsux said:
> there is on going development by cell phone providers to provide the
> service from unmanned airships above 50,000ft

No. The work is not being done by the cellphone companies.

The "work" is being done by Stratellite, Northrop Grumman, MAV6 and others. All
have have been pitching this concept to cellcos, broadcasters and DoD for years.

MAV6's Blue Devil 2 is the most recent failure. They were heavy on fundraising,
lobbying and hiring of retired, very senior Generals. Sadly; they didn't spend enough
on their engineers. BD2 leaked like a sieve. A mighty fundamental thing to get wrong
when designing an airship.

Next up, Northrop w/their LEM-V airship. At least it inflates and is tied to a tether at
Lakehurst, NJ. First flight is planned for June.

Stratellite has a terrific color glossy. A very convincing model. A good
pitch. Okay lobbying ... and needs more fundraising to build something
that should fly, errr, float. Then there is the matter of their science. For
a single Stratellite to replace hundreds of cell towers, will require a lot of
VERY high-tech synthetic aperture antennas and precision INS gear to
keep the antennas aimed. All this gear adds weight and power load ... and
at 50k feet, they still have to deal with wx, winds. Then there is the
matter of night time. That means batteries. Ugh. I would not invest my
lunch money in Statellite.
Click to expand...

Here http://www.gizmag.com/lockheed-martin-hale-d-airship/19360/ is a serious contender with plenty of experience on the subject. I remember back in the early 60's the same argument you made but about satellite communications.

BTW the reason for spot beam antennas on the satellites is due to distance. On a space satellite the signal path loss for a 22,000 miles (geostationary orbit) is 185db vs 142 db for an airship at 150 miles. On an airship you can use the same antennas used on the cell towers. BTW do you know that GPS satellites has no spot beam antennas.

As for night time even the satellites have to deal with it, specially those in low orbits (LEO). The airships advantage is because of their size they can deploy huge photo cell arrays that satellites can not.

As for winds. As you get above 52,000 in the subtropical latitudes there is little wind activity. The higher you go the less wind since you are getting closer to space.

José
 
Piloto said:
Here http://www.gizmag.com/lockheed-martin-hale-d-airship/19360/ is a serious contender with plenty of experience on the subject. I remember back in the early 60's the same argument you made but about satellite communications.

BTW the reason for spot beam antennas on the satellites is due to distance. On a space satellite the signal path loss for a 22,000 miles (geostationary orbit) is 185db vs 142 db for an airship at 150 miles. On an airship you can use the same antennas used on the cell towers. BTW do you know that GPS satellites has no spot beam antennas.

As for night time even the satellites have to deal with it, specially those in low orbits (LEO). The airships advantage is because of their size they can deploy huge photo cell arrays that satellites can not.

As for winds. As you get above 52,000 in the subtropical latitudes there is little wind activity. The higher you go the less wind since you are getting closer to space.

José
Click to expand...

You forgot the biggest advantage of airship vs. satellite from the user perspective, latency. Latency is what caused me more issues than anything else especially when the boss needed the VPN and the weather was bad, made it nearly impossible. All the techs from everybody said "Sorry, it's an inherent problem everyone has.", nobody had a fix that worked.
 
Henning said:
You forgot the biggest advantage of airship vs. satellite from the user perspective, latency. Latency is what caused me more issues than anything else especially when the boss needed the VPN and the weather was bad, made it nearly impossible. All the techs from everybody said "Sorry, it's an inherent problem everyone has.", nobody had a fix that worked.
Click to expand...

You are very right on that. Most noticeable on two way phone conversations. I hate it when both parties start talking at the same time. When this happens I said "over" to listen to the other party. At one time over the North Atlantic I tried the Inmarsat phone with New York Radio, what a mess. I end up calling them on HF.

José
 
Piloto said:
You are very right on that. Most noticeable on two way phone conversations. I hate it when both parties start talking at the same time. When this happens I said "over" to listen to the other party. At one time over the North Atlantic I tried the Inmarsat phone with New York Radio, what a mess. I end up calling them on HF.

José
Click to expand...


People who aren't used to Satcoms are usually in for a rude awakening when they start using them. When I make an important call on the sat set I start off with "I'm calling on a satellite telephone, everything I say is a second or so ago and everything you say takes the same to get back, so take your time to wait for pauses."
 
I carried one of the SPOT devices for a couple of years around the globe. It very seldom worked anywhere I went. In the US, not much of a problem, but most other places, no hits.
 
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