ATP written

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p1l0t

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p1l0t
OK so I have ~1,020 hours and I'm thinking it might be time to start studying for that ATP written. Any suggestions on good courses/readings?

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Sheppard Air

Don't let their website discourage you from researching their course further. The site looks like it was designed by a 12 year old in the mid 90's but the course itself is really good.
 
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I've heard a lot of guys use the Sheppard Air program, and I've never heard a bad word about it. I, personally, used the the ASA prepware CD. It wasn't bad, wasn't great...it got me through, that's about all I can say for it.
 
i also used the ASA CD. Probably the same one Teller used. It got the job done.
 
I recommend a three-day school.], based on my own experience. The test covers areas that are not within your day-to-day work knowledge and thus requires rote memorization. Don't even try to do it yourself.

Bob Gardner
 
Sheppard Air worked for my ATP written. But I wouldn't worry about it until you get a lot closer to the 1,500 hours. The study with Sheppard Air is a week at most.
 
bobmrg said:
I recommend a three-day school.], based on my own experience. The test covers areas that are not within your day-to-day work knowledge and thus requires rote memorization. Don't even try to do it yourself.
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Amen, Brother Bob. I went with APS when I did it a long time ago. Two days of training, test next day, passed with a 90-something. Can't seem to find them, however -- maybe they're gone.
 
There are some schools in CT and long Island that offer similar 3 day courses. Someone told me you can take the checkride at 1250 you just can't exercise it till 1500 or something.. MEI is still my next priority but no written for that one.

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Sheppard Air

I can still remember the gouge far better than some of the BS you study on that test...you will almost feel bad when you are done in 20 mins.
 
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i used sheppard..... loved it. they even make fun of the test while you study for it. funny stuff.

better take it quickly, i hear the question database is changing rapidly.

also, they have a 90% money back guaruntee which means since i got an 88, i got my money back! :) free study software! :)
 
ntbjounin said:
i used sheppard..... loved it. they even make fun of the test while you study for it. funny stuff.

better take it quickly, i hear the question database is changing rapidly.

also, they have a 90% money back guaruntee which means since i got an 88, i got my money back! :) free study software! :)
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LOL really? How much is it?

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taters said:
Sheppard Air

I can still remember the gouge far better than some of the BS you study on that test...you will almost feel bad when you are done in 20 mins.
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You know how it works.. its a pay to play type of deal. That is how all pyramid scams work. Pay for each new level, its almost like sceintology. For the paycut I am going to take when I want to fly jets they should be paying me. ;)

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Can't understand why anyone would take a 2-3 day course for hundreds of dollars and all that time when Sheppardair guarantees you will pass for 75 bux.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Sheppard Air

Don't let their website discourage you from researching their course further. The site looks like it was designed by a 12 year old in the mid 90's but the course itself is really good.
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If you're looking to take the ATP written, definitely go with Sheppard Air. I used their software to study and got a 99% on the written exam this morning. Now I'm using them to study for the ADX (Dispatcher) written.

Their customer support is also excellent. 24/7 with really knowledgeable people on the other line.
 
Thanks all almost 1100 as it is going for my MEI after I file my taxes (if I don't owe too much) and then time for that ATP. Probably start studying now for the written. (between my grad classes)

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I just studied the Gleim book. Worked for me. I like the way the Gleim books present the material.
 
p1l0t said:
There are some schools in CT and long Island that offer similar 3 day courses. Someone told me you can take the checkride at 1250 you just can't exercise it till 1500 or something.. MEI is still my next priority but no written for that one.

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Nope.


§ 61.159 Aeronautical experience: Airplane category rating.

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(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c), and (d) of this section, a person who is applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category and class rating must have at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least:


There are some exceptions a few paragraphs down, but nowhere does it say you can take the ride at 1250.
 
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GCA319 said:
Nope.


§ 61.159 Aeronautical experience: Airplane category rating.

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(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c), and (d) of this section, a person who is applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category and class rating must have at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least:


There are some exceptions a few paragraphs down, but nowhere does it say you can take the ride at 1250.
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No not 1250, its 1200 actually despite what I said before. 61.159(d) says quote unquote that an applicant can be issued an ATP certificate endorsed with the fact that the holder does not meet the ICAO requirements if they have 1200hrs with less than 50% SIC.

Not part of 61.159(d):

You can then go to the FSDO when you hit 1500 and have that endorsement removed.

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p1l0t said:
No not 1250, its 1200 actually despite what I said before. 61.159(d) says quote unquote that an applicant can be issued an ATP certificate endorsed with the fact that the holder does not meet the ICAO requirements if they have 1200hrs with less than 50% SIC.

Not part of 61.159(d):

You can then go to the FSDO when you hit 1500 and have that endorsement removed.

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I don't see it in MY version of the FAR. Until you can provide an accurate reference I have to believe that you cannot be issued an ATP with less than 1500 hours,.
 
p1l0t said:
No not 1250, its 1200 actually despite what I said before. 61.159(d) says quote unquote that an applicant can be issued an ATP certificate endorsed with the fact that the holder does not meet the ICAO requirements if they have 1200hrs with less than 50% SIC.

Not part of 61.159(d):

You can then go to the FSDO when you hit 1500 and have that endorsement removed.
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FAR 61.159 was revised in Aug 2009 and no longer includes this provision. It used to read:

(d) An applicant may be issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the endorsement, “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,” as prescribed by Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant:
(1) Credits second-in-command or flight-engineer time under paragraph (c) of this section toward the 1,500 hours total flight time requirement of paragraph (a) of this section;
(2) Does not have at least 1,200 hours of flight time as a pilot, including no more than 50 percent of his or her second-in-command time and none of his or her flight-engineer time; and
(3) Otherwise meets the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section.
(e) When the applicant specified in paragraph (d) of this section presents satisfactory evidence of the accumulation of 1,200 hours of flight time as a pilot including no more than 50 percent of his or her second-in-command flight time and none of his or her flight-engineer time, the applicant is entitled to an airline transport pilot certificate without the endorsement prescribed in that paragraph.
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It now reads:

(d) An applicant is issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the limitation, “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,” as prescribed under Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant does not meet the ICAO requirements contained in Annex 1 “Personnel Licensing” to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, but otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of this section.

(e) An applicant is entitled to an airline transport pilot certificate without the ICAO limitation specified under paragraph (d) of this section when the applicant presents satisfactory evidence of having met the ICAO requirements under paragraph (d) of this section and otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of this section.
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My emphasis in bold.
 
Yeah but your emphasis in bold is under the WITHOUT the limitation section..

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p1l0t said:
Yeah but your emphasis in bold is under the WITHOUT the limitation section..
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Reading the Aug 2009 version of the reg I am still unsure how one would go about obtaining an ATP with less than 1500 hours total time. Let me change my emphasis to subpara d.

(d) An applicant is issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the limitation, “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,” as prescribed under Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant does not meet the ICAO requirements contained in Annex 1 “Personnel Licensing” to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, but otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of this section.
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The aeronautical experience of 61.159 specifies 1500 hrs total time.
 
The limitation is they don't meet the hour requirement for TT, otherwise they have to meet the rest. That's my interpretation but has the FAA done an interpretation on this?

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p1l0t said:
The limitation is they don't meet the hour requirement for TT, otherwise they have to meet the rest. That's my interpretation but has the FAA done an interpretation on this?
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See FSIMS 8400.10, Ch. 2, paragraph 57. You must meet the aeronautical experience requirements of 61.159 regardless (including 1500 hours total time). The FAA allows you to credit all of your SIC time toward the 1500 hour requirement. ICAO only allows 50% of your SIC time, combined with your PIC and Dual time to meet the ICAO 1200 hour requirement of Annex 1. So if your PIC + Dual + 50% of SIC time does not exceed 1200 hours you will have an ICAO restriction on your certificate. You still must meet the 1500 hour requirement of 61.159 to obtain an FAA issued ATP certificate.

57. ICAO RESTRICTIONS. The flight time requirements for an ATP certificate with an airplane category rating are more restrictive under the ICAO standards than those under FAR Part 61. An applicant may meet the requirements described in paragraph 55 of this section and be eligible for a U.S. ATP certificate, but not meet the ICAO requirements. In this case, an ICAO restriction must be placed on the applicants ATP certificate. A determination of whether an applicant meets the ICAO requirements does not have to be made until the temporary certificate is issued. It is convenient for inspectors to make the ICAO determination, however, when the determination of eligibility for the knowledge test is being made. An inspector who makes the determination of eligibility for a knowledge test should also determine if an ICAO restriction is required. Information concerning the ICAO determination should be entered on the ATP-Knowledge Qualifications Job Aid and given to the applicant to present to the inspector issuing the temporary certificate. Inspectors shall indicate on the ATP-Knowledge Qualifications Job Aid whether any ICAO restriction is required. The inspector shall date and sign the job aid, and give it to the applicant. The inspector shall explain the IACO restrictions and inform the applicant that the job aid should be presented to the inspector or examiner who completes the certification and issues the temporary certificate. If the applicant fails to present the signed job aid, the applicants logbooks will have to resubmitted before a temporary certificate can be issued. There are two circumstances in which an ICAO restriction must be added to an applicants ATP certificate:

A. The first circumstance requiring an ICAO restriction is when the applicant uses SIC or FE time to meet the 1,500 total pilot hour requirement. The restriction is required when the total of the applicants PIC time (see paragraph 55A, first bullet) and 50 percent of the SIC time (see paragraph 55A, third bullet) does not exceed 1,200 hours. In this case, the restriction placed on the certificate must be, Holder does not meet the pilot flight experience requirements of ICAO. The following is an example of how to compute whether this restriction is required:

FAA ICAO
PIC = 800 hrs 800 hrs
SIC = 700 hrs X 50% = 350hrs
1,500 1,150
(ICAO restriction required)

B. The second circumstance requiring an ICAO restriction is when an applicant has less than 150 actual PIC hours. In this case, the restriction placed on the certificate must be, Holder does not meet the PIC flight experience requirement of ICAO. See paragraph 55B.
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